Posts by donuthole

55

JW replies on my Shunning article

by besty in

i have a google article on shunning -.

http://knol.google.com/k/why-jehovah-s-witnesses-practice-religious-shunning#.

its had almost 15,000 page views :-).

donuthole

Paul didn't command us to "high-five" everyone but he certainly commanded Christians to "greet one another with a holy kiss" @ Romans 16:16. It's in the Bible, so why don't JW's do this?

My big gripe with JW's when they state that they df because they follow the Bible is you can't find anything that the Bible that resembles their practices. It has been mentioned here by others - but show me private/public reproof in the Bible, show me judicial committees, appeal committees, show me where recordings are prohibited and witnesses not allowed, show me someone that you have to wait a min year to reinstate, show me that when someone is reinstated that they cannot comment at the meetings.

So yes Paul did order the Corinthians to remove the man from among them (in violation to Jesus' instructions, but perhaps Paul didn't know of them). Yet we cannot neglect were he relents in 2 Cor and tells them to restore the man shortly thereafter.

21

The FIVE exciting Watchtower Presidential Eras

by Dogpatch in

jw
friends

charles t. russell era (1879-1916)date: late 1800's.

okay, july 1879 if you want to be picky.. current religious views: many apocalyptic leanings, prompting the origin of several major eclectic religious groups claiming that god had rejected the mainstream christian churches for their apostasy in the fourth century, and that he has now chosen a new prophet, a spokesman, a faithful messenger to re-educate the world as to the truths of the bible, long-lost and unattainable by any normal human being.

to gain eternal life, man must listen to the new gospel of this messenger(s).. this century sees the birth of the church of jesus christ of latter-day saints (mormons), adventism and its various offshoots (including jehovah's witnesses), christian science, christadelphians and other smaller groups, each one claiming a modern-day prophet and new or once-forgotten revelations to the populace, many of whom we find shopping for new ideas, yet disenchanted with the churches.. scenario: a young man who can't understand theology from a historical development point of view begins to feel that he is the "seventh messenger" (rev.

donuthole

In light of recent times I see the eras as

1. The Russell Era 1879-1916

2. Rutherford Era 1916-1942

3. Knorr/Franz Era 1942-1980

4. Classic Governing Body Era 1980-2000 (Not sure where the break should be between 4 & 5)

5. Governing Body 2.0 Era 2000 - 2014

I agree with Neverendingjourney that in the early years the Org was defined by the character of her presidents, Russell, Rutherford, Knorr/Franz.

With Russell and Rutherford you have the president acting as chief executive and also chief theologian. After the passing of Rutherford this splits into two with Knorr leading the business and Franz acting as spirtual "oracle". With their passing the Org loses both the strong lead in both arenas. The Governing Body does not fill this void. As president, Henschel stays out of the spotlight and the GB enters the shadows. As the original GB begins to grow old and die out they sever direct ties with the management of the corporations. Time forces new appointments of post-1935 anointed ones and the new era of the GB dawns. Promotion of the GB as leaders continues to increase. Literature emphasises that they must be trusted fully and heavily promotes them as leaders. They begin to make their mark on the organization, making changes to practice and teachings.

13

Going through my old "Shoegazer" albums....

by lepermessiah in

i heard "vapour trail" by ride the other day on the radio and it got me listening to some of the "shoegazer" classics of the early 1990's!.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pvhni5cu8mo.

of course, loveless by my bloody valentine had to come out also!.

donuthole

"They're quite good. It starts off with nice dreampop and then it dissolves into a droney shoegaze sound. :) So they're JWs?"

@Leolaia - Well they were back in 2004. A couple of them aren't in the org anymore, they are in a group called High TV. The rest of the band + others are in new group called "Akai" who have put out a couple of CD's.

http://www.myspace.com/wearehightv

http://www.myspace.com/theakai

202

DVD "JW's Faith In Action, part 1 Out of Darkness" Omits! Omits! Omits!

by Wasanelder Once in

i've been watching the new dvd and it is a bull fest about russell.

i haven't even gotten half way and they already excluded one very important bit of information.

you'll recall that russell "lost" his faith and "turning away from church creeds and searching for truth, russell examined some leading oriental religions, only to find these unsatisfying".

donuthole

I watched the video again uninterrupted on my TV and had an additional comment.

The Nelson Babour affair was a total gloss. They talk about Russell coming into association with Barbour, however, the omit the contributions that Barbour made to Russell's (and JW's) end-times chronology. Later in the video they imply that Russell came up with 1914 quite independently, when in reality he adopted Barbour's views. (Barbour himself received them from others.) Here too there is a level of dishonesty. As they talk about Russell and 1914 they show a chart starting in 607 and ending in 1914, but the chronology Russell obtained from Barbour originally and mistakingly used the start date of 606. (An error that would not be corrected until Fred Franz reworked it.)

13

Going through my old "Shoegazer" albums....

by lepermessiah in

i heard "vapour trail" by ride the other day on the radio and it got me listening to some of the "shoegazer" classics of the early 1990's!.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pvhni5cu8mo.

of course, loveless by my bloody valentine had to come out also!.

donuthole

I used to enjoy Lush quite a bit and was able to see them a couple of times, once with Mojave 3, which was the alt-country band that slowdive morphed into.

