Posts by mindmelda

27

Are you a Binitarian?

by reniaa in

i have had loads of discussion on here with so-called trinitarians that constantly refer to john 1:1 as proof of trinity!

but it only talks about the word (jesus) and the god so what happened to the holy ghost?.

if you only use proof that jesus is divine in your texts doesn't that make you a binitarian?.

mindmelda

They are all aspects of the Divine, and work together. Aside from that, I get a headache thinking too much about the actual nature of a being as powerful as God would have to be.

I tend to think of Christ as the manifestation of God's love that became human so we could draw close to God, the Father as the source of that love. and the Spirit as the outworking of that love.They are all aspects of love, and God is love. That's an easier way of thinking about it for me.

The scriptures that really convinced me was the first chapter of Hebrews. It's undeniable that Paul is applying a quote in Isaiah about YHWH to Christ. It's very direct and unmistakable. Paul felt Christ was the Eternal, the I AM, the human manifestation of the God the Hebrews worshipped for centuries.

Christ makes God intimately accessible in a way that was not available before. We always had the distancing of our imperfection until his sacrifice, which is why it was necessary. Now we are free to approach in freedom.

What's so hard to understand about any of that? It makes more sense to me than Christ being "created" for a specific mission, then delegated somewhere between God and angels. I'm not surprised this "corporate" view of heaven makes sense to JWs, as they're a corporation. They seem to feel everything must be organized like their corporation, even heaven. Are they making the mistake of seeing God in their own image? I wonder. It happens a lot.

To think that God manifested this aspect of himself as human for our sakes makes the sacrifice that much more powerful and personal for me.

13

What's Your Version of The Truth About "The Truth"

by Scott77 in

jw
friends

undoubtedly, many on jwn joined the watchtower corporation after learning the "'truth".

others were born into the "truth".

regardless of reasons for acceptance, the "truth" did became a rallying central theme of our lives over many years.

mindmelda

I started going to the library and reading books about history, religious history, philosophy, religious thought, myth, anything I could get my hands on.

Joseph Campbell's "The Power of Myth" had a really profound effect on me. I began to see that all religions had similar themes and philosophies behind them that seem to come from a common human need or gestalt of thinking.

I could no longer believe there was "one true religion", only a religion that feels true for you.

Since that is quite contradictory to the Witness idea of one true religion with certain very definite characteristics, I realized a lot of other things they teach could be wrong too, and then I deconstructed the 1914 thing. It all falls to pieces without that.

I call myself a Christian now, but I'm a very Universalist Christian, rather spiritually eclectic....or "spiritually incorrect" as one writer puts it.

I'm exceedingly enamoured of Christ, though...his reflection or incarnation of God speaks to me the most. I haven't joined any sort of church yet, may never join anything. I'm still struggling to get WTS issues out of my mind. Its' still pretty hard at times, and triggers my PTSD.

I do find that banishing my fears and panic, flashbacks by invoking Christ's name does work. Whatever works. Perhaps the need for faith in a higher power is my crutch, but hey...better than drugs or booze. Or Koolaid.

25

Got stopped by the Mormons today, very annoyed

by callitquits76 in

jw
friends

hi.. i got caught offguard by the mormons today whilst out walking my dogs.

there were two of them and one called out to me and mentioned something about talking to other people about christ, so i immediately told them i did not agree with them at all and didn't trust any group who suggest theyy are 'the one'.. i spoke for around 20 minutes because i didnt want them to think i was running away through lack of education, and i went over things like how much you can trust joseph smith since he was a raving mason etc and how i thought it was a religion by men for men, but this mormon guy was really smug and basically just answered with a smug nod of his head and replied 'we've prayed to god and he's told us the way to live is the mormon church'.

this was really a cop out and he couldn't answer much, particularly concerning the need for the book of mormon and he knew very little scripture indeed.. the other mormon seemed much nicer and was from germany - a lot more respectful.. but what really got me annoyed was my inability to argue decent points and found myself nodding along trying desperately to think of a counter argument but none came.

mindmelda

I lived around Mormons for most of my life in Wyoming, they're very predominant there in certain towns. They don't focus a lot on doctrine so arguing doctrine with them is usually a waste of time. Occasionally you might meet one that knows their doctrines, but usually not

What they're hooked on is the lifestyle and feeling of connection/family that the religion offers. It was based on the idea of the "eternal family" where one never has to face loosing one's family in this life or the next. Even plural marriage was an attempt to make all members extended family, although genetically, we all are related to some degree anyway!

