Posts by Razziel

80

Weird Pic in Awake - Jesus Looks Very Pleased About Something.

by cofty in

a new member of the jws forum has posted this scan of a picture in the french edition the april 2011 awake.. i have never believed the subversive wt artist stories but this one is funny.. .

.

Razziel

"Even though it becomes necessary at the beginning to rise a half hour earlier than he could wish."

Well I'm glad I'm not the only one.

108

Are black people more emotional than white people

by barry in

jw
friends

i see in churches in the states standing up in church dancing, clapping their hands and being quite emotional even in a church.

things which that wouldnt be acceptable in australia.. the link below also shows black sda ministers dressed in clergy style dress which is quite unusual for ministers here in australia.. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yynbdm0unsw&feature=g-all&context=g2e791f1faaaaaaaamaas .

could any of my american friends inform me i showed it to my father who is a lay preacher and he was mistified as to what tradition this dress comes from but seems to be concentrated to th eblack community also?.

Razziel

Could any of my American friends inform me I showed it to my father who is a lay preacher and he was mistified as to what tradition this dress comes from but seems to be concentrated to th eblack community also?

Interesting how we all jumped on the thread title and missed this question, eh? I don't know the origins, but a quick check of wikipedia says: "The cassock derives historically from the tunic that in ancient Rome was worn underneath the toga and the chiton that was worn beneath the himation in ancient Greece." So I'd guess this tradition was handed down through the Roman Catholic Church.

190

The Two Trees - My Genesis Ponderings

by cedars in

i've just posted a new blog article to jwstruggle.com on the link below:.

http://www.jwstruggle.com/2012/03/the-two-trees-my-genesis-ponderings/.

the purpose behind the article is to explore my own doubts and long-standing confusion over the genesis narrative - particularly the events surrounding adam and eve's expulsion from eden, and the "two trees" (namely the "tree of life" and the "tree of the knowledge of good and bad").. in my article i discuss my confusion over what the exact properties of the "tree of the knowledge of good and bad" may have been, and the fact that evidently by eating of the fruit adam and eve did not become sinful but more godlike.

Razziel

Ok. I would like to tell you that the tree of "the knowledge of good and bad" was just a tree, it was a fruit tree, but it didn't have any special "properties";

Ok, I agree with you there, but you later disagree with yourself.

I don't want to post too much here from your article, but love is so much more than "an emotional attribute." I've just leave it there.

Well it depends on your definition of love. I like to think it's deeper than just a biological and chemical response to external stimulii, (I.E. it's a conscious decision), but I'm not to sure that's not wishful thinking.

I understand that you think this "tree of life" to have been the source of everlasting life, but this isn't "evident" to me, and this may be because I cannot wrap my mind around the idea of a tree having something that even God's son didn't have until he was granted to have life in himself, and this was after his baptism, This sounds to me like you think of the tree of life as a kind of "magic tree," a tree imbued with properties that could give to anyone that eats of its fruit everlasting life, except Adam didn't know about the tree of life.

So we agree the tree of life was symbolic. Otherwise let's leave Jesus out of it. He wasn't relevant to what happened in the Garden of Eden unless you believe in predestination. As you mentioned, Adam didn't have the Bible, and he surely didn't know about Jesus. Obviously, if Adam hadn't sinned, Jesus' sacrifice wouldn't have been needed. Oh, and the WT says eventually Adam would have gotten immortality if he hadn't sinned. So obviously the means exists outside of Jesus sacrifice, even if it wasn't in the form of a tree.

What "properties"? I don't see a thing that could confuse you here. The Bible doesn't talk about properties.

You know what he's talking about. When a noun is proceeded by adjectives, it's describing properties of the noun. For example, if I say "that douchebag djegnogg", I'm referring to someone who has surpassed the level of jerk or asshole, however has not yet reached fucker or motherfucker.

What's the nexus between Adam and Eve's having been created in God's likeness and the fact that they rebelled against God's rulership by opting for self-rule?

You avoided the question, and attributed God's response to sