Posts by Heaven

The first steps to resolving any problem are to accept there is a problem and identify what the problem is. I sure hope she can move on to the next steps or she'll be miserable her entire life.

8

JWs- “SCIENCE IS A DISTRACTION TO MY FAITH"

by Giles Gray in

“after our discussion last week i asked myself ‘do i need to go into the depth of science to make sure of what i believe’, and my answer was that i don’t need to go into science because science would be a distraction to what i already know with my faith…”the above is a quote from a conversation i had with two jws who called on me at the weekend.

i knew that the standards of the jws had declined, but what i experienced the weekend really highlighted that fact and it was quite a surprised.amazingly they came back, but this time i had the presence of mind to record the entire visit which is really going to help me examine how these people think.they were coming back on the topic of the evidence of evolution and how this contradicts their interpretation of the bible.

i had sent them an email that dealt with the topic of nature’s vestiges and i asked them to explain the biological atavisms that occur in whales and humans.

Heaven

Giles said: I was surprised they didnt know that dolphins can't breath underwater though. Most children would have known that.

Perhaps this lack of Scientific knowledge is more common than we realize.

A couple of years ago, I had a conversation with a couple of Christians. Their lack of basic Scientific knowledge was quite surprising. For example, they did not know what the Earth would be like if there was no sun. Now they live in the Northern Hemisphere of this planet and have definitely experienced winter. These were the same Christians that told me I was taking the order of creation in Genesis "out of context" when I pointed out that the Bible states plants, soil, water, and an atmosphere were all here on the Earth before the sun was created. This is not possible. When I asked them to explain how I was taking those scriptures out of context, they could not.

In the video, right at the end of the discussion, Woody Harrelson's character walks away and flips Matthew McConaughey's character the bird. This is the type of response one receives from believers when logic and reason are unable to be overruled. Belief and faith are highly based on emotional ideals, instead of reality, facts, logic, and reason.

8

JWs- “SCIENCE IS A DISTRACTION TO MY FAITH"

by Giles Gray in

“after our discussion last week i asked myself ‘do i need to go into the depth of science to make sure of what i believe’, and my answer was that i don’t need to go into science because science would be a distraction to what i already know with my faith…”the above is a quote from a conversation i had with two jws who called on me at the weekend.

i knew that the standards of the jws had declined, but what i experienced the weekend really highlighted that fact and it was quite a surprised.amazingly they came back, but this time i had the presence of mind to record the entire visit which is really going to help me examine how these people think.they were coming back on the topic of the evidence of evolution and how this contradicts their interpretation of the bible.

i had sent them an email that dealt with the topic of nature’s vestiges and i asked them to explain the biological atavisms that occur in whales and humans.

Heaven

Giles, well done!

What a great way to face the challenge of evidence that disproves their belief. Don’t even bother looking at it just in case it contradicts what they already believe.

Religion is ignorance, delusion, and intellectual dishonestly. I see no redeeming qualities in this.

Edited to add this excerpt from True Detective about Religion. It's spot on from what I have observed:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_RfUj09pWfM

18

Christians made me stop believing in the Bible

by jws in

i'm agnostic.

there could be a god, but i don't believe it's the god described in the bible.i grew up a jw believing in the bible.

after i left, i didn't want religion but was determined to be a christian on my own.. but things started to unravel.

Heaven

Spiral said: @Heaven: I used to wonder the same thing as a kid! Still do, if you think about it, the whole preaching to the entire earth is really just chasing your tail (mathmatically) because the longer you wait for "the end" the more people there are to preach too. You could never catch up.

Exactly! In addition, there are indigenous people living in remote, wild areas on this planet that we are just discovering. I am sure there are others we don't know about and may never know about. So, for all time, these people have lived without any 'preaching' (lucky peeps) and have survived quite well. Any pictures I've seen of these people they definitely do NOT look Christian.

18

Christians made me stop believing in the Bible

by jws in

i'm agnostic.

there could be a god, but i don't believe it's the god described in the bible.i grew up a jw believing in the bible.

after i left, i didn't want religion but was determined to be a christian on my own.. but things started to unravel.

