Good point about illegal aliens qualifying for baptism! I also do go out of my way to not support or hire illegals. Without their legal entry, in time they turn their new place of living into the same cultural cesspool they escaped from. They didn't create the culture and infrastructure in the U.S., but are sure willing to come here and ride on the shirt tails of success while not contributing to it on iota. Eventually their corrupted culture comes out and bingo, you have the same cesspool they wanted to escape from. All that aside, illegals being allowed in the organization is allowing a perpetual law breaker to exist within the confines of the congregation. How do they reason this out?
silent
JoinedPosts by silent
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Illegal immigrants in the organization?
by silent ini had a thought today that might prove interesting.
i'm wondering if there are any illegal immigrants who are witnesses?
surely it would be a great position to be in as an illegal immigrant because you could play up your plight and prey on the sympathies of others within the congregation.
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does the wt always carefully phrase sentences so as to never take blame?
by sowhatnow inim recalling a time when i sat and circled words in a watchtower article, indicating strongly the fact that it is in fact the writters opinion.. however just the suggestion in the sentence these words are ignored.. for example.
it is our understanding.
we believe this to be the case.
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silent
What was quoted earlier: 18 Although the slave class is defined as “faithful and discreet,” Jesus did not say that it would be infallible. This group of faithful anointed brothers still consists of imperfect Christians. Even with the best of intentions, they can be mistaken, as such men sometimes were in the first century. (Acts 10:9-15; Galatians 2:8, 11-14) However, their motive is pure, and Jehovah is using them to supply us with Bible study aids to build up our faith in God’s Word and promises. The basic provision for personal study that the slave has given us is the New World Translation of the Holy Scriptures. It is now available, in whole or in part, in 42 languages, and 114 million copies in several editions have been printed. How can we use it effectively in our personal study?—2 Timothy 3:14-17.
This is where I have a big hang up. It *IS* hard to be a JW. The day to day heckling, goofy looks, people looking at you like you're an idiot/stark raving mad and all the junk and baggage that you must carry as a JW....and then to top it all off, you might just be following something that is in error and they expect you to stick to it to the letter, but ride out their flim-flamming ways. Only THEY can admit their mistakes, (and they never ADMIT it, but make subtle changes without admitting ANYTHING), but if you're not part of the GB, then you are powerless to identify any errors - in fact - pointing out errors means you are an independent thinker and near apostacy. And how many have died on the blood issue - how many deaths did it take to solidify that understanding of scripture? Might this be an error that they can never totally reverse on due to the huge legal backlash? I'm fully convinced they are blood guilty due to an improper understanding of scripture. Then to top it all off, they can all pawn off any personal reponsibility because they decided it as a body and not individually. Then is it Jehovah's fault they made a mistake or theirs? They have basically stated, "We may make mistakes, but take no responsibility for them, and yet we will disfellowship you if you go against any of our counsel that may have later been changed." This is the pure definition of having your cake, eating it too, and never gaining weight on top of it all!
I guess being a Witness isn't has hard as trying to please a dictatorial regime that allows you aboslutely no wiggle room, but gives themselves all they need.
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Illegal immigrants in the organization?
by silent ini had a thought today that might prove interesting.
i'm wondering if there are any illegal immigrants who are witnesses?
surely it would be a great position to be in as an illegal immigrant because you could play up your plight and prey on the sympathies of others within the congregation.
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silent
Actually illegal immigrants are breaking the laws of the new testament if you take Rom. 13:1 as a biblical command to obey the laws of the land. Illegal immigrants are in effect, trespassing. So if I were to trespass on properties all the time and get convicted, fined, and do jail time, I could still be an approved Witness?
It's a double-standard. Illegal immigrants are breaking federal law and to claim to be Jehovah's people and break the laws of the land in clear violation of Biblical standards is proof to me that the organization is not consistent. It's okay to be one of Jehovah's Witnesses while breaking federal laws. It doesn't make sense to me...
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Illegal immigrants in the organization?
by silent ini had a thought today that might prove interesting.
i'm wondering if there are any illegal immigrants who are witnesses?
surely it would be a great position to be in as an illegal immigrant because you could play up your plight and prey on the sympathies of others within the congregation.
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silent
So the congregation accepts and harbors illegal immigrants. Because they are illegal, they don't listen to the GB and go their whatever assembly hall they want to in order to avoid law enforcement. So how can their insubooridination allow them to still be Witnesses?
This proves to me without a doubt that the organization picks and chooses which laws of Caesar they want to enforce on the rank and file - even if it means breaking the law to keep the numbers up.
Disgusting and therefore I reserve the right to conduct my personal affairs in similar manner.
End of story.
-silent
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Illegal immigrants in the organization?
by silent ini had a thought today that might prove interesting.
i'm wondering if there are any illegal immigrants who are witnesses?
surely it would be a great position to be in as an illegal immigrant because you could play up your plight and prey on the sympathies of others within the congregation.
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silent
The fact of the matter is that breaking the law is of interest to the elders and the congregation. You need to have a good report from the outside if you are to be a servant. Even if you're not a servant, how long do you think you'd be allowed to hang around, if as a baptized publisher you were involved in beating up your wife, domestic disputes, trespassing, pointing guns at people, speeding around town, causing mayhem and havoc? At the very least, you would be marked as bad association. And that would just be for some one-time violations - though serious. Illegals are breaking the law 24/7 so if obeying Caesar's law is a biblical mandate (which it is) then you are breaking one of God's laws when you break Caesar's laws as long as Ceaser's law doesn't break God's law.
