Thus FatFreek 2005 - this is where the child molestation and pedophilia has gotten them in trouble. If someone was caught fondling a young member of the congregation, is their official response then to discipline internally and not report it to the authorities? That would cross a line that Caesar has in place so as they say in the silence of the Catholic church during Hitler's regime - silence begets complicity. If they report pedophilia, but not illegal immigration then they are starting to pick and choose what laws of Caesar to report on and not. That is shaky ground and turning a blind eye to wrong-doing. Interesting to say the least...
silent
JoinedPosts by silent
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46
Illegal immigrants in the organization?
by silent ini had a thought today that might prove interesting.
i'm wondering if there are any illegal immigrants who are witnesses?
surely it would be a great position to be in as an illegal immigrant because you could play up your plight and prey on the sympathies of others within the congregation.
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Illegal immigrants in the organization?
by silent ini had a thought today that might prove interesting.
i'm wondering if there are any illegal immigrants who are witnesses?
surely it would be a great position to be in as an illegal immigrant because you could play up your plight and prey on the sympathies of others within the congregation.
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silent
Very interesting indeed and fodder to be thrust out in the event there is an illegal immigrant in the congregation. In the case of Mexico and the U.S., I can't imagine an illegal immigrant that would want to even bother attending meetings unless they gained financially or materially from it. I even doubt they would stay long enough to get baptized nor be allowed, but I'd still say it could happen somewhere. I do feel for immigrants and their plight, but there are legal processes in place that Caesar has put in place and that law stands until Christ returns and does things Jehovah's way.
Thanks for your commentary. Very refreshing to not be judged over my thoughts for a change...
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Illegal immigrants in the organization?
by silent ini had a thought today that might prove interesting.
i'm wondering if there are any illegal immigrants who are witnesses?
surely it would be a great position to be in as an illegal immigrant because you could play up your plight and prey on the sympathies of others within the congregation.
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silent
I also wanted to throw in this other line of reasoning is that in order to keep the congregation clean, wouldn't removing someone from among your midst who was a habitual or perpetual law-breaker be in order? Any line of reasoning that seeks to justify allowing an illegal immigrant as a member of a congregation would in fact be false reasoning - allowing a perpetual breaker of the law to be in your company. In effect, this would basically be sanctioning the act of being in the country illegally. It would certainly ruffle some feathers and create a very awkward situation, but when it comes to laws, you can't pick and choose which ones you want to follow or it nullifies the entire law.
Interesting situation... Someone could have a lot of fun with it by saying it offends their conscience and so forth.
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Illegal immigrants in the organization?
by silent ini had a thought today that might prove interesting.
i'm wondering if there are any illegal immigrants who are witnesses?
surely it would be a great position to be in as an illegal immigrant because you could play up your plight and prey on the sympathies of others within the congregation.
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silent
Thank you for your comment Listener. Even if the organization believes God's laws are above man's, ie obeying God as ruler rather than men - Jehovah hasn't put anything in scripture concerning illegal immigration however, obeying the Superior Authorities - as preached by the organization - would dictate that they turn themselves in and be deported. If I had this in my congregation, I would push the issue. There is no way someone who doesn't obey the laws of the country should be allowed to attend without some kind of action such as marking, etc. If they tolerate illegal immigrants, then technically, they should allow everything else that crosses Caesar's boundaries - such as pedophilia, refusal to pay taxes, speeding, etc. It seems to me they want to pick and choose what laws of Caesar's are grounds for disciplinary action, when scripture already plainly defines it at Romans 13 (by their own interpretation.)
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Illegal immigrants in the organization?
by silent ini had a thought today that might prove interesting.
i'm wondering if there are any illegal immigrants who are witnesses?
surely it would be a great position to be in as an illegal immigrant because you could play up your plight and prey on the sympathies of others within the congregation.
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silent
I had a thought today that might prove interesting. I'm wondering if there are any illegal immigrants who are witnesses? Surely it would be a great position to be in as an illegal immigrant because you could play up your plight and prey on the sympathies of others within the congregation. In accordance with Rom. 13 about obeying the superior authorities, since this person is clearly living in a perpetual illegal situation and not obeying the superior authorities, do you think the BOE would have the guts to mark or disfellowship such ones? For them to be repentant would mean a move back home. I'm not basing this on any real situation that I'm aware of, however I'm sure it could be a real scenario. If this was tolerated, then wouldn't bank robbery, theft, forgery, and a whole entire list of other illegal behaviour be "okay" and "tolerated" as well?
