Posts by androb31

280

Jesus.....God or God's son?

by digderidoo in

following on from a post of sacolton's on a recent thread.

i hope he doesn't mind me cutting and pasting it as i want to examine it.. was jesus our god?

consider these two scriptures:.

androb31

Big G, little g.....must be one of those willy nilly deals huh Ren?

280

Jesus.....God or God's son?

by digderidoo in

following on from a post of sacolton's on a recent thread.

i hope he doesn't mind me cutting and pasting it as i want to examine it.. was jesus our god?

consider these two scriptures:.

androb31

Reniaa says:

"not that God calls people god willy nilly hmmm let me see."

Whoa!! Hit the breaks.....say what......God speaks in willy nilly terms? That must be why He has the WT as His spokesman to correct what He says and tell people what He really means when He speaks.

280

Jesus.....God or God's son?

by digderidoo in

following on from a post of sacolton's on a recent thread.

i hope he doesn't mind me cutting and pasting it as i want to examine it.. was jesus our god?

consider these two scriptures:.

androb31

"but to cap it all look to the original psaln 45 if it says it like trinitarians prefer

Your arrows are in the heart of the King's enemies. Your throne, O God, is forever and ever; A scepter of uprightness is the scepter of Your kingdom. You have loved righteousness and hated wickedness; therefore God, your God, has anointed you With the oil of joy above your fellows.

it is said to David so is Jehovah declaring David to be God as well as Jesus? so we have God, Jesus and David as the new trinity?"

HAHAHAHA!!! Come on Reniaa, you can come up with something better than this. A 10 year old reading this passage would realize that this passage had nothing to do with David. Just like Psalms 110:1 "the LORD said to my lord". It's David speaking prophetically about the Lord, nothing to do with David. Why you would use this silly logic to unconvince a trinitarian is beyond me. But, I guess as the old saying goes "if you can't beat em, build a straw man"

3

How to Get an "X" Marked over Your House on the "Territory Map" (no offense intended)

by androb31 in

jw
friends

go to the sunday "public meeting" at your local kingdom hall to share the good news of your religion with them.. ask them if they think jesus' feelings might be hurt when no-one partakes of the wine and bread at his memorial dinner.. attend the yearly "memorial" of the last supper and actually drink the wine.. tell them you know they mean well, but you believe in a god "of love and forgiveness.".

ask them how the "fruits of the spirit" are manifested by current news items regarding jws (take your pick: protecting pedophiles, exjws who go postal after being disfellowshipped and shunned, jw murderers and rapists, etc.

check the jw news page for the latest.).

androb31

Go to the Sunday "Public Meeting" at your local Kingdom Hall to share the good news of your religion with them.

Ask them if they think Jesus' feelings might be hurt when no-one partakes of the wine and bread at his memorial dinner.

Attend the yearly "Memorial" of the Last Supper and actually drink the wine.

Tell them you know they mean well, but you believe in a God "of love and forgiveness."

Ask them how the "fruits of the spirit" are manifested by current news items regarding JWs (take your pick: protecting pedophiles, exJWs who go postal after being disfellowshipped and shunned, JW murderers and rapists, etc. Check the JW News page for the latest.)

Ask them how proud they are that some ultra-right political Christians now share their views on Halloween.

Remark that the rapid blinking of the "new light" might be a health hazard to epileptics.

Ask them why the Watch Tower Society is based in New York rather than in any holy city of the bible.

Ask them about the reasons for the recent "corporate restructuring" of the Watch Tower Society.

Ask them who owns their Kingdom Hall.

Ask them to sit quietly and concentrate on their breathing.

Ask them if independent thinking is still "against their religion."

When they ask, "Can I talk to you about God?" Reply, "Sure, what would you like to know?"

Ask them for their address. When they ask why you want it, claim that you want to appear on their doorstop uninvited so that you can peddle your own beliefs.

For males only: While you're talking with them, start putting on lipstick... and remark that you have a hot date.

Answer every one of their questions with "What do you mean by that?"

Tell them you already have your own religion. When they ask what it is, wince a little before confessing, "er, I'm not sure if it's legal in this country."

A chalk outline of a human body on the pavement, and a few copies of "The Watchtower" scattered around...

Pretend to be the slowest talking person in the world and see how long their loving-kindness and patience last.

Say, "I'm sorry, could you come back in a half hour? We're not done with the virgin yet."

Pick an oft-repeated word in the "approved lexicon" and giggle or say "beep" whenever they utter it. If they ask you what's going on, say "nothing, why?" in very even tones.

