Yes, since they are in different congregations, one could have a JC and the other one not. It's all up to the local body and what they decide. Even if the local body doesn't consider it to be a disfellowshipping offense, they can still act against you and remove privileges from you until the situation "blows over". Trust me on that one, I know from experience. My situation was very complicated, but I was given the choice of resigning or being removed (no disfellowship, no reproof) for no other reason than until the situation "blows over", don't worry, you'll be appointed again in six months. It doesn't matter that I didn't do anything scripturally wrong. The local body chose to interpret it as I was no longer without reproof. Once again it's all up to the local body and what they decide.
Razziel
JoinedPosts by Razziel
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41
Do you know of judicial committee cases about a bro/sis who denies to have sex with the confessing one?
by testando inhi people, this is my first post here.
nite for everybody.
i wanna know if you ever heard of judicial committee where an accused bro/sis denies to have sex with a confessing bro/sis.
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What We Owe Jehovah's Witnesses
by Butterflyleia85 inwhat we owe jehovah's witnesses.
by sarah barringer gordon .
published online: january 27, 2011 .
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Razziel
Well I guess once you get past Rutherford's letters to the Nazi's saying their goals were one and the same, and then the change of heart when he didn't get a favorable reply, then sure JW's have done good things for religious freedom!
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Did field service ever scare any one.
by life is to short ini was always scared somewhat by who i might meet at the door.. where i live we just had a mom murdered with her two young sons.
it is really sad, from what i just read in the paper the husband and wife took in this young man he was 22 years old and needed a place to stay.
he had been with them for months and had celebrated christmas and thanksgiving with all the family, etc.
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Razziel
Oh hell yeah Talesin, bookbags were good for that. I remember being at a backwoods not-at-home and turning around with a growling rotweiler ready to bite my ass off. He took a book bag to the face instead and then I ran my butt off to the minivan. GOOD TIMES! /sarc
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Did field service ever scare any one.
by life is to short ini was always scared somewhat by who i might meet at the door.. where i live we just had a mom murdered with her two young sons.
it is really sad, from what i just read in the paper the husband and wife took in this young man he was 22 years old and needed a place to stay.
he had been with them for months and had celebrated christmas and thanksgiving with all the family, etc.
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Razziel
I had householders in rural territory answer the doors with guns on several occasions. They were never "pulled on me" but just the fact they were there was unnerving. I have two experiences that stand out in my mind.
The first was being in a cargroup full of sisters, and driving up to a house out in the country with several men shooting skeet. Since I was the only male in the group, even though I was only 12 or 13, I was sent out alone to talk to these guys, who turned out to be pentecostals, two of them Preachers, who also happened to be drunk and shooting guns. I gave them some mags and left ASAP.
The other occasion was again a group of sisters working rural territory and calling on a compound for "The Republic of Texas". This is an anti-government group that doesn't pay taxes or recognize the authority of the US government, believes US annexation of Texas was against the law, and lives on rural land in Texas. They are watched by the Feds, but are left alone. The entire property was covered in no trespassing signs, violaters will be shot, etc, etc. Again, I was sent out alone to a group of men with guns and drunk. I found out later that they were on the do-not-call list, but the sister who checked out the territory didn't look at the notes on the back.
All things considered, they were pretty hospitable to a pre-teen boy, (I guess they saw me as no threat). But they had AR-15s and shotguns in hand. They had a saddled horse in the driveway, and I was positioned right at his hindquarters. I did notice at the time that the horse was a little agitated at having a stranger standing there. I can't remember exactly what my talking points were, but I know I made some analogy to God and the "remarkable" animals, and then patted the horse right on the ass. All the guys looked at me and started laughing. I didn't know why then, but I do now. It's a miracle the horse didn't buck and kick me right in the face.
They didn't take the magazines but I left them a tract, and thank goodness I was at least smart enough not to go back there for a return visit. I did all sorts of stupid things firstly because I was put in that position, and secondly thinking God would protect me. What an idiot I was.
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Amazing NASA Breakthrough
by metatron injust another one of those technological breakthroughs you might have missed.
huge implications apparent, if you read the article, like curing diabetes (although there was an amazing report from britain that supposedly dead pancreases could be revived to full functionality, elsewhere).
http://gizmodo.com/carbon/.
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Razziel
Excellent. Technology grows exponentially on itself. I have no doubt we will see huge changes in human longetivity in the next couple of decades even with all the ethical issues that scientists and researchers have to dance around.
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Your advice please on "Scriptual Divorce"
by karter inmy ex and i have a legal divorce.. she asked me to write a letter to the b.o.e so she can get a scriptual divorce.. she said she had spoken to the c.o.b.e ans they would take no action against me as i haven't been to a meeting in about 12 years.. my reply "ok get him to put that in writing".
so do you think they will put that in writing?.
and would they take action if i did write the letter giveing her a scriptual divorce?.