I think too much, but it might be fun to throw a little scripture at the situation and watch 'em scatter...
-silent
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Lets list everything that has pagan origins!!
by song19 ini have a feeling i am going to have to explain to my jw folks why i have decided to allow my children to participate in holidays at school.
theyll probably be wondering too why i will get together with our non jw family for the holidays.. .
we know jws avoid holidays because of their pagan origins.
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silent
@Apostrate: LOL! Toilets are pagan too then!
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JW Flash Mob
by Listener ina flash mob is defined as a large public gathering at which people perform an unusual or seemingly random act and then disperse.. jws are now in on the act and were doing this in bath on unsuspecting convention delegates during their tours after the convention.
they did this on at least three seperate occassions.. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3hmrqr-k4hq.
here's another one, not so public though.
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silent
Can you imagine flash mobs and the wave being done in the late 70s or 80s or even the early 90s? The brothers in charge would have levelled some pretty serious counsel at the rank and file for the unrulyness of it all and treating Jehovah's house of worship as some kind of studio or play ground. How is a bunch of adults flash mobbing any different than a bunch of kids playing on the stage? The underlying motive treats the place of worship as some kind of social centre or music hall. I find the latest trends in the organization extremely disturbing as it basically undoes everything we've been taught growing up and shows it as a bunch of lies and double-standards if this kind of behaviour is tolerated. If I was there at this assembly hall fiasco, I would have got up and walked out. I find it very disrespectful.
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Wrestling with change, technology, jealousy, and spiritual need...
by silent inhey gang, i'm a fader and i've made a few posts in the past, but i mostly lurk.
i had a visit with a family member the other night and they know how i feel about my life as a witness growing up.
my life as a witness was not fun, i had no friends "in the truth," was picked on relentlessly in school, and basically my life as a witness left me with not one real good memory.
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silent
Hey gang, I'm a fader and I've made a few posts in the past, but I mostly lurk. I had a visit with a family member the other night and they know how I feel about my life as a Witness growing up. My life as a Witness was NOT fun, I had no friends "in the truth," was picked on relentlessly in school, and basically my life as a Witness left me with not one real good memory. Being laughed at every single day at school for being seen at doors, being ostracized by Witnesses because I didn't go out often for that reason, and just a huge wad of negative emotions and memories every single time anything about JWs comes up.
I've been doing a lot of thinking lately how a person gets "over" these kinds of things. I know many people are seriously angry for what the religion has done to their families. I don't blame them at all. Most all of my bad memories are based on unfairness and unjustness where people did some pretty serious things and got away with it whereas others did things that seemed rather petty and they got the book thrown at them. Out of all the people I've met in my life, the ones that have been the most imbalanced, least friendly, least loving, hateful, crazy, bonkers, have overwhelmingly been Witnesses. Is it any wonder then, based upon my past, that I really can't stand to be around them?
Getting to the topic of my message, it was hounded into my skull from a very young age at the meetings, that we are to remain no part of this world. It meant not following it's customs, traditions, holidays, and basically any practice that could be deemed pagan. I've struggled to find justification then, if we are to remain seperate from these people, why it is justified then that we seek their help when we need a doctor, mechanic, plumber, electrician, lawyer, etc.? Why is it okay to embrace inventions of worldly people such as cars, computers, airplanes, helicopters, and a whole slew of modern inventions (electronic devices) just because it benefits you personally? I know I'm sounding Amish, but I really wrestle with this technology in the organization and I'll tell you why. When I was a young teen, I bought a computer with my sibling and we joked with each other saying, "I wonder how long it'll be before there is a magazine article against it?" It was about 2 years later if I remember correctly. Boy did I cop it. I was made to feel guilty for having a computer and any time there was a part on the meeting about computer use, the old bittys would look over at me making sure this counsel sunk in. The devil's internet which I've been on for 25 years has been warned against countless times.
So when I see the organization frantically embracing this technology, I'm quite frankly jealous. I liked my technology in the day and was made to feel bad about it. I remember the buzz when the announcement of the CD-Rom came out in the 90s. Witnesses suddenly were buying computers in droves because they took it that it was okay for Witnesses to own computers now. I'm just really, really put out that I had to endure a couple of decades of this, and in the end it was all for nought. I've been to a few meetings here and overseas and I'm really shocked at seeing people with their notebooks and devices being used in the audience. It looks to me like a total selling out to the worldly ways of doing things based upon what I was so fervently taught. We were told over and over and over and over and over that you MUST use the Bible, read it, look up scriptures in it, share what the printed page of the Bible says. Not even a photocopy was tolerated, but a worldly invention is okay now? I just don't get it.
