Posts by silent

149

why jw's commit suicide?

by notalone in

jw
friends

we all know the rate of suicide is high among jw's.

my question is this- was there some subliminal messages that encourage this.

i was a born in and my entire life i would have these thoughts that could come out of nowhere,"kill yourself.

I'm fully convinced that the organization has bred depression and mental illness for many years. I grew up in it through the 70s, 80s, 90s, was never baptized and quit going, jump started with 9/11, and have since given it up. After 9/11 I had to be on all kinds of anti-depressants and finally towards the end I would take a lorazepam just to handle the Sunday meeting. I finally told myself this was no way to live and after I quit attending, I was able to get off my pills completely. I was brought close to suicide several times due to this organization. When you keep asking people, "What more can you do?" then what do you think is going to be the result? Imagine someone who pioneers and puts in tons of hours and does it for weeks and months on end, only to be told, "Can you do more?" Your brain will instantly put 2 and 2 together than what you're doing isn't good enough. I told a co-worker one time, "Nothing you do is ever good enough." He took issue with that statement and told me how he disagreed, etc. I looked at him and said, "You just proved my point."

It just makes me sick to my stomach to sit through a meeting and my anxiety is just through the roof. Something inside me makes me want to jump and run out the door hollering and screaming. I told my wife I just can't do it anymore. Her mother keeps hounding on us both to get back to meetings and my wife said, "Do you want my husband to kill himself?"

I told the local PO one time when he pigeoned holed me at a friends wedding, "If you can pay for my pills, I'll be able to come back."

There are just too many dots that don't connect and my mind is really screwed up from paying attention and eating everything they said while I was a little kid. I told that same PO, "Don't let this religion raise your grandkids." He even told me he won't let their grandkids see certain publications due to the imagery.

It messed me up and darn near killed me. I suffer and struggle every day with the thoughts that religion put into my head, but I really tried hard to be good and holy. I've finally come to terms that nothing I ever do is ever good enough and never will be so I just find things to do that brings me happiness on a daily basis. Little projects around the house, trips with my wife, a few little hobbies I enjoy, visiting with the public at my job, and giving my wife lotsa hugs and kisses and showing her how much I appreciate her. In that there is much healing and maybe one day, I'll be "just good enough."

-silent

14

Didn't go to memorial this year

by silent in

jw
friends

my wife and i had business to attend to out of town today and i had thought if we made it back home in time, we'd go to the memorial.

as it turned out, we didn't get home in time and we missed it, but we had a real good talk with each other on the way home.

we are largely successful faders and at the very least, i like to try and make the memorial.

silent

My wife and I had business to attend to out of town today and I had thought if we made it back home in time, we'd go to the Memorial. As it turned out, we didn't get home in time and we missed it, but we had a real good talk with each other on the way home. We are largely successful faders and at the very least, I like to try and make the Memorial. Now I do understand there are haters, lovers, and in-betweeners on this board and I respect every one's decisions as to their views of the Witnesses. I told my wife, "Isn't it a sad situation that I have a sincere interest in worshiping my Creator, but the people have made it a very trying task to go to the point they have come between me and my Creator." Growing up a Witness has conditioned me quite severely and dogmatically to think that nothing I do is ever good enough so why try? I couldn't seem to do anything right and when I confessed over some minor things that bothered me years ago, boy did those elders swoop in and drag me into the backroom on a regular basis and of course everyone sees you going in and coming out. It just reinforced my attitude of nothing I ever do is good enough and it's a totally logical conclusion you come to when you're raised in this religion.

So now when I go to the occasional meeting, I am struck with this fight or flight reflex. I can hardly sit still and I want to stand up and bolt for the door - I physically jerk in my seat it's that bad. The times I've gone I try to bolt out right after the prayer or during the song and of course I get the cold stares and looks. I could have gone to the Memorial in the city I was in, but due to me being unshaven, dressed in my work clothes, and not far enough away to the point some people wouldn't recognize me, I told my wife I just couldn't do it due to the judging I would undergo. The religion and the people in it have caused me so much grief and torment that I just can't stand to go back. I physically suffer for about 4 days after attending with depression and symptoms that are very much akin to PTSD - trauma from being in an environment that is toxic to my system.

