Posts by mindmelda

9

5 Ends of the World that came and went (JWs get a mention)

by Simon in

they must be so proud, lol.. the funny thing is that the jw end-of-the-world-ists actually came from a branch of the previous failed bunch.

what losers!.

http://roadtickle.com/5-ends-of-the-world-that-came-and-went/.

mindmelda

If I may quote from the article, which is not only true, but pretty hilarious.

"It would take a hefty monograph to tally up all the prophesied and discarded Doomsdays littering the eschatology of the Watch Tower Bible and Tract Society of Pennsylvania, or Jehovah’s Witnesses.

The Society’s founder Charles Taze Russell, who had only several years of schooling but a great deal of business sense, at first affiliated himself with a group that expected the world to end in 1873. When that did not happen, the date was moved to 1874. When nothing happened in 1874, the group decided that the Second Coming had actually taken place as planned, and that Christ was here in the world, only he was invisible. It was then decided that the actual visible and palpable end of the world would come in 1914. This gave Russell and his colleagues a full forty years to proceed with their mission of saving lost souls without being undermined by their own predictions.

The year 1914 saw the Great War break out in Europe, but the world still refused to end. This was highly inconvenient, because Russell had promised eternal life to “millions” who witnessed the events of 1914. And so after his death in 1916, Watch Tower publications continued to push back the fateful day as became necessary. First it was moved to October 1, 1917. Then to 1925. From the mid-1930s to early 1940s, pamphlets said it was “months away.” Later another delay was effected until September 5, 1975. All the while, the generation of 1914 continued to die off at normal pace, which was making some people antsy. By 1995, Russell’s teaching about its elect immortal millions had to be discarded. These days, a Watchtower tract is likely to talk about Armageddon being seen by the “anointed” whose lives overlap with the lives of those who saw 1914, effectively pushing the end of things many vague decades into the future."

88

Sexual Repression 101. Pure WT Gold: Wednesday's Daily Text.

by Open mind in

wednesday's daily text was a masterpiece.

each sentence just added another layer of sexual guilt and repression.

i could go off for at least another 500 words but i'll stop.. .

mindmelda

Most people won't buy a pair of shoes without trying them on, either, if you need another analogy besides the cow one.

11

DATING A PAGAN: WHY OR WHY NOT?

by White Dove in

a couple of people on another thread said that they would not and do not date pagans.

why not?

.

mindmelda

The pagans had a huge influence on Western Culture. Western culture and even Christianity to some extent is derived in part from Greek philosophy, and they were pagans.

Amazing isn't it? LOL The Christians stole all their good feasts and gods and turned them into saints because the pagans were obviously having a hell of a lot more fun and didn't want to give that up when they converted, usually under duress.

Religion all comes from the same place anyway. Might as well be ecumenical. I never got JW separateness, never made sense to me unless you want to isolate and conquer...oh, right that's why.

47

Leaving Jehovah's Witnesses is a Negative, Depressing Thing To Do, but....

by AllTimeJeff in

over the years since i left jehovahs witnesses, one of the more fascinating things to observe, and really to me, the most important, is what to do after you leave.. to be sure, no one leaves because of a positive experience.

and therein lies the issues with leaving.

basically, people leave in three general ways: 1. they, like myself, resign or leave due to a disagreement.

mindmelda

I was always depressed and anxious as a Witness. A few years of counseling helped me realize it wasn't a coincidence. The teachings of the Witnesses actually were contributing to that. I wrote an article for freeminds.org about PTSD and anxiety disorder and how that was connected to my years as a Witness.

Leaving that behind lowered my stress levels immensely. I had some initial surges of anxiety when I finally quit for good (any big changes in life make me anxious, I'm not good with that), but realizing that your worst fears won't be realized if you leave, that you don't have to live with the constant guilt and cognitive dissonance and that there's nothing wrong with you because you don't believe it all were immensely relieving to me.

I spent a lot of years thinking there was something wrong with me because I couldn't force down that vomit...now, that makes me angry to think about it, but then I get glad again when I realize....it's not ME that is screwed up. Well I am, like nearly everyone else, but I never was screwed up as badly as the WTS are!

I'm to the point now where most days, I even feel pity for most of them, the poor duped things. They really believe that stuff...it's like believing you're on Mars and no one can tell you you're on Earth without you having a conniption. Pitiful, really.

11

DATING A PAGAN: WHY OR WHY NOT?

by White Dove in

a couple of people on another thread said that they would not and do not date pagans.

why not?

.

mindmelda

I have no idea why someone would object, the pagans I know are all pretty nice folks.