Heaven

jws, now, I think I see your problem here. You are being Intellectually Honest. This is a trait that believers must abandon in order to remain 'faithful'. There is no room for logic, reason, truth, or facts in a faith based system.

Growing up as a JW, I had issues with many things not only within the JW religion, but other religions too and the Bible itself. Theodicy was a big one and the misogyny. I was born with a logical mind. So much didn't add up for me including a lot of things having to do with math (eg: JWs claimed to be preaching to all the inhabited Earth. This is false. The math just doesn't add up).

Many Christians I have spoken to, haven't even read the Bible. When you point out some of the nasty scriptures to them, they are shocked (like Judges 19 as baker referenced). They have been maneuvered through the Bible by their religious authorities, who are using the Bible to prop up a religious agenda.

Christians like their blanket of comfort. But when you start asking them questions, they give 'fall back' answers including "you're taking that out of context" and the final one "I'll pray for you". One Christian I was talking to couldn't answer my questions about the order of Creation in Genesis and told me I was taking it out of context. When I asked them to explain how I was doing that, they could not.

Our knowledge has far surpassed the need for Bronze and Iron Age Middle Eastern desert dwellers' superstitions to define our world. What I like about Science is, if you choose not to believe what they are saying, they don't, upon your death, threaten to judge you, and if found unworthy, torture you for all eternity in a burning lake of fire.

16

Today's Text - Jehovah is my helper!

by Divergent in

jw
friends

tuesday, october 18. jehovah is my helper; i will not be afraid.—heb.

13:6.. “people often comment about how happy jehovah’s witnesses are,” says a longtime elder in a developing country.

“they also notice that even poor witnesses are always nicely dressed and appear to be better off than others.” this harmonizes with the promise jesus made to those who put the kingdom first.

Heaven

"Jehovah is my helper"

What a load of clap trap! Jehovah isn't a helper, he's a taker. And I have my Dad's bank statements to prove it.

11

Hello from Still Totally ADD

by Still Totally ADD in

jw
friends

just wanted everyone who knows me to know i am alive and well.

we just sold our house in pa and are about to buy a house on one acre just outside jamestown ny.

our health has been good and we both have good part time jobs.

Heaven

Hi Still Totally ADD...so glad you and your wife are doing well. Sounds like you guys are busy bees doing things that you enjoy. I have several weeds that grow in my yard. There is a big mullein starting. Chickweed, stinging nettle, lambs quarters, dandelion, plantain, purslane, fleabane, white clover, thistle are just a few.

For the first time in my life, I ate dandelion flowers in one of my salads this year. They were quite lovely.

In my yearning to learn about the natural world I have come to realize that 'weeds' are just misunderstood wild plants growing where we humans don't want these particular plants to grow.

114

Jehovah's Witnesses ARE Christians, why do so many ex JW's deny this?

by nicolaou in

jehovah's witnesses accept jesus as christ, the son of god.

they try, in their own way, to live by his teachings and imitate him.

they pray, read the bible and meet together regularly for worship.. i won't minimise any of the harm and damage they cause but for the life of me, i can't see how anyone can credibly deny that they are christians.. why do so many former jws have a problem with this?

Heaven

I have always thought of JWs as pseudo Christians or semi-Christians. I have told people that JWs are actually "Jehovans with a side-order of Christ" as they adopt some of the Christian beliefs but reject others (as in they don't believe in Hell, they don't celebrate his birth, and the others mentioned in this thread such as not taking the emblems, denying the belief in Christ's divinity, and the GB usurping Christ's position as mediator).

19

We are imperfect

by HereIgo in

i can't tell you how many times i have heard this while growing up as a witness.

every time i questioned hypocrisy in the org i was told " well we are imperfect" and its was beyond annoying.

at what point does "imperfect" turn into just not christian?

Heaven

"We are imperfect" to me translates to they have no authority over me. If they attempt to overstep any boundaries, my lawyer and the police will be contacted.