The Mormons attempted to make this quite literal, though. Families and marriages stay intact through death and are still families of "flesh and bone" with spirit replacing the blood, in heaven. A really faithful family can expect to populate their own planet with earthly children while enjoying being part of a huge extended heavenly family, and the earthly children become connected to by becoming believers.

Telling them that you believe that death ends the marriage vow and you're fine with that or that you're gay will run them off faster than anything.

They don't have any place in their religion for anyone who isn't married or able to nor wants to reproduce/raise children, as marriage and child bearing has become their greatest religious sacrament and expression, really.

PBS ran a really good series on the Mormons and you hear their church apostle saying that very thing....they don't have much room in their church for the single person who wants to remain single, or anyone gay because they can't partake in their church's greatest "blessing".

6

Why was Abraham more merciful and wise than Jehovah?? Giving him advice!

by Witness 007 in

in genesis jehovah is gonna demolish the entire land of sodom and gomorah, due to his "scorched earth" policy.

so abraham gives the almighty his 2 cents worth telling him....don't do it if there is a handful of good folks there....jehovah became "hot with anger" but he decided abraham was correct.....now a 1,000000000000000000 year old being is taking advice from his creation!.

anyone else find this wierd!.

mindmelda

I think most if not all Biblical stories are metaphorical (some have an obvious historical context). The thing I learn from this story and about others God dealt with that were doubters and questioners is that it's all right to question God. Not because he makes errors, but because God knows it's human nature to question and doubt. He knows our nature and does not condemn us for it. Being skeptical is a healthy human trait!

The sin of Sodom and Gomorrah was not homosexuality (although homosexual rape seems to be one of many crimes they perpetrated), but their general attitude of violence towards anyone who came into the city. In those times and in the Semitic culture, a person who did not welcome a stranger but took advantage of him, acted criminally towards him was the worst sort of person.

Apparently, these two cities had that reputation. They were basically being run by violent gangs of cutthroats who preyed unchecked upon every passing stranger.

A lot of things in the Bible seem awful to us because society was so different then. Hey, these people were two hairs from being baboons. They walked around armed to the teeth like Saturday night in Dodge City and were fighting all the time over nearly everything with some other tribe.

The Bronze Age into the Iron Age was a very violent time in human history. Life was generally short, brutal and pretty cheap. The Jewish law actually was quite a step up from the way most people were living at the time, and it's still pretty brutal compared to what we're used to living under.

9

Congregation "Bible Study" Comments - Week Commencing 15 June 2009

by LUKEWARM in

jw
friends

***lv chap.

6 pp.

62-65 how to choose wholesome entertainment***.

mindmelda

Lather, rinse repeat. This is your brain on the WTS.

There's this whole underlying message in that article of "you're too stupid and weak to know what's good for you without Big Brother telling you what to do" that is very Orwellian.

20

Did you find out the hard way the advice - NEVER leave your

by hamsterbait in

never ever leaveyour child alone with a jw?.

i have friends who left their daughter over a weekend with her cousins.

she came back with crying fits, nightmares and general nervousness about the world ending.

mindmelda

In my case, my parents have more to fear from my teenage children. They've left my parents more than once in tears of frustration after a day with Grandma and Grandpa because they fairly easily dismantle my parents attempt to convert them.

I have two brainy rational kids...they have a whole set of questions that JWs just can't answer. I've heard them discussing it, planning what they'll ask if they're asked this or that.

When we lived near them, I've had to go get them early a time or two because my mom in particular just can't take it anymore. My kids are always respectful and well behaved, they just don't put up with the brainwashing. They give it right back to the grandparents, just asking their questions.

Last time, it was about the blood transfusion issue. My oldest daughter had my mother in tears in about two hours after her attempt at indoctrination on this point and my daughter called for me come to get her because Grandma was so upset.

She asked my mom, "Why can't you take whole blood when you can have factions made out of every other part? That's like telling me it' s wrong to eat a sandwich, but it's fine to eat bread, meat, cheese,mayonnaise, pickles, tomatoes and lettuce separately."