Ask them...How many Jehovah's Witnesses does it take to change a light bulb?

Then give the answer......Twelve. They all live in Brooklyn, and they have to keep changing it every day for "new light."

from http://www.virushead.net/jwhumor.html

231

Name Things JWs Believe That Are Not Actually Biblically Provable

by minimus in

jw
friends

here's one example: being a congregation publisher.

nowhere in the bible does it say you should be a "publisher" and turn in your time if you preach.

they try to twist the scriptures by saying that numbers are constantly being recorded in the bible so then conforming to the rules of being a publisher is from the scriptures.. yeah, right..

androb31

I learned something the other day. I learned the real reason why the Jehovah's Witnesses do not celebrate Halloween. Not because it's pagan, I guess they don't like strangers going up to their door and annoying them.

231

Name Things JWs Believe That Are Not Actually Biblically Provable

by minimus in

jw
friends

here's one example: being a congregation publisher.

nowhere in the bible does it say you should be a "publisher" and turn in your time if you preach.

they try to twist the scriptures by saying that numbers are constantly being recorded in the bible so then conforming to the rules of being a publisher is from the scriptures.. yeah, right..

androb31

Reniaa

Praising God at a unique and wonderful event like the birth of the future king and saviour of mankind is one thing! to stretch that into an annual event originally with all its rituals, date and worship dedicated to satanalia and repaste them onto a lie about that birth and sharing it with the rest of the world worshiping a fat man in a red outfit and white beard is not a strong arguement.

Woohoo!! We don't have to argue over this anymore. The WT resolves this issue for us. Notice the principle we should apply regarding origins.

From the September 22, 2003, Awake!, page 24, 'The Piñata - An Ancient Tradition':

"We found that for many people in Mexico, the piñata has lost its religious significance and is considered by most to be just harmless fun...A main concern is, not what the practice meant hundreds of years ago, but how it is viewed today in your area. Understandably, opinions may vary from one place to another. Hence, it is wise to avoid turning such matters into big issues."

Regarding Christmas it would read something like this....

"We found that for many people in different lands, Christmas has lost its pagan significance and is considered by many to be focused on Jesus...A main concern is, not what the practice meant hundreds of years ago, but how it is viewed today in your area. Understandably, some may choose to celebrate it and some may not since opinions may vary from one place to another. Hence, it is wise to avoid turning such matters into big issues."

Problem solved!!!

231

Name Things JWs Believe That Are Not Actually Biblically Provable

by minimus in

jw
friends

here's one example: being a congregation publisher.

nowhere in the bible does it say you should be a "publisher" and turn in your time if you preach.

they try to twist the scriptures by saying that numbers are constantly being recorded in the bible so then conforming to the rules of being a publisher is from the scriptures.. yeah, right..

androb31

Reniaa:

"hi androb, Camel and gnat situation that the bible itself allows for"

you mean:

"hi androb, Camel and gnat situation that the bible WT itself allows for" to suit it's own purposes.

The WT is the originator of the "we don't do anything of pagan origin", a little bit pagan/a lot pagan, ok to do/not ok to do hypocricy, not the bible.

Here's the camel and gnat passage, notice what is said just prior in vs. 23.

Matthew 23:23, 24 (NIV)

23 Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You give a tenth of your spices--mint, dill and cummin. But you have neglected the more important matters of the law--justice, mercy and faithfulness. 24 You should have practiced the latter, without neglecting the former. You blind guides! You strain out a gnat but swallow a camel.

Imagine if the WT was faithful to their own rules.

You see, it's not the pinata party I was raising issue with, which in itself is a small thing. The point I was making is the arbitrary application of the underlying principle when it suits/doesn't suit their purpose. The WT writers state in this article that origins are not important but the current understanding is what matters.

"We found that for many people in Mexico, the piñata has lost its religious significance and is considered by most to be just harmless fun...A main concern is, not what the practice meant hundreds of years ago, but how it is viewed today in your area. Understandably, opinions may vary from one place to another. Hence, it is wise to avoid turning such matters into big issues."

I find it odd that they even rasied the issue in the first place if it's such a gnat situation. Seems like they're trying to justify their stance. I also find it odd that they make concessions like that in the Spanish segment which is one of their fastest growing segments. I guess they wouldn't want to offend the spanish speaking brothers or slow the growth.

Reminds me of the point made by Ray Franz about the bribery that the WT turned a blind eye to in regards to military service in mexico yet at the same time they held to a hardline stance against a political party card in Rwanda. Many lives were lost as a result. I guess that is a camel gnat situation as well.