Here is a video clip of a JW shoegaze band from the Twin Cities area.

Edit: Don't know how to include videos but here is the link, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZtOBTM7gRPs

5

new guys on dvd

by booby in

did anyone notice a couple dudes not of gb on new dvd.

abrahamsen and another one.

any signifigance, maybe new gb's soon?.

donuthole

Was wondering myself if these were potential candidates for the Governing Body. I guess Couch is out of the running.

22

is this true in view of the gb claims

by booby in

christendom's churches have human.

leaders, such as the pope of rome, the.

patriarchs and metropolitans of the eastern.

donuthole

"That said, they avoid personal recognition so that they can avoid accountability."

Maybe in times past, but they are becoming more prominent. I noticed this last year with DVD being introduced by Ted Jaracaz (including note that he was a member of the governing body) and the book on Acts which featured a group photograph of the GB. This trend has continued with the new DVD release in which all 9 governing body members appear in the video and speak. The video specifically notes that that they are of the Governing Body.

JW have always had human leaders. In the early years of the organization there was no doubt who was in charge, be it Russell, Rutherford, or Knorr. Once the classic GB came into power the days of a visible leader fell by the wayside but now with GB 2.0 things are turning around.

202

DVD "JW's Faith In Action, part 1 Out of Darkness" Omits! Omits! Omits!

by Wasanelder Once in

i've been watching the new dvd and it is a bull fest about russell.

i haven't even gotten half way and they already excluded one very important bit of information.

you'll recall that russell "lost" his faith and "turning away from church creeds and searching for truth, russell examined some leading oriental religions, only to find these unsatisfying".

donuthole

Just finished the DVD. It was a pretty impressive presentation as far as quality goes. Their video production department is really coming along. Content aside this wouldn't be out of place on cable TV.

Some brief thoughts -- it seems that as time moves along the Witnesses are moving away from factual details of their history and settling on a story version. Just as the books on prophecy have gotten more watered down over the years it looks like the official Watchtower history is going the same route. This presentation trims down the information in the Proclaimers book and gives a more streamlined version, hitting what they believe are the important aspects of their history. The part about what was expected in 1914 was very skewed if not outright false. Further the villification of those who opposed the release of the Finish Mystery was very twisted. The dramatization of the account had the directors of the Society violently yelling at a Rutherford who sat meekly in the face of their assault.

It heavily promotes the "preaching work", even going so far as to give an artists depiction of a couple of first century Christians going door to door handing out scrolls.

This new DVD gives plenty of face time to Governing Body, keeping with a trend I picked up on last year. It seemed that they all had their time before the camera. This is a move away from the more obscure classic Governing Body.

65

Governing Body 2.0

by drew sagan in

i borrow the phrase gb 2.0 from alltimejeff, who used it yesterday in the post about theodore jaracz's death.. i was interested in starting a thread that addresses the new leadership regime that has emerged within the wts, especially in light of changes (albeit mundane) the organization has undertaken over the past 15 years or so.

while few of us have had close contact with the men in charge, changes they have made in recent years surly reflect a definable leadership style.

it also reveals a little bit about how they view the organization and its future.. from what i can put together, it seems that there a few obvious things to note.. - 1999 seems to be the sea change year in terms of gb appointment and might be seen sybolically as a turning point in terms of leadership for the group.

donuthole

As it relates to the Classic Governing Body, Ray Franz' memoirs indicate that they believed in the JW end-time mythos to the same extent the publishers did. I have little reason to believe that GB 2.0, feels any differently. It wouldn't be surprising if they are experiencing the same sort of anxiety at the dragging on of the system, yet still holding out hope that the end is "very near". The GB 2.0 have all been in the Organization for a long time, and have held the same hopes that the end was coming "soon" as the rest of the publishers.

While the rhetoric of the end being "soon" is still be trumpeted I'm seeing an almost veiled admission to the growing unease within the ranks. A song in the new song book speaks of the resurrection hope for current witnesses who have grown old as did a recent Watchtower. The idea presented is that older ones may not live to see the end as was expected but that their faithful servivce is recognized and will be rewarded with a resurrection. Similarly, the new drama gives tacit acknowledgement to the idea that the end didn't come when expected, but that they needed to be continue with the preaching work, and be patient. A couple of characters in the drama even flat out implicate that they didn't expect the end of Jerusalem would come in their lifetime.

202

DVD "JW's Faith In Action, part 1 Out of Darkness" Omits! Omits! Omits!

by Wasanelder Once in

i've been watching the new dvd and it is a bull fest about russell.

i haven't even gotten half way and they already excluded one very important bit of information.

you'll recall that russell "lost" his faith and "turning away from church creeds and searching for truth, russell examined some leading oriental religions, only to find these unsatisfying".

donuthole

Thanks for the link Black Sheet -- now for a working one. :-)

Anybody care to share? Please don't make me go back to the DC! Please think of my children!