Now I'm torn - do I just dimiss this, forgive it, and overlook this as if it never happened and leave myself open to more chastising over embracing some new, leading-edge tech, that hasn't yet been approved? Or do I remember how I was treated and how what was once said, later proved to be false, knee-jerk reactions to a new technology and use this view to temper what is currently understood and taught as mere drivel that could change at any moment or any whim?
I have a very logical mind and have been told by many workmates and people I've met that I'm very bright yet when it comes to religious teachings, I spiral into depths of catch-22s, dead-ends, illogical reasonings, and just flat out things that make no sense that, if I bring them to light to Witnesses, they either give me a blank stare, avoid me, or just try to mask it over by telling me to attend more meetings. I end up on anti-depressants and wanted to kill myself more times than I could imagine. When I don't go, I don't have to take pills, and I don't feel like killing myself.
And despite all of this, I still feel a spiritual need of sorts. I like what the Bible teaches as far as morality, love, kindness, praying, etc. I do not like what man adds to it like service time, multi-layer hierachies, rank, and putting men above one another. I agree with most all of the teachings such as avoiding pagan holiday stuff, but I struggle with the justification of wearing ties that, as I understand, originated in France as a decoration for soliders. How much pagan is okay? Days of the week and months are pagan names, but that is okay, but if I put a Christmas ornament up on my door, I could get in trouble. I struggle with the inconsistancies, the hypocrisy, the changing of what is considered right and wrong, and the lack of anything really stable and reasonable. I've been told I'm a black and white thinker and many of my bosses over the past have told me that. I know it's from growing up as a Witness. They did a good job of hacking my brain to think very rigidly.
So how does a fader as myself, who has a spiritual need they'd like to fulfill at least a little bit among loving, caring, and forgiving people, believes as a Witness (mostly as it's the closest thing to what I believe), but can't stand the Witnesses, nor being around them, suffers depression and anxiety for about 4 days after attending a meeting - how does that person fulfill a spiritual need when the people who claim to follow the same God and same teachings, are acting as a barrier?
I'm thinking that it might be sufficient to get out my Bible and just read exactly what it says. I think if I can forget about the GB and all that malarky with Disctrict and Circuit overseers, Elders, and all that hierarchical good-ol-boys club, maybe I can get a clearer message and maybe a shred of self-esteem. The damage has been done, but I'd like to change something inside of me and try to fix it because so far how I got started out really messed me up.
Thanks for reading...
-silent
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JW Flash Mob
by Listener ina flash mob is defined as a large public gathering at which people perform an unusual or seemingly random act and then disperse.. jws are now in on the act and were doing this in bath on unsuspecting convention delegates during their tours after the convention.
they did this on at least three seperate occassions.. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3hmrqr-k4hq.
here's another one, not so public though.
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silent
What disgusts me is when Witnesses, who claim to be no part of this world, do things like this which is a direct mimic of what they see on youtube. You can bet that the majority of flash mobs as well whoever did the first one, were worldly therefore, what we are seeing here are Witnesses who are being fashioned after this system of things - copying what they see the world do. The spineless jellyfish brothers are sitting around with their goofy grins allowing this to happen. Hypocrites. This is *exactly* what being fashioned after this system of things entails. I'm disgusted.
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Lets list everything that has pagan origins!!
by song19 ini have a feeling i am going to have to explain to my jw folks why i have decided to allow my children to participate in holidays at school.
theyll probably be wondering too why i will get together with our non jw family for the holidays.. .
we know jws avoid holidays because of their pagan origins.
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silent
The necktie has origins in war in Europe. Pretty much any holiday is pagan. Any invention that is made by a non-believer could be construed as pagan. The phones, computers, electricity, automobiles, powered boats, airplanes, and anything that is made by people of other religions is technically pagan. I never could figure out why it's okay to utilitize these "things of the world" but if you don't wear a necktie - you're considered unkempt or disrespectful. They don't wear neckties in African nations - they wear traditional garb and there we go again - putting traditions of men ahead of God. Where do you draw the line and who says just how much paganism is okay and what isn't?
So if it's your culture, is it okay? Who says what cultural things are okay and what are not? Who invented the culture? Why can't I invent my own culture and follow it instead of what some worldly heathen pagan invented?
I create my own culture and follow it. That's the only sure fire way to make sure to minimze pagan influence in your life, but I digress. I still use computers, phones, and cars.
-silent