Sadly it has come to this, and yet I still feel that little something that makes me want to be grateful to a loving Creator and worship Him happily. So how does one go about worshiping properly when you believe most of the teachings of the Witnesses and yet can't stand the very people that are supposed to believe the same as you? It's a weird conundrum to be in and one I never thought I'd find myself in.

On top of all of this, there was a situation years ago where a well-known elder was involved in some serious wrongdoing and in the end, he didn't get disfellowshipped. I then realized it really was the good ol' boys club and people get df'd all the time for far less. The emotional ups and downs and inner turmoil that I perpetually experienced finally drove me to fade in order to protect myself and my mental sanity. Let's just say that when I don't go to the meetings, I don't have to be under the supervision of a medial doctor.

I'm curious if any of you on the board have experienced similar situations as mine and how did you deal with it? When I lay down the basic beliefs that I have proven to myself are true, it still comes back to the only religion that fits most of what I believe are the Witnesses. Is there any way possible to worship without selling out and attending a church that doesn't believe the same as me (again - what's the point?) or is there any way to worship as a Witness without having to be around the people? I guess it gets into defining what worship is and being able to scripturally prove that worship is legitimate without the hierarchy, people, and building involved. Matthew 18:19, 20 comes to mind.

Thanks for reading my post and I hope you had a great Memorial Day however you spent it.

silent

57

our secret dating got caught...

by trueloveneverfails94 in

we both are 21 years old.

i am almost done with my study and working on to become one of an unbaptized publisher.

silent

Keep this in mind: You are living as a prisoner of other people's thoughts. Back in the Isarelite/Hebrew days, when a young man fancied a woman, he took her home, shagged her, and the next day the families had a celebration. You made darn sure you loved the girl for all time, had sex, and you were married. There was none of all that other chaperone crap, paper work, marriage licenses, etc. So mankind has created all these secular rules about what is marriage and made it into a big legalistic hubbub. At any rate, if you live the life the WTBS wants you to live, you will be single for a LONG, LONG time - they want you to have the special gift of singleness and God will kill you if you masturbate. The sisters grow old and become old maids and end up being cat ladies with weirdly shaved eyebrows. The longer people are single, the more maladjusted they usually become.

The time to have a girl and get married is now because the longer you wait, the more baggage they will have - kids, someone else's screw-toy, riddled with everyone else's diseases, failed relationships, etc. Oh yeah, they will have a field day with you about not being baptized and talking about being unevenly yoked. Ask any of them to show you where in the Bible getting married without being baptized is a disfellowshipable offense? The worst they can do is ban you from having your wedding in the Hall. Big deal. Go have it at a park, mountain, or some really cool place. The Witnesses around here gave my wife and I the serious cold shoulder when we were dating and we were middle-aged!!! They completely ruined the happiness we could have had if we had found someone and gotten married sooner. Our wedding almost felt like a funeral in restrospect. Anyway, If you can't be trusted when your *ick is half limp and the raging hormones have left your body (when you're older), then there is something wrong with you. On a personal note, I would seriously suggest waiting to have sex after marriage - not because of purity issues and all that - just because it's worth waiting for someone you really love. It makes the relationship really strong. You can just shag around if you want, but a lot of people will tell you that in the end, it leaves you feeling rather empty - as if it just isn't as special anymore. Also, while you're busy screwing around, people are getting married, and one day you wake up and ALL THAT IS LEFT is sloppy seconds and thirds - with kids - with issues - and you're left wondering why you cashed in all your chips so early. At that point all you're left with is a limp shaft that doesn't work any more and you're still alone. Anyway, as a last resort, you can fight fire with fire and deny it. It takes 2 people to witness something and be considered true. Under the law, you've done nothing wrong. I concur though - do NOT get baptized just to be with her and at age 21, you're no longer a minor, so you do have to make a choice - do you want to live under their rules for the rest of your life or do you want to get on with it, start a life, and be happy? Jehovah wants you to be happy and get married to someone that your heart desires. One thing you will find out, when you want to even consider being with a member of the opposite sex in this religion, suddenly your life BECOMES EVERYONE'S BUSINESS and they will stop at no end to hang you, kick you out, and find fault with every single thing you do. They turn into ravenous spies, back biters, etc. because they just can't stand the thought that someone might commit a horrendous evil known as sex! The both of you better not be living with your parents because it's EVEN WORSE!