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Razziel
Don't do it. I wore the other shoe, and after my Ex left me, she OFFERED to write the elders that I was free to remarry. My dad who is an elder said don't worry, she doesn't even have to admit it, just by the circumstances the elders will decide you are free to remarry. I politely declined both, because it's NONE OF THEIR DAMNED BUSINESS. We obtained a legal divorce and that was all that matters. It's kind of funny that religions require you to get a legal marriage, but then a legal divorce isn't good enough. It's not over until someones reputation is slandered and drug through the mud. I don't care what she did to me, I'm not going to put her reputation through that, even if she no longer cares, and you shouldn't put your reputation through that either, even if you no longer care.
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Do you know of judicial committee cases about a bro/sis who denies to have sex with the confessing one?
by testando inhi people, this is my first post here.
nite for everybody.
i wanna know if you ever heard of judicial committee where an accused bro/sis denies to have sex with a confessing bro/sis.
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Razziel
Number one factor is the local body of elders. If they like you, they'll consider all mitigating circumstances in your behalf. If they dislike you, they'll disregard circumstances and throw the book at you. In some cases they'll consider circumstantial evidence, such as you were alone with her and could have done it, and in other cases when someone denies it, they'll say were there aren't multiple witnesses so there is nothing they can do.
Subtle details become important when multiple people are involved in bad behavior. Who was the instigator? Did the man take advantage of her? Did she throw yourself at the man? Even if it's consensual, the elders will want to assign most of the blame to one person. They'll consider the other person weak. (And honestly in that environment, it usually turns out that way. One person took advantage of the situation even if it was consensual.)
I have several personal experiences but they were not directly related to your situation. In one of them, two guys (not me) were caught smoking marijuana together at a quick build. For the JC, it became important who brought it, and who tempted the other to smoke it. They both said the other guy did it. Nobody will ever know except those two individuals. But the elders took what was presented them, past history of both guys, and what families they came from and chose sides. One was publicly reproved, the other just lost his privileges.
It turns out less than a year later, the guy from the respectable family was arrested at school for possessing and giving marijuana to his classmates. So the elders may have been wrong in their judgement. Once again probably, but who really knows. (I do because I was friends with them, and it doesn't really matter because neither of them were clean.)
In another instance,a sister in her early twenties brought accusations against a teen brother a couple of years after the fact. It wasn't sex, but if it wasn't consensual it was molestation. Still, she chose to bring it up a couple of years later after they had a falling out. He denied it, (I have no doubt he did it, but I'm certain it was consensual) but still got reproved for it and she stayed as a regular pioneer.
It all comes down to your local body of elders. It's best to deny it all together. But the two witnesses rule is applied unfairly. Plenty of elder bodies are all too happy to use circumstantial evidence or the testimony of one person against you if it suits their purposes.
My advice is, (notwithstanding your brother could be a complete asshole and deserves a reprimand, not saying he is, just saying I obviously don't know all the details) if he wants out of the relationship, then get out. If she brings charges against him, deny it. He's wealthy and well liked. The argument can be made that she's being vindictive and that by bringing these accusations, she's hoping that somehow it will make him get back with her or is just trying to ruin his reputation. If he vehemently denies it, it is doubtful that he will get DF'd. But he still could lose any privileges for awhile anyway. And there is always gossip.
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I feel sad when someone relatively new on this board signs off because they have been offended by some posters comments
by smiddy inmany people who" become jw`s" through the ministry are people who are , at the time , in a vulnerable state.
{ lets face it had you been in your right mind you would never have accepted it right ?}.
many of the people who are" born in" are by that very fact vulnerable they never had a chance and were indoctrinated from an early age .. of course their going to have a lot of issues to deal with that history shows can take many years to shake off,if at all.. all i`m saying is i think we should give people a lot more space,and allow them to see the bigger picture that we can show them on this site,give them time to absorb the information thats available on this site,some of the things you learn here is a bit much to take in at first,beleive me i`ve been their .
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Razziel
Wow Violia, that brings back memories. I recall seeing it in a different form, but I'm pretty sure I lurked on a couple of the MMORPG forums that spawned that site. There were some epic flame wars in the late 90's. People were brought together around common interests online that wouldn't have ever associated in real life because of age/culture/philosophy differences. On top of that, people were exercising the newfound freedom to say and write what they truly felt in an anonymous environment without immediate social repurcussions beyond creating a new username.
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How Purposeful And Meaningful Was The Full-Time Service? "Rivers Of Joy, Euphoric Bliss, Better Sex?"
by Bubblegum Apotheosis inramblings of a tired, worn out, book and magazine "pusher".
i am stuck in limbo, reading the watchtower of february 15, 2012, wondering where i went wrong.
how come i am not the happiest person on earth?
