to the household of god, israel, and those who go with... may you all have peace!.
from time to time the issue of how to fulfill the "form of worship that is acceptable to god," mentioned by james in his letter, namely, looking after widows and orphans "in their tribulation"... comes up.
given the issue of tithing, the plethora of institutionalized charity choices, and the existence of ones in need, perhaps in our own households and families... but certainly in our towns, countries... and around the world... how does one fulfill this requirement?
EP:
It's not the right way to hold a conversation, from any side.
Quite a few here have done very well at NOT rising to the baiting and taunting.
They let the little "slights" and "insults" and "wrong words used" pass on by.......
But some still need to argue EVERY ITTY BITTY POINT. For whatever reason - Attention? Ego? Need to be right on every itty bitty point?
Too bad.....this was an interesting topic.
An interesting passage from what I read today:
( While Jim Jones was on a sabbatical in Brazil, a pastor named Malmin stood in for him in Indianapolis. )
"Every time Malmin pointed out a personality flaw or trait indicating mental illness or emotional instability,Jones would rationalize his own behavior. On home turf again, Jones exhibited peculiarities that had been largely hidden in Brazil. he deceived and manipulated people; he showed some signs of tyranny; he encouraged his congregations' adoration.
The combination of domination and submission, crticism and adulation, was not accidental; Malmin could see that Jones was setting himself as an oracle. Whenever soemone took a position contrary to his, Jones would take the extraordinary step of critisizning the person publicly, of accusing the person of going against God. To support his contention, he would say The Lord told him this or that, or it was revealed to him by Holy Spirit."
It is as some have pointed out, the beginnings of a cult are quite benign and subtle. And in the beginning, those who point out inconsistencies are ridiculed. Malmin was an exception, most of those closely associated with Jones, refused to call him on these behaviors, even when they knew it was wrong. As one of them said, "I never thought I would be a part of something that needs to lie to justify the means."........but he didn't leave or stand up to Jones.
The author notes, that by saying nothing, it amounted to tacit endorsement of Jones, and important information regarding him and his behavior was withheld from his followers to keep them obedient and lapping up every word Jones uttered.
I'm just in the midst of reading "Raven - The Untold Story of Jim Jones and his People".
He took many years to perfect his "persona". He was one way when he was recruiting and preaching to his followers and a totally different way in real life.
At an early age, the book says:
"...he was an actor and a con man. He had cultivated the knack not only for perceiving what people wanted to hear, but also for saying it with a performer's timing......He possessed the self-assurance, imagination, and theatrical ability to fabricate, fantasize or bend a thought or story to suit his needs."
"Although he solicited comments from his followers, they allowed him to scold them. It was clear he was doing their work for them, digesting the material, distilling it, presenting it. Jim was particularlly pleased when they were inquisitive; it meant they were paying attention."
"Helping the disadvantaged was put forth as foremost, but under that was a personal need to be admired, loved and lauded by the crowds."
"Like a little boy who hauled his pets everywhere, he kept his religious flock together; their familiar faces and sheer strength of their numbers helped dispel his own insecurity and create the proper atmosphere for his miraculous sleight of hand."
"....he projected a kind of "us against them" view of the world....but there was another tone as well - that of the petulant, egotistical man impatient with the inattentive, pleased when he had the audience firmly under his control.....He would shout, mockingly secure in his own power, "Either you endure sound doctrine when I preach it, or you don't hear it!"
"Early on, he had grasped an important lesson: an image could serve as well as or better than reality. Religious people, with their eyes and minds on the heavens and their hearts open, were more susceptible to a con job and sleight of hand than most people."
"By the summer of 1961, the attacks on Jones had taken a different tone. Perhaps Jones' publicity and his actions had antagonized bigots. More likely, Jones had exaggerated - and even orchestrated - opposition to his efforts in order to make his integration crusade more dramatic and courageous...."
definition: a thought-terminating cliche is a commonly used phrase, sometimes passing as folk wisdom, used to quell cognitive dissonance.. here's mine: we don't believe that way ..... we are christians in this home..
"Jesus told me I'm right and you're wrong."
just by knowing what will happen, that doesn't mean that we can prevent or cause something to happen.
my knowing that does not prevent them the free will of making the choice.. it's the same with god.
if god is not restricted to existence in the present, then the future is known by god because god indwells the future as well as the present and the past.
