"Everything happens for a reason."

by rebel8 23 Replies latest jw friends

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  rebel8

  This is not really a jw issue but rather a xian issue.

  When I hear someone say that I feel a physical revulsion and aggravation similar to someone taking sandpaper directly to my spine.

  As much as I know human nature...I am still really shocked anyone has the arrogance and stupidity to utter that sentiment.

  I mean, ok, if you in your middle class/healthy/suffering-free life can conclude everything in your life happens for a reason, well I pity you...but doncha watch the news?

  The Haiti tragedy? New Orleans? Thailand?

  People with cancer? Good people who get into freak accidents or are victims of horrific deaths/crimes?

  /rant over
• 

  ldrnomo

  I totally agree.

  LD
• 

  mindmelda

  I think you're discussing fatalism which is kind of a "Oh, well, we're doomed and we can't change it because God, the Bible, the fates, whatever, decree it."

  I don't think that's very valid thinking either.

  But, literally, everything that happens has a cause, but I'm thinking about causality, not fatalism.

  I do think every organism or physical feature of the planet exists for a reason, but not philosophically or religiously speaking. Evolution is not wasteful and doesn't accomodate what isn't needed, so everything has a purpose if it's part of a living structure. Geology creates out of logical scientific process too.

  But, no, that's not what people mean when they use that phrase, I agree.
• 

  White Dove

  I agree, too. I cringe whenever someone says that myopic statement. It's not a well thought out answer and minimizes tragedy and seriousness of an event. It means: I don't care so get over it.
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  poor places

  I also can't stand that phrase, but for a different reason. I hate it because it doesn't mean anything. It's on par with "it is what it is" for meaninglessness. When someone says that, I always want to say, "And what reason it that?"
• 

  Scott77

  I think it would be appropriate to rephrase it as, 'sometimes, things happen for a reason' That would be ok wih me. Think of a staff being fired, someone becoming an apostate then joining JWN, they had a fight, a car broke down because it was neglected or a relationship broke down. It that phrase can have meaning to certain events that demands a reason as to why thing are the way they are.
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  jaguarbass

  I think many people say it to try to give the person with bad luck hope or to get

  such person off the pity pot.

  But no saying works 100% of the time.

  There are some people that go around saying "man, your fuxd dude".

  Is that better? Even though it may be more true and correct.

  Reality can be very cruel.

  Dark clouds sometimes have silver linings.

  Sometimes something good comes out of something bad.

  You got to keep trucking.

  Hatti and New Orleans happened because those are bad places to live for Hurricanes.

  I've known a lot of people die from cancer who smoked like chimneys.

  Thats a reason.
• 

  gubberningbody

  It's a statement which needs clarification.

  Which "reason" are we talking about?

  • A thing's material reason is the material it consists of. (For a table, that might be wood; for a statue, that might be bronze or marble.)
  • A thing's formal reason is its form, i.e. the arrangement of that matter.
  • A thing's efficient or moving reason [ 2 ] is "the primary source of the change or rest." An efficient cause of x can be present even if x is never actually produced and so should not be confused with a sufficient cause. [ 3 ] (Aristotle argues that, for a table, this would be the art of table-making, which is the principle guiding its creation.) [ 1 ]
  • A thing's final reason is its aim or purpose. (For a seed, it might be an adult plant. For a sailboat, it might be sailing. For a ball on the top of a ramp, it might be the ball rolling down the ramp.)
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  SixofNine

  Yeah, that saying bugs hell out of me too, although...

  Everything does happen for reasons:

  1. Because a person or persons intended it to happen, and then caused it to happen.
  2. Because a person or persons took action/actions that unintentionally caused it to happen.
  3. Because the physical properties of a material reach their limits and fail (most often closely related to #2) causing it to happen, or
  4. Because the physical properties of the earth and/or living organisms cause it to happen.
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  rebel8

  I think you're discussing fatalism which is kind of a "Oh, well, we're doomed and we can't change it because God, the Bible, the fates, whatever, decree it."

  I hadn't thought about that. Interesting--the other, darker side of the coin.

  I think many people say it to try to give the person with bad luck hope or to get such person off the pity pot.

  Yes--therapists call that an invalidating environment. It causes problems and doesn't solve any that I know of. Usually when someone is discussing a personal problem he or she just wants validation, not unsolicited advice or invalidating remarks.

  It's so much easier and more appropriate to say, "Hey, that must be really hard." And then full stop unless he specifically requests advice.

  There are some people that go around saying "man, your fuxd dude". Is that better? Even though it may be more true and correct.

  Yes--validation goes a long way.

  I've known a lot of people die from cancer who smoked like chimneys.

  Believe me I am very familiar with the overwhelming scientific evidence for this. I'm just not sure how in the world it's helpful or appropriate to say that to a cancer patient? Unless you're a sociopath.

  What about genetic conditions? Babies born to suffer.

  The strange thing is this statement is usually made to preach faith in gawd. It does the opposite, doesn't it?