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Razziel
I didn't quite make it two years as a regular pioneer. Worked part-time, lived alone as a single brother, and except for Wednesdays and some Fridays it was all whiny, gossiping sisters out in service. I had 40 year old divorced sisters hitting on me, and talking about how age difference didn't matter since we'd all be young in the new system. It has got to be the worst couple of years in my life, and believe me, I've hit some low spots since then. I finally gave up going in afternoon service with the group and trekked out on my own in territories that hadn't been worked in over a year. I was territory servant at the time and knew which ones were never worked.
Few householders wanted to have serious conversations, and most of the ones that did really were only in it for the company. I recognized the people who only took the magazines or had bible studies because they were too nice to tell you to hit the road and don't come back. Usually after a couple of those return visits, I didn't come back. I remember getting that "look" from other pioneers when we needed a return visit to close out the day, and I didn't have any. It's not because I didn't have any according to their standards, I just didn't have any that wasn't a waste of my time and their time. That was a miserable time in my life.
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43
I feel sad when someone relatively new on this board signs off because they have been offended by some posters comments
by smiddy inmany people who" become jw`s" through the ministry are people who are , at the time , in a vulnerable state.
{ lets face it had you been in your right mind you would never have accepted it right ?}.
many of the people who are" born in" are by that very fact vulnerable they never had a chance and were indoctrinated from an early age .. of course their going to have a lot of issues to deal with that history shows can take many years to shake off,if at all.. all i`m saying is i think we should give people a lot more space,and allow them to see the bigger picture that we can show them on this site,give them time to absorb the information thats available on this site,some of the things you learn here is a bit much to take in at first,beleive me i`ve been their .
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Razziel
I started reading message boards on a variety of subjects back in 1997 (It wasn't a JW no-no back then!). This one is quite tame and politically correct. But one thing I've seen over and over again is that anytime a group of people interact, someone always comes along to "stir the anthill" by injecting something controversial or their own personal drama. It doesn't matter if the subject matter is something as mundane as how to quilt afghan blankets, someone still comes along asking about politics, religion, or relationship advice or drops in to troll and says afghan blankets suck. Someone (usually new) plays the protagonist role, there are then several antagonist and apologist regulars who argue back and forth. A few posters try to be "the voice of reason" and play referee, and what they say usually gets lost in the shuffle. If the board is heavily moderated, the thread is locked and if it's not, it usually devolves into a group of monkeys slinging feces at each other, and anybody else who happens to "walk by" the thread. Regardless, everybody gets worked up about it.
We should expect that more on boards like this one where the subject matter is often controversial to begin with, and where many of us have some lingering personal issues from being a JW. I dislike boards that are heavily moderated. As a kid, "peer pressure" was personified as the devil himself trying to make me do bad things, but now I realize peer pressure and peer reactions to your actions serves an important part of teaching you what is socially acceptable.
CE got a lot of sympathy, but she also got a lot of good advice. Because it wasn't what she wanted to hear, or in the tone she wanted to hear it, she took offense, when nothing really offensive was said. Several posters finally gave up and said "well, your just immature and will have to learn life's lessons on your own." It could have been said much more bluntly.
I think adverse peer reactions on message boards like this are good for an Ex-JW. Yes we want to show that people in the world at large are caring and accepting. But if you use faulty reasoning, or say something exceptionally immature, expect to get called out on it. This isn't just a problem with Ex-JWs, there are a lot of young adults entering the workforce who have no experience with rejection, or even people disagreeing with them. And it's not just me that sees this, I get remarks from coworkers including the manager that most of the fresh-outs in their early 20's have to have their hand held and get constant reassurance nowadays.
It used to be that we learned on the playground that sometimes our best wasn't good enough. Try as we might, with the skills and knowledge we had at the time, we came up short. Sometimes we made bad decisions. Sometimes we said stupid things. Did all of our parents, and grandparents develop low-self esteem because of that? No, it taught them to work and study harder, to recognize their strengths and weaknesses, and to move on from rejection or failure. It's sad if you have to learn that lesson on a message board instead of real life, but that may be the digital reality we have now.
On the flip side, many did have parents who were alcoholics, or abusive, or had some other problem. I believe CE said low self-esteem runs in hers. It's dangerous for anyone who says "well this runs in my family." It very well may, but people have the propensity of only living up to expectations and having self-fulfilling prophecies. Did you notice how she wears low self-esteem like a badge and mentions it in everyone of her posts? People who truly have low self-esteem don't advertise it like that, or show the backbone she did once people didn't tell her what she wanted to hear. I'm not sure she has low self-esteem so much as low expectations for herself, which is a problem all its own.
And finally, in my own experience on other boards, once you factor out the trolls, most of the immature "newbies" who get flamed, threaten to leave, but don't, and then slowly grow up as they start to realize the world doesn't revolve around them. Don't be mean, but don't temper or sugar coat the truth too much either, it's an important part of developing social skills and understanding how life really works.