As far as one of the previous posters said about congregations in Tennesse not reporting anything to the police, then what do you think would happen if during the meeting, one of the congregation members went and rummaged through all the attending member's cars and stole stuff - going so far as "borrowing" their car and taking it for a joyride and returning it at the next meeting? Would this be handled internally or do you think then that maybe they'd be inclined to call the police? If they did, then they would in effect be saying that they won't be calling the police on wrongdoing unless it involves them personally. Basically, picking and choosing the level of infraction they want to report to the law and what they don't - therefore saying some wrongs are okay and other wrongs aren't - court of personal opinion - ultimate kangaroo court!
I guess what this boils down to, if you're a habitual breaker of Caeser's law (ie illegal immigrants), are you still allowed to be in the congregation if you're a baptized witness?
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Illegal immigrants in the organization?
by silent ini had a thought today that might prove interesting.
i'm wondering if there are any illegal immigrants who are witnesses?
surely it would be a great position to be in as an illegal immigrant because you could play up your plight and prey on the sympathies of others within the congregation.
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silent
Blondie: It appears then that according to this 1977 Watchtower article that they practice a don't ask don't tell policy as regards to illegal immigrants. It's a rather passive approach. The do differentiate between God's law and laws of the land. Evidently if it's God's law, it's uber important, but if it violates Caesar's law - even though God's Law at Rom. 13:1 outright says to be in subjection to the superior authorities - then it's not as important?
It really is a double standard and what I'm finding out is that a lot of illegal immigrants are arrogant, have an entitlement mindset, and think they deserve to be in the county they are in. Sounds to me like they would make great elders after all.
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Illegal immigrants in the organization?
by silent ini had a thought today that might prove interesting.
i'm wondering if there are any illegal immigrants who are witnesses?
surely it would be a great position to be in as an illegal immigrant because you could play up your plight and prey on the sympathies of others within the congregation.
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silent
Well stillin - it appears corruption runs rampant. I wonder what would happen if those elders were turned in to the higher ups if anything would come of it. Certainly that would be a cause for stumbling and would be grounds to have those elders removed for wanting to get you to willingly violate Caeser's law. You sure could have a lot of fun with this...
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Illegal immigrants in the organization?
by silent ini had a thought today that might prove interesting.
i'm wondering if there are any illegal immigrants who are witnesses?
surely it would be a great position to be in as an illegal immigrant because you could play up your plight and prey on the sympathies of others within the congregation.
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silent
Tech49: This is really good information. I have some *EXCELLENT* ammunition now. I'll be damned if I'm ever pigeon-holed again on some issue. My SO tells me I have a pretty rock-solid logical mind on things and so not to defend wrong-doing on my part, but if you can prove where there is a gross failure in the power structure, a turning of a blind-eye to wrong doing, you've discredited the entire structure and system and proven that it cannot hold up to scrutiny. This is a great chink in the armor and I'm thrilled to have found this out. The letter you referenced though seems awfully soft though in that they weren't saying these people needed to go back home if they were to be found acceptible to Jehovah. I'd like to see how faithful these Witnesses are when they are told to obey Caesar's laws. Their arrogance towards the laws of the land would be blatantly exposed and they would be shown up for who and what they are.
Thanks for your post. This made my day and I can get a great night's sleep now! :)
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Illegal immigrants in the organization?
by silent ini had a thought today that might prove interesting.
i'm wondering if there are any illegal immigrants who are witnesses?
surely it would be a great position to be in as an illegal immigrant because you could play up your plight and prey on the sympathies of others within the congregation.
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silent
I'd like to know this for a fact OneEyedJoe, but I have a very valid concern (personal) over illegals being allowed in the organization. If they allow this, then I'd like for them to prove to me scripturally how they can allow this in good conscience? This offends my conscience big time and shows they do indeed pick and choose what laws of Caesar they want to honor. Direct violation of Romans 13. Imagine entire congregations of illegal immigrants!!! It harbors them and they are okay with it. It's a great defense for if you get hauled in for some minor infraction, to counter this with entire congregations of people who are committing illegal acts every second - 'round the clock - and the organization does nothing about it. Why is what you've done so hideously wrong as a one-time thing as compared to habitual wrong-doing in the case of being in a country illegally?
If I'm arrested for bank robbery - I guarantee I would get some disciplinary action in the congregation and spend time in Caesar's prison.
If I'm an illegal alien - I'd have to hide out from the authorities or risk deportation. No disciplinary action in the congregation to speak of, but Caesar does have a disciplinary action - deportation.
So if sheer numbers make enforcing deportation difficult for Caesar, but they are trying to deport as many as they can, then I'd say the spirit of the law is one of, "You can't be here illegally."
If there are high numbers of bank robberies, then would it suddenly make bank robbers a tolerated segment of the overall congregation's numbers?
The simple answer is that it's a violation of Romans 13 - they are NOT in subjection to the superior authorities and should not serve NOR should their habitual wrong-doing allow them to even be active members of the congregation. Marking at the very least, shunning, and disfellowshipping if you're going to be consistent. They've broken God's law at Rom. 13 and Caesar's law that Rom. 13 backs up.
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Illegal immigrants in the organization?
by silent ini had a thought today that might prove interesting.
i'm wondering if there are any illegal immigrants who are witnesses?
surely it would be a great position to be in as an illegal immigrant because you could play up your plight and prey on the sympathies of others within the congregation.
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silent
Thus FatFreek 2005 - this is where the child molestation and pedophilia has gotten them in trouble. If someone was caught fondling a young member of the congregation, is their official response then to discipline internally and not report it to the authorities? That would cross a line that Caesar has in place so as they say in the silence of the Catholic church during Hitler's regime - silence begets complicity. If they report pedophilia, but not illegal immigration then they are starting to pick and choose what laws of Caesar to report on and not. That is shaky ground and turning a blind eye to wrong-doing. Interesting to say the least...