19

Chronic relapse - what do I do?

by wayoutthere in

jw
friends

my first post here and unfortunately it is asking for help.. i was a born in jehovah's witness and from my earliest memories, i know i hated being one.

i hated the embarrassment of being the "outsider" at school and i hated not being allowed to have any friends.

of course i had the obligatory friends in the kingdom hall - none of whom were my age exactly and none of whom i would have personally chosen to be friends with if i had been left to pick them myself in a natural setting.

silent

Your story could be me and lots of others. The stigma, the day-to-day fear and terror of being taunted by your classmates, feeling alone, being an outsider, etc. is ALL a side-effect of this religion. You never got over it and hid it all those years. When you hide something, you are allowing "IT" or "THEM" to have power and control over you. Simply put, you have chosen to live as a prisoner of other people's thoughts all these years due to the traumas inflicted upon you during your youth. I'm not being critical of you, but save yourself the money from having to have a therapist tell you the same thing. I'm very open about my upbringing because the vast majority of adults and sane/free thinkers totally get it at this stage that as kids, we all have very little choice in how we were being raised. When you mature and come of age, you make decisions to either keeping being what you are, or be different from what you once were. I simply tell people I was raised one of Jehovah's Witnesses and due to some problems I had with the teachings and how I was treated, for my own health and mental well-being, I just couldn't go anymore. Problem solved and I've never run across anyone who was critical of that. Actually I have people ask me more questions about the Bible after they find out. Kind of a weird witness situation that seems more natural than ever before. You will cause yourself way more grief and trauma if you keep hiding it. Instead, grow up, be open about it, it's part of you and anyone who holds you in derision over it is a bloomin' fool that isn't worth your time. You had no choice in the matter at the time, but now you do.

I must mention that I don't have a large circle of friends. I seldom ever go and visit friends anywhere, I come home from work, fix a meal, surf the net, work on my farm a bit, and my wife and I pretty much keep to ourselves. We have friends that we keep a good 100+ miles away that we are welcome to go see anytime and hang out with and in so doing, we do maintain strict control over who comes to the house. I have a couple of close-knit "worldly" contacts that know my story and they of course are allowed over anytime - I'd actually trust them to house sit for me. I'm a jack of all trades, so anyone who takes issue with my Witness past, can usually be subdued when I fix something of theirs for cheap or free and they realize, I'm not such a bad guy after all. I can see how if you're the BBQ-on-the-weekend type, and drink, watch sports with the gang, etc. then the shallow-flighty nature of that social situation could wreak havoc on your fantasy life of fun and games, but in the long term it's best to come out with it. Part of not being embarrassed or ashamed is to never outwardly show it. Growing up as a Witness, I became very good at acting - to a pathological level - but when you show no shame - it's funny but the shame actually transfers to the person who thought you should be ashamed. Then they're ashamed that they thought you should be ashamed.

I feel for you, but I've learned to cope and deal with this every day. For people who are more sensitive emotionally, being a Witness is pure torture, and I completely understand why the suicide rate is high and largely ignored by the upper brass.

I wish you well. You're in good company here.