I guess some people want to have the same religion as their romantic interests so they won't disagree over it, but half the people in America are married to someone of another faith and for most people, it's not a biggie.

The kids get to have Hanukkah and Christmas, big deal, so what? To most folks. Witnesses are among the few really rabidly dogmatic religions that want all their members to marry in their own faith.

63

Non-practising homosexual JW's

by Quillsky in

jw
friends

as i understand it, being gay is not a sin in the organization, only homosexual acts are sins.

i've never read anywhere that gay jw people are encouraged to "fix" their gayness and marry.. i've certainly known a fair number of confirmed bachelor types who live exemplary lives in the witness sense - one life-long bethelite i knew springs to mind - but are clearly (to me anyway) gay.

they've all been in the closet though.. i wonder if any jw has ever been out of the closet, but not disfellowshipped since they don't have sex?

mindmelda

I know of a few situations like this, but the elders seem to watch them like a hawk looking for any excuse to DF them as it makes them very uncomfortable. It's very much a "don't ask, don't tell" thing as long as you keep it in the closet.

I am sure that most Witnesses believe that homosexuality is some sort of choice or mental condition, something like that, and that marriage to a woman can "cure" it. Ironically, I know a lot of gay men,(not JWs or were ever one) and a good many of them thought the same thing and tried marriage at least once to see if that would fix it. It's pretty hard to go against social expectation and American culture pretty much expects everyone to be heterosexual, in behavior if not inclination.

It reminds me of how we expect everyone to be right handed without really thinking about it. You start to rethink that when you have a left handed child, as I do. It used to drive my daughter to distraction trying to emulate her right handed siblings in doing every day things. But, there was a time in this country when the school system demanded that everyone be right handed for their own convenience. Left handed children were discouraged from using that hand to write with by having it tied behind their backs, something we'd consider barbaric now! (I remember my left handed aunt telling me about how they did that to her in grade school and how humiliating it was...and it didnt work of course...she's still a lefty.)

I had to figure out how to demonstrate to her how to tie her shoes by learning to do it left handed myself...you just have to rethink things a bit, is all, then it's nothing much. *G*

In the recent US Religous Landscape Survey, very broad based, Witnesses included, it was noted rather quietly that Jehovah's Witnesses are by far the most homophobic religion that claims to be Christian. Even Evangelicals didn't rate as high in condemning homosexuality, which most of them openly do, at least to some extent. Witnesses earned a whopping 78% answering "yes" when asked if God and the Bible completely condemn homosexuality.

http://religions.pewforum.org/reports/

http://religions.pewforum.org/reports/#

One fact I love in the report: "Jehovah's Witnesses have the lowest retention rate of any religious tradition. Only 37% of all those who say they were raised as Jehovah's Witnesses still identify themselves as Jehovah's Witnesses."

I actually cheered when I read that.

Also interesting: Only among members of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints and other Mormon groups (57%) and Jehovah’s Witnesses (80%), which together comprise roughly 2.4% of the U.S. adult population, do majorities say that their own religion is the one true faith leading to eternal life. Most Americans also have a non-dogmatic approach when it comes to interpreting the tenets of their own religion. For instance, more than two-thirds of adults affiliated with a religious tradition agree that there is more than one true way to interpret the teachings of their faith, a pattern that occurs in nearly all traditions. The exceptions are Mormons and Jehovah’s Witnesses, 54% and 77% of whom, respectively, say there is only one true way to interpret the teachings of their religion.

Yes, Witnesses get the distinction of being the most dogmatic of all religious groups. LOL Like we didn't know that.

23

"Everything happens for a reason."

by rebel8 in

jw
friends

this is not really a jw issue but rather a xian issue.. when i hear someone say that i feel a physical revulsion and aggravation similar to someone taking sandpaper directly to my spine.. as much as i know human nature...i am still really shocked anyone has the arrogance and stupidity to utter that sentiment.. i mean, ok, if you in your middle class/healthy/suffering-free life can conclude everything in your life happens for a reason, well i pity you...but doncha watch the news?.

the haiti tragedy?

new orleans?

mindmelda

I think you're discussing fatalism which is kind of a "Oh, well, we're doomed and we can't change it because God, the Bible, the fates, whatever, decree it."

I don't think that's very valid thinking either.

But, literally, everything that happens has a cause, but I'm thinking about causality, not fatalism.

I do think every organism or physical feature of the planet exists for a reason, but not philosophically or religiously speaking. Evolution is not wasteful and doesn't accomodate what isn't needed, so everything has a purpose if it's part of a living structure. Geology creates out of logical scientific process too.

