donuthole

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Posts by donuthole

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  4

  Any 'old' elders books scanned online?

  by EndofMysteries in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  i'd like to compare, also anybody have old ones find anything new or different?

  .

  i'm also curious if any of the old ones told elders to discourage ones from going to the police or not or if that was a orally taught rule / call the branch.

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  donuthole

  wikileaks.org has one online but their site is down for maintenance at the moment.
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  21

  Joel P. Engardio's article on JWs (Washington Post)

  by behemot in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  jehovah's witnesses: a model for church and state begin blogger thumbs end blogger thumbs by joel p. engardio.

  if i'm ever allowed to legally marry, my mother won't attend my wedding.. i'm a gay man and my mom is one of jehovah's witnesses.

  to remain true to her faith, she can't in good conscience be part of a same-sex marriage celebration.

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  donuthole

  Knocking was flawed in that it presented JW's as crusaders for human rights and yet completely glossed over the fact that Witnesses deny those very same rights to their members.
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  11

  Secret Elder Book PROVES the JWs have a Clergy Class

  by VM44 in

  1. watchtower
  2. scandals

  the jws and the watchtower often say that they have no "paid clergy class.".

  but the new secret elder book that is supposed to be confidential and only seen by the elders and not be accessible to anyone else in the congregation proves beyond any doubt that the jws do have a clergy class!.

  they might not be paid, but the elders are a select, elite group among the witneeses.. so much for the boastful claim by the watchtower that they have no special clergy class..

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  donuthole

  To add to what DoubtingBro already expressed -

  When pressed by courts and lawyers the WT will claim that they cannot reveal anything about what transpires in a judicial meeting citing that it is protected under clergy confidentiality. There is even a statement provided in the book for elders to read verbatim when the accused tries to have legal representation in a JC.

  This defense has already been denied by the courts for a few reasons including the fact that the JC is already in the practice of sharing confidential information with other outside parties, even without the knowledge of the accused. As a matter of fact, the new elders book says that when advice or other opinions are needed a JC committee may engage other parties (experienced elders, CO's, the branch) with confidential information regarding the accused. It further outlines that when such actions are taken the elders are not to tell the accused they are consulting with others.
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  40

  KS10 Chapter Five Discussion

  by yknot in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  reiteration that the below is a discussion of chapter 5 from 'shepherding the flock of god' which is published by the wts of penn/ny.

  the wts is a non-profit that distributes it's publications free of charge worldwide.

  this particular publication while not for sale (well none of the wts publications are either technically) is not distributed broadly but is still nonetheless part of their bible educational work, while not required donations are joyful accepted by all jws for the purpose of this work....... here are the previous discussion threads:.

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  donuthole

  Paragraph 5:

  Oral & Anal sex is ok as long as YOU ARE married to each other.

  This is not a change. Their stance for more than a few years is that oral and anal sex between married individuals is not pornea. If you engage in such sex-acts with your spouse you will not be brought before a JC on charges of fornication. Although I haven't seen it touched upon yet in the book there may still be other consequences such as losing privileges of service.
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  28

  KS10-Chapter Seven Discussion

  by yknot in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  chapter 7 from 'shepherding the flock of god' published by the wts of penn/ny is part of their worldwide bible educational work.

  the wts is a non-profit whose publications are not for sale but are freely given to those who show 'genuine' interest..... while not required, a donation is always joyfully accepted .

  while admittedly my feelings were hurt by "the boys" yanking my 4shared files.. anywho.... the other part of my brain says 'it ain't personal' and just a game.....hey yall get out of 'whatever' your normal task is right!!

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  donuthole

  " At times, complicated judicial cases may necessitate consultation with an experienced mature elder in another congregation or the circuit overseer. In such a situation, inform the wrongdoer that he decision is pending. Do not inform him that you will be consulting with parties outside of the judicial committee, which may at times include the branch office. While pertinent details may be discussed, names should not be used when discussing the case with another elder. However, when the circuit overseer is consulted or when circumstances require that the branch office be contacted, the judicial committee should reveal the names. Do not inform him that you will be consulting with parties outside of the ju dicial committee, which may at times include the branch office."

  This procedure alone betrays any claims the Society Legal has that a Judicial Hearing is legally protected from court scrutiny under the precepts of clergy confidentiality.