So, one of the interesting things I noticed on this thread is that when CA suggested I was a drunk, not a single believer jumped in to say that was personal insult was not cool.
It was a cheap shot, for sure.
Accusing someone of posting drunk when they don't agree with you or you don't understand what they're saying, isn't new to the repertoire, though. As you know.
in a discussion with some other dear ones, the question was asked as to what such ones put their faith in.
in response to one comment that"one can't function without faith," another disagreed, stating ones can, that "many do so every day... the ones who have trust" (in things like the sun rising in the east versus the west).
that trust extended to "faith" based "on nature and the natural order of things.
Palm: I have not had my posting privileges censored by the mods, so I feel free to comment as I like!
AGuest: Yet, you wish to deny me the same freedom... and on my own thread. Interesting.
You'll have to show me where I told you that you weren't allowed to post on this thread....??
I have no idea what you're talking about.
The entire rest of your post to me is nothing but you wanting to start a fight by making a bunch of accusations and calling me into question.
All because I dared to post a general comment about posting nicely.
Well, I decline your offer to fight. You are certainly looking for one today.
in a discussion with some other dear ones, the question was asked as to what such ones put their faith in.
in response to one comment that"one can't function without faith," another disagreed, stating ones can, that "many do so every day... the ones who have trust" (in things like the sun rising in the east versus the west).
that trust extended to "faith" based "on nature and the natural order of things.
The thread, no matter who it is "directed" to, is posted on an OPEN discussion forum.
I have not had my posting privileges censored by the mods, so I feel free to comment as I like!
If you would like for me to not comment on any threads you start, maybe you can PM one of the mods to request it and they can let me know?
And your response to my general comment WAS directed to me, specifically....you addressed it to me - Palm - and talked about my motivations at great length.
So, again, I get what you are trying to communicate: that [you need me] to be "nicer"... sweeter... more "graceful." Again, you have folks here that are such, almost to a fault (given how you all go at them)... and that still makes no difference - you don't listen to them, either.
I find it fascinating, though, that you DO need such... from me.
Not everything I do here is about YOU.
But if you felt the general comments about the scripture applied to you, that's fine!
in a discussion with some other dear ones, the question was asked as to what such ones put their faith in.
in response to one comment that"one can't function without faith," another disagreed, stating ones can, that "many do so every day... the ones who have trust" (in things like the sun rising in the east versus the west).
that trust extended to "faith" based "on nature and the natural order of things.
Actually, the post regarding the commentary on Col 4:6 was for general consumption and wasn't directed at you.
If I had wanted to direct it specifically to YOU, I would have said so.
(......reading comprehension? LOL)
in a discussion with some other dear ones, the question was asked as to what such ones put their faith in.
in response to one comment that"one can't function without faith," another disagreed, stating ones can, that "many do so every day... the ones who have trust" (in things like the sun rising in the east versus the west).
that trust extended to "faith" based "on nature and the natural order of things.
AGuest: I am telling you the TRUTH.
Is it the truth?
Or is it your opinion?
How do you know?
Just asking.
in a discussion with some other dear ones, the question was asked as to what such ones put their faith in.
in response to one comment that"one can't function without faith," another disagreed, stating ones can, that "many do so every day... the ones who have trust" (in things like the sun rising in the east versus the west).
that trust extended to "faith" based "on nature and the natural order of things.
An interesting commentary on this scripture:
"Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that ye may know how ye ought to answer every man." Col. 4:6
Before your speech can be "always with grace," you need grace in your heart.
"A good man out of the good treasure of his heart bringeth forth that which is good; and an evil man out of the evil treasure of his heart bringeth forth that which is evil: for of the abundance of the heart his mouth speaketh." Luke 6:45
1. A person who says kind things, has a kind heart.
2. A person who says negative things, has a negative heart.
3. A person who says mean things, has a mean heart.
How can we speak with grace?
1. Determine, with God's help, to control our tongue.
2. Remember our own accountability.
"But I say unto you, every idle word that men shall speak, they shall give account thereof in the day of judgment." Mt. 12:3
"Set a watch, O Lord, keep the door of my lips" Ps. 141:3-7
Our words, what we say, tells so much about us!