My mother had absolutely no answer to this, so did some emotional coercion about "Oh, I don't want you to die if you take blood!" and my daughter just said, "Statistically, I'm more likely to die if I don't." and finally my daughter just got up and called me to come get her.

She wasn't invited over again after that...not alone. *G*

When they were smaller, I'd leave them with the grandparents very infrequently. My dad doesn't indoctrinate and he'd usually take them somewhere with him anyway, because to be honest, my mom can't stand her grandkids for very long most of the time anyway.

8

"Why God Won't Go Away"

by mindmelda in

i've been reading a fascinating book, "why god won't go away" by andrew newberg m.d.

and eugene d'aquili, m.d.

ph.d. newberg is both a physician and an instructor of religious studies, dr. aquili (now deceased, he died before this book of his research was published) was a distinguished psychiatrist.. the book is about the biological and neurological basis for belief in god.

mindmelda

The other interesting revelation in the book is that these transcendent religious experiences are closely linked to the same brain systems that regulate sexual response.

The state is literally akin to orgasm, but more purely mental in nature.

I started wondering if that's one reason that there are two kinds of religion...one that extols the sexual as part of spirituality and the other that sets it apart?

Both are trying to achieve the transcendent state of mysticism but from different directions. Any ritualistic behavior can potentially evoke the mystical response, be it pain or hunger, or simply sitting in one place contemplating a single thought or object, or intense sessions of prayer. But, tantric sex demonstrates, sex can also become a mystical or transcendent experience practiced in certain ways.

Denying the sexual urge produces a similar neurological response, eventually, a kind of neuro overload. It's interesting that the mystical experiences of saints are called passions, where the person claims to experience oneness with Christ.

It also explains the whole Biblical metaphor of Christ and his followers as bride and groom. The transcendence of orgasm signifying joining or the ultimate intimacy is perhaps the most apt metaphor for the oneness some experience in Christ. They may come from a very similar neurological experience, really.

46

"Bearing Thorough Witness" book: New light about Governing Body

by kurtbethel in

they are not your leaders!.

here it is, in print, on page 110 above the picture of "the nine".. "the governing body relies on god's holy spirit for direction.

its members do not regard themselves as the leaders of jehovah's people.

mindmelda

The idea that the GB sitting around in a conference room like any board of directors and voting on issues being how God's channel of holy spirit works on earth makes me want to upchuck my breakfast.

If that's how holy spirit works, then every corporation in the world that operates the same way is just as able to be used by god. What you think some of those corporate big wigs don't pray every day? Adding prayer to a business meeting doesn't make it spiritual.

This is religion as business or the business of religion. That's all it is. It's no more spiritual than the GM bankruptcy and reorganization.

7

Jesus - My Exemplar?

by AK - Jeff in

i do not put much credence these days to the idea of a 'savior' for man, in the sense believed by christianity.

it is not of that which i speak.. i refer to the person, either literal or literary, who is credited with leaving bad religion behind, taking an unpopular stance against it's leadership, and willingly suffering the consequences that follow such course of action.

it matters not if this person can be supported as historically accurate.

mindmelda

I think you have to accept that fact that Jesus, reality or myth, has had the most profound influence on human civilization of any single personality.

The idea of Christ as myth doesn't disturb me at all. Myths have amazing power, and will continue to do so. The question is, will that power be used for something beneficial, such as a teaching of peace and brotherhood, forgiveness and hope or just used as a political and social weapon to keep millions enslaved to outdated ideas?

I'm a universalist, and just because the idea of Christ appeals to me personally, is the face of God I can relate to (probably because of the influences of the time I live in, culture and politics and everything else in my life) doesn't mean I expect Christ to be what everyone in the world relates to.

Spirituality is innate (because we all have a spirit or anima, the force that activates us) and I don't believe there is only one good expression of it. It's got to be different for different people or religion makes no sense at all. I can't believe God would only reveal himself to certain people in one particular way, that's obscene!

32

Your favorite new song......

by restrangled in

jw
friends

rhianna...take a bow.

.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3wxgzjuqpac.

mindmelda

That song is by Marc Cohn and is "Walking in Memphis", another favorite of mine.