53

Need to vent: Wife just went in full cult mode, huge fight. she is so brainwashed

by goingthruthemotions in

jw
friends

out of the blue my wife started to ask me about my feeling about the borg.

i told her i didn't want to talk about it...she persisted.

she already knows how i feel, i told her that my biggest beef is that they use mind control, and yep she went in to how i was an apostate and how she doesn't want to be married to an apostate.

silent

I wonder why she is asking? I've found that usually when a Witness asks things, it's never for an innocent reason. They are doing the bidding of someone like an elder or family member - doing the spying and dirty work. No doubt she is off and reporting this to someone somewhere. The best thing I would say, *IF* (and this is a big *IF*) you wish to stay together and don't mind lending lip service to supporting her activities, taking her to the Hall and dropping her off on bad-weather days like snow if that's where you live, then you don't give her any grounds for divorce or at the very least, you show you're amicable to what she wants to do. The more you conduct yourself in a kind and Christian manner that is un-dub like (an answer when mild turns away rage), then you prove yourself the bigger person, the more Christ-like person, and you gain the upper hand. I wouldn't engage her in any more conflicts - just tell her that you'll support her beliefs as long as she respects you as her supporting mate. That puts the entirety of the situation on her and she will have to do the cheating or whatever devious plan she has to concoct to justify divorcing or leaving you. I don't know your entire personal situation, but it's a great plan of attack if you can love her despite her beliefs. Usually sincere dubs aren't too hard to get along with once they learn to respect you for your beliefs. On the other hand, if she's a wild and crazy dub bitch, then there is no hope and I wish you the best.

7

Looking for 4 years of my posts!

by clarity in

dear simon, did you ever explain where all our previous posts have gone?.

if you did ...i missed it.. my current info states that i have only posted 2 times & responded to only a few posters.. seems to me my count was about 3,000 the last time i looked......plse tell me how to access my old stuff or has it been destroyed now?.

clarity .

silent

I think you can delete your old posts, but you have to go back and edit them and leave 'em blank before you resave. That's the only way I figured out you could do it.

91

Your worst convention experience.

by zeb in

by a split second rescuing our handicapped son from being pushed down the stairs by a flood of sisters rushing out to see as the drama had started.. the main offender being a special pioneer..

silent

BTW: Freddie Franz was small frail man when I saw him back in the 80s. I was taller than him and people were standing in line like he was some kind of a celebrity. I went to get a closer look and then while I was waiting in line, I felt like a fool, and just went back to my seat. He was just a man.

91

Your worst convention experience.

by zeb in

by a split second rescuing our handicapped son from being pushed down the stairs by a flood of sisters rushing out to see as the drama had started.. the main offender being a special pioneer..

silent

My worst one was at a convention in the midwest where bleacher seating was located immediately above tightly spaced and packed hard-plastic seating. My legs got really sore and cramped up and so for lunch, I just stepped right behind my seat and sat on the wooden bleacher so I could enjoy my lunch with my legs stretched out. This area had been marked off with yellow tape for which I presume was their attempt at forcing everyone down below into the regular seats so it didn't appear to look so sparse (all about the appearances ya know!) I had an attendant in his upper 40s come over and inform me that I needed to get back down into my seat. I said I would and that I was stretching out my legs. He walked the entire perimeter and when he came back, he zero'd in on me and glared and said, "I thought I told you to sit back down in your seat." That was the beginning of the end for me at conventions. I suffered (yes - suffered!) for years at conventions with sore legs, legs going to sleep, sore butts due to hard seating, sore backs, and just a horrible affair with my comfort. They quit allowing people to bring in lawn chairs (which they used to allow) and it got the point I would start brainstorming about bringing a recliner on a dolly with handicapped placards all over it to see if I could sneak it by. :)

Yet another time I was helping a family member with cleaning duty with the bathrooms. I would sit at this little table and listen to the talks droning on and on. The family member said something about leaving for a little bit and I said okay. So I sat there by myself for quite some time and sure enough, an attendant came up and queried me about why I was sitting there and why I wasn't in my seat with my family. Yet I would see others sitting at desks and the same attendant would just walk on by them. WTF!?!?!?!

Finally one other time, when I was really young, my brother and I would do like kids do and play hide and seek or tag in the auditorium at intermission by walking really fast all up and down the stairs in all the little nooks and crannies (just below a run so we wouldn't get in trouble.) One time I decided to run like I had seen all the other little brats and elder's kids do with impunity and right off the bat, I got stopped by an elderly brother who counseled me about running in Jehovah's house. All this while kids were running by us. I felt so horrid and later when that brother died, I didn't hold back by telling all that asked me if I had heard he passed away what I thought about how he drug me off in a corner to counsel me while others kids kept running by us. JERK!