But, no, that's not what people mean when they use that phrase, I agree.

159

Getting into Arguments with JW's...

by ForbiddenFruit in

i'm trying to fade away, but i sometimes find myself in discussions or arguments with jw family/friends/white haired virgin elders.

now, i usually have them beat on things but i'm not very experienced, so i was thinking if you guys could help me put together a list of completely unanswerable questions to pose to my jw friends/family/elders so they can stop bugging me.

if i keep asking them questions they simply cannot answer, then they might leave them alone.

mindmelda

Hebrew is conveyed rather crudely in English at times. Nice commentary on that. After you learn a few languages, you tend to figure out that not everything is conveyed literally from one language to another too well.

Translated word for word, there are phrases and idiomatic sayings that make no sense without the cultural context behind them being known to the speaker or reader.

The fact that people misread the Bible as far as blanket condemnation of homosexuality is another good example of that. The terms used make more sense used in the context of the societies that produced them.

Most of the taboos about male homosexuality in the Bible are in reference to temple prostitution or sexual practices that were religious in nature. Sexual was a big part of rituals to some other gods in the cultures around both Jews and Christians and ritual prostitution was not done because of a person's individual sexual leanings or inclinations, it was done out of compulsion as part of religious ritual.

Nothing at all is said in the Bible about committed or lasting relationships of a sexual nature between individuals of the same sex being forbidden, not in context. There are indications that the relationship as described in Hebrew between David and Jonathan that could be interpreted as a sexual relationship, although mainstream religion has been pretty squeamish (and in effect, dishonest) about doing that.

But, if religions were all truly honest in their scholarship, they would consider various meanings as necessary and put them into the proper cultural context even if it offended some sensibilities of their followers.

The word that Paul uses in Greek, "arsenokoites" for instance, that is usually translated "men who lie with men" or "homosexuals" in I Corinthians: 6: 9-11 for instance, is not the usual word that Greeks used used for homosexuals "androkoites". It's a word that was usually used to refer various sexual acts often offered by temple prostitutes (of both sexes), again, more of a religious prohibition than a sexual one.

In 35 A.D., the secular philosopher Philo wrote that arsenokoites referred to temple prostitution while later Christian literature used the word to mean variously prostitution, incest or rape without any single clear meaning. In a treatise on sexual sin attributed to Patriarch John IV of Constantinople in a paragraph dealing with coercive and non-procreative sex, is a sentence that would translate as "In fact, many men commit the sin of homosexuality with their wives".

This may have been discussing the way arranged marriages of the time allowed for a man to have non-consensual sex with their wives on demand (marital rape), and it was still socially acceptable, but he was discouraging Christian men from such acts. Lack of consensuality seems to be the thing emphasized. A prostitute lacks the ability to consent to sex, really, they are sexual slaves or servants to an owner or in that society, to a deity, and that was being forbidden for Christians on that basis.

Anyway, you cannot discuss the languages of the Bible or a single scripture without linguistic or cultural context, and this and the story of Abraham and Isaac are two good examples of how that was done with much harm and misunderstanding being the result.

47

Leaving Jehovah's Witnesses is a Negative, Depressing Thing To Do, but....

by AllTimeJeff in

over the years since i left jehovahs witnesses, one of the more fascinating things to observe, and really to me, the most important, is what to do after you leave.. to be sure, no one leaves because of a positive experience.

and therein lies the issues with leaving.

basically, people leave in three general ways: 1. they, like myself, resign or leave due to a disagreement.

mindmelda

I don't think of myself as "worldly" in the JW sense because it was always used to describe "THOSE" people the ones who God is going to destroy. I never heard any Witnesses use it without their nose in the air and like it was the worst thing you could be!

Of course, I belonged to a congo so self righteous that even other congregations would call them "the Pharisees". No kidding! A whole congo of mostly super Witnesses. argh. You got looked down on if you didn't sell your house and use the money to pioneer, crap like that.

I once even got, "Oh, I'm sorry!" when I told some other Witnesses at an assembly which congregation I belonged to for 25 years. LOL

I wouldn't have any problem with being termed worldy in the way the other 99% of people mean it, sophisticated. LOL

21

Fake Jws

by XPeterX in

here we go:does anybody know any witnesses who got baptised in order to achive something else instead of worshipping jehovah?for example i know a jw who got baptised because his only motivation was to get laid (get married) with a female jw..

mindmelda

I did it mainly to keep my parents happy. I was 16, what else do you do when you're a kid and have nothing else going on?

No one I knew as a teenager who got baptized is still a Witness either, as far as I know.