231

Name Things JWs Believe That Are Not Actually Biblically Provable

by minimus in

jw
friends

here's one example: being a congregation publisher.

nowhere in the bible does it say you should be a "publisher" and turn in your time if you preach.

they try to twist the scriptures by saying that numbers are constantly being recorded in the bible so then conforming to the rules of being a publisher is from the scriptures.. yeah, right..

androb31

Reniaa:

"pagan festivals are still practised as pagan and to pagan things they at best pay lip service to God and Jesus but people have to decide for themselves on this."

From the September 22, 2003, Awake!, page 24, 'The Piñata - An Ancient Tradition':

"We found that for many people in Mexico, the piñata has lost its religious significance and is considered by most to be just harmless fun...A main concern is, not what the practice meant hundreds of years ago, but how it is viewed today in your area. Understandably, opinions may vary from one place to another. Hence, it is wise to avoid turning such matters into big issues."

"The Governing Body spreads their hypocritical and contradictory stances through the various pages of Watchtower Society publications. Unfortunately, many Jehovah's Witnesses don't see it. However, let's make it crystal clear with a little research on Piñatas:"

"History of Piñatas...The origin of the Piñata is Chinese not Hispanic. It was used to celebrate the coming of spring. As a result of Marco Polo's adventures into China, he introduced this Chinese custom which was adopted by the Spanish as well as by the French and Italians. The Spanish brought this custom to the new world when they conquered Mexico. The Piñata became part of the Posada in the Catholic culture."

"The logic and reasoning the Watchtower Society uses makes no sense whatsoever. If you are not taking a stand against Piñatas, why take a hard-line stance against other things with religious and pagan origins? Piñatas are steeped with both pagan and religious ties. Why and how is Piñatas harmless fun but things such as Easter Eggs, Christmas Trees and New Year's celebrations are unacceptable for Jehovah's Witnesses?"

quote from http://savedfromthewatchtower.blogspot.com/

James 2:10 For whoever keeps the whole law and yet stumbles at just one point is guilty of breaking all of it.

It is JW law to avoid Christmas, Easter and B-days because of their Pagan origins. Why two sets of scales?

35

Sabellianism/Trinity

by JWdaughter in

has anyone studied the heresy that led to the teaching of arianism?

it was an opposite heresy called sabellianism.

it is exactly what the wt has been saying is "the trinity", but which was thoroughly discounted and rejected by early christians.

androb31

Reniaa,

You say:

"What you cannot change Jw daughter is the trinity doctrine as a teaching wasn't taught by the first century christians. It's clear from bible that they never knew of it as a teaching, not in one single scripture do they refer to a triune type God as trinitarians do, they never say 'God the son', Jesus always refers to Jehovah both before and after resurrection as 'My God' it's never reciprocated God only refers to Jesus as 'My son', Paul who writes 25 of the letters in the greek scriptures always keep God the father and Jesus as totally separate before and after resurrection , phrases like 'blessed be' used solely for the father is never used for Jesus and so on an so forth."

I beg to differ. Here is a passage from Hebrews 1:6-8 (NIV) which you love to quote from.

6And again, when God brings his firstborn into the world, he says,
"Let all God's angels worship him." [a] 7 In speaking of the angels he says,
"He makes his angels winds,
his servants flames of fire." [b] 8 But about the Son he says,
"Your throne, O God, will last for ever and ever,
and righteousness will be the scepter of your kingdom.

Or how about titus 2:13 (NIV)

while we wait for the blessed hope--the glorious appearing of our great God and Savior, Jesus Christ,

Or how about an OT passage. Amos 4:11 (NWT)

“‘I caused an overthrow among YOU people, like God’s overthrow of Sod´om and Go·mor´rah. And YOU came to be like a log snatched out of [the] burning; but YOU did not come back to me,’ is the utterance of Jehovah.

Who is Jehovah referring to as God here in that he would compare his overthrow to God's overthrow of Sodom and Gomorrah?

34

Please comment on Obsessive Compulsive Disorder

by compound complex in

jw
friends

the ocd thingy came up hugely in this old thread ... http://www.jehovahs-witness.net/jw/friends/137404/1/time-and-distance-a-guy-thing.

do you have a touch of the mania?.

i'm going on a walk now and timing each segment [ from street sign to street sign].. coco ocd.

androb31

rebel8,

Where'd you find that pic of me? That was before I lost weight. This is me now. Pointing at the numbers on the ceiling until I get it right. 1....2....3....4....5....OK........Start over. Von...Two...Tree ahh ahh ahh...