NEVER in my whole life, have I ever felt so bad for just being myself. I was not an elder's child (in fact I had a handicapped father that precluded me from ever going to other congregations for talks) so I was easy pickings and fodder for anyone who wanted to wreak their counseling arm of authority on me. I would get counseled for just being myself, for wanting to stretch my legs, for doing what others did with impunity (and screw all that talk about Jehovah disciplines those he loves.)

I haven't been to a convention of any sort in about 4 years and I don't miss it at all. As a matter of fact, I'm a lot more relaxed because I know in the small town I'm in, all the JWs will be gone. It's a great feeling.

Honestly, when I look back, once I got a little older and wiser, I really didn't enjoy any of the conventions at all. I enjoyed the motel stay, swimming in the indoor pool, loading up on knick-knacks at the gift shop, and eating out. The conventions bored me and I didn't understand why we had to meet there anyway when everything they said could be covered as talks at the local Kingdom Halls. Does anyone remember the circuit assemblies that would start about 8:15am and run to 5:55 with an hour for lunch? That was forever to a young kid!

It's probably a good idea I don't go, because if I was to sit in the bleacher seats again and I got accosted by an attendant, I'd not only tell him to buzz off, I'd call the police and tell them I was getting harassed by a person in a public facility for sitting in an area that is OPEN to the public and demand they be removed and press charges. I won't back down next time.

12

Waking someone up using WT Article on "Doubts"?

by cappytan in

has anyone had success in using this article to convince their family member or spouse that critical research of what the society presents is important to build faith?.

this article has this passage that jumped out at me:.

of course, not all doubt is bad.

silent

Of course they strongly encourage you through roundabout-reasonings that you shouldn't apply this to their beliefs. I've often wondered why it doesn't say in scripture what a "pioneer" is and why no hourly requirement is mentioned? It seems to me that removing the hourly requirements would mean people could speak to others about their beliefs as the opportunity arose and in non-confrontational situations. It's why I only turn in token time, but in reality I don't keep track. Keeping track of hours is not biblical nor is there any other precedent about service time other than sending them off in pairs. Other things like facial hair and cultural limitations are encouraged as if they were from the scriptures, but have no basis in scripture whatsoever. I invent my own culture and follow it as opposed to the vast majority of sheeple who follow other people's culture.

31

Is this proof that the flood was regional?

by silent in

jw
friends

i stumbled across a scripture today.

it's numbers 13:33 "and there we saw the nephilim, the sons of anak, who are from the nephilim, and in comparison we seemed like grasshoppers, both to us and to them.. now if they honestly believed that they saw the nephilim, it would mean that some nephilim would have had to survive the flood or that the hijinks of the fallen angels before the flood, happened again shortly thereafter.

the only other thing i can come up with is that nephilim was some kind of generic word that implied giant proportions, but not necessarily the nephilim.. comments from the more educated appreciated.. silent.

silent

I would like to believe the Bible about the flood, but I still haven't come up for a reason for Australia. Unless Jehovah used his holy spirit to either fly kangaroos and koalas there or via a land bridge before cutting off the bridge. At any rate, if indeed everything did perish (there are ocean-life fossils found on the tops of every mountain range in the world), then that would lead to just one logical conclusion that the fallen angels who materialized bodies for themselves, were up to the same thing after the flood although the scope of what happened previously was never allowed to manifest itself where the entire earth was filled with violence due to the Nephilim. I would suppose that the Israelites going into these lands and conquering them was more than just a war of people. It was the subjects of Jehovah battling the subjects of Satan and coming off victorious. It was the little normal-sized guys conquering the giant-sized guys and a wiping out of the Nephilim. Evidently there is some kind of prohibition that doesn't allow the fallen angels to do that again or they simply tired of it.

Thanks for your input everyone. I personally think the Bible has a bit more credence so as to not be written off as a myth. I approach it as a book of truth and go from there. Maybe some like-minded individuals would enjoy this thread more.