i have a lot of good stuff at home on the subject but i'm at work and could use some help for a friend who was just conversing w/ a jw..
"I understand. I thought you were just playing the part, like isaac was."
Oh gotcha, my bad.
"Why did God kill Michael?
I thought the wages of sin is death. Did Michael sin?"
That is a good point. I guess if God were to uncreate Michael it would be like killing him. Especially if he didn't remember who he was til he got baptized as Jesus he would've been as good as dead for 30 years. Never thought about it like that but I guess that would put a JW in a pickle.
i have a lot of good stuff at home on the subject but i'm at work and could use some help for a friend who was just conversing w/ a jw..
"androb31
God basically uncreated Michael and transferred his life force into Mary and caused her to give birth to Jesus, the Man.
That's not an answer to my question.
Why did God kill Michael?
I thought the wages of sin is death. Did Michael sin?
If a "life force" needs transferring, it must be something, some part of an angel. If it's not something then nothing came down and Jesus Lied"
I wasn't exactly trying to answer your question. I was merely explaining what I understood as a JW. I'm no longer a JW nor do I subscribe to their teachings. That's a good question to stump a current JW with.
i have a lot of good stuff at home on the subject but i'm at work and could use some help for a friend who was just conversing w/ a jw..
When I was a JW I understood it as Michael existed in heaven as God's first creation. When the time came for him to become Jesus, God basically uncreated Michael and transferred his life force into Mary and caused her to give birth to Jesus, the Man.
Jesus did not have his pre-human memories as Michael until he was baptized. Then he became the messiah when he received the Holy Spirit and remembered who he was.
Then when he died, he really died. Life force and all.
Then God resurrected (re-created) the life force and person of Michael, as a spirit person but without a body.
Jesus is now back to being Michael in the heavens but still known as the man Jesus only based on what he did 2000 years ago on earth???? That's easy enough to understand, right???
i have a lot of good stuff at home on the subject but i'm at work and could use some help for a friend who was just conversing w/ a jw..
"Interesting. Whatever works, I say. I'm still amazed that something so trivial as that would be a contributing factor for one's leaving since there are so many more SERIOUS problems with the Watchtower religion that are literally screaming in the faces of JWs that something is terribly wrong.
Then again, I've seen JWs leave over the Generation change or the UN hypocrisy when they wouldn't leave over the child rape coverups, so maybe you better carry on with what you are doing!"
Amen... I'm in agreement there. I think it comes down to the fact that some are naieve to the goings on with the pedophilia and Organization roots and the UN and some of those issues. I know I was. The fact that they've covered their tracks so well up until the last few years is another big red flashing light that should urge people to leave. At the time though for me, leaving came down to the question, did I have the Jesus of the bible or a different Jesus? I think this becomes a very important issue for many who take their faith in God seriously. I do realize that retaining faith in God is not for everybody who leaves the WT. To each his own. I do think we are on the same mission to help others be released from the grips of the WT though.
i have a lot of good stuff at home on the subject but i'm at work and could use some help for a friend who was just conversing w/ a jw..
"My question is:
How would the quality of our lives be improved if we discovered who Michael actually was?
Farkel"
"You just contradicted yourself. Are you saying the quality of your life has NOT been improved when you've been able (if you've been able) to literally save someone else's life by helping them out of a religion that is destroying it?
Geeeesssh! I wonder why I've spent thousands and thousands of hours of my time over the last dozen years doing that when I go no satisfaction at all when I do help people out? Pffllooooot!
Sarcasm aside, the quality of our lives IS improved when we do good things for others. It's selfish, but it is a good kind of selfish and quite a good thing for us, too. Anything that gives us a good feeling of satisfaction for helping others helps the quality of our own lives tremendously.
Farkel"
Cool!!! You answered your own question....
"Really? How many JWs have you or anyone else you know been convinced to leave the JW faith because someone pointed out to them that Michael was not Jesus?"
This was a contributing factor for myself coming out as well as my brother. It's made a dent in my mother's faith in the WT as well as others I know. I'm not saying it's the magic bullet but it does get someone's attention.
i have a lot of good stuff at home on the subject but i'm at work and could use some help for a friend who was just conversing w/ a jw..
"If they get sucked into Fundamentalism it ain't much of an improvement.
One superstition replaced by a worse superstition. A cruel organization replaced by a crueler God."
Faith in God = Fundamentalism..... Gotcha!!!
i have a lot of good stuff at home on the subject but i'm at work and could use some help for a friend who was just conversing w/ a jw..
"My question is:
How would the quality of our lives be improved if we discovered who Michael actually was?
Farkel"
It's not really a matter of improving one's life. For those of us who do believe the bible is the word of God and that Jesus is God it's a matter of defending the gospel we believe in. Jw's like to use it (Jesus is an Angel) as a diversionary tactic to try and stump a person defending their faith so they can make a convert. I figure it's helpful to be prepared to defend against it so as to keep a JW on point in a biblical discussion.
Also....
Not everything is about improving the quality of our life. For someone trying to help free a JW from the mind control for instance and allow them to retain their faith in God this is one topic that may open their eyes and help them realize how they've been duped. This realization could lead one to an exit from the Borg.
i have a lot of good stuff at home on the subject but i'm at work and could use some help for a friend who was just conversing w/ a jw..
Thanks Chalam....
i have a lot of good stuff at home on the subject but i'm at work and could use some help for a friend who was just conversing w/ a jw..
I have a lot of good stuff at home on the subject but I'm at work and could use some help for a friend who was just conversing w/ a JW.
ok, i read this on another thread that the new belief is that the when the bible says:.
galatians 5:22on the other hand, the fruitage of the spirit is love, joy, peace, long-suffering, kindness, goodness, faith,23mildness, self-control.
against such things there is no law.
"Spike, I will pray the Lord remove the scales of deception from your eyes."
I'm with isaacaustin on this. I pray the Lord reveals Himself to you Spike.