  Apart from dredging up PTS reviewing this information proves that the WT claims that disfellowshipping is "Biblical" rings hollow. The scant Bible verses quoted are strained for application and for many of their procedures they offer no Biblical support whatsoever.
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  28

  KS10-Chapter Seven Discussion

  by yknot in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  chapter 7 from 'shepherding the flock of god' published by the wts of penn/ny is part of their worldwide bible educational work.

  the wts is a non-profit whose publications are not for sale but are freely given to those who show 'genuine' interest..... while not required, a donation is always joyfully accepted .

  while admittedly my feelings were hurt by "the boys" yanking my 4shared files.. anywho.... the other part of my brain says 'it ain't personal' and just a game.....hey yall get out of 'whatever' your normal task is right!!

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  donuthole

  Once you get it all scanned make sure Wikileaks.org gets a copy. They are bulletproof from Watchtower legal. Even the mormons can't get their secret elders manual off that site.
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  31

  KS10 Chapter Six Discussion

  by yknot in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  http://www.jehovahs-witness.net/watchtower/beliefs/200524/1/ks10-chapter-one-discussion.

  http://www.jehovahs-witness.net/watchtower/beliefs/200527/1/ks10-chapter-two-discussion.

  http://www.jehovahs-witness.net/watchtower/beliefs/200581/1/ks10-chapter-three.

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  donuthole

  Their canned legal response to attorneys regarding the clergy confidentially of the judicial hearing has already been tested in court and found to be false.
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  40

  KS10 Chapter Five Discussion

  by yknot in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  reiteration that the below is a discussion of chapter 5 from 'shepherding the flock of god' which is published by the wts of penn/ny.

  the wts is a non-profit that distributes it's publications free of charge worldwide.

  this particular publication while not for sale (well none of the wts publications are either technically) is not distributed broadly but is still nonetheless part of their bible educational work, while not required donations are joyful accepted by all jws for the purpose of this work....... here are the previous discussion threads:.

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  donuthole

  Please note above that the books says, "nonrelatives" .

  Thanks faul! Reading have never been my strong point. So no change then you can still associate with DF'd relatives without JC repurcussions! Nice to know.

  Unrelated - does anyone have an idea why child abuse is sectioned under brazen conduct and not a category unto itself. (Or am I misreading again?)
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  40

  KS10 Chapter Five Discussion

  by yknot in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  reiteration that the below is a discussion of chapter 5 from 'shepherding the flock of god' which is published by the wts of penn/ny.

  the wts is a non-profit that distributes it's publications free of charge worldwide.

  this particular publication while not for sale (well none of the wts publications are either technically) is not distributed broadly but is still nonetheless part of their bible educational work, while not required donations are joyful accepted by all jws for the purpose of this work....... here are the previous discussion threads:.

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  donuthole

  I was under impression that under the old KS book that association with a df'd relative was not a judicial offense. Can someone verify this? I'm wondering if this new brazen conduct by assocation with DF'd family members directive is new.
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  37

  "Do Not Forsake the Gathering of Yourselves..."

  by AGuest in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  to the household of god, israel, and those who go with... may you have peace!.

  very recently, another dear one asked me whether i attended church and when i responded that i do not attend, but i am the church... as are all of us who are "living stones" in the temple of god... the one responded and asked as to our lord's address to the seven congregations in his revelation to john, as well as the admonition stated at hebrews 10:25. unfortunately, neither of these support church attendance, as i shared with the one asking of me.. when our lord addressed the seven "congregations/churches" in his revelation to john, he was not addressing a literal congregation in, for example, laodecia.

  if that were the case, (1) then no other congregations/churches were addressed but those seven and thus, the information is for none but those seven, which is unreasonable; (2) the congregations met in houses and thus there was more than one congregation/church in, say, ephesus.

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  donuthole

  It was kind of interesting to have this verse drilled into my head as to why I should go to the Kingdom Hall and then later when I visited some area churches and have the same one used as to why people should go to their particular church on Sunday. It is a favorite of religionists that is for sure. When the writer of Hebrews encourages ones not to forsake the gathering of themeselves it wasn't a gathering without purpose as if mere attendence did anything for anyone but rather so that they could be mutually edified and encouraged by Christ through one another. The natural inclination of the spirit is toward unity within the body of Christ so it happens that when ones walk according to the spirit they will want to seek out and meet together with their brothers and sisters. Where and how this takes place is not specified. From my experience as one of Jehovah's Witnesses I can say that despite repeated admonitions to "get to the Kingdom Hall" on the basis of this verse from Hebrews there was very, very little true refreshment and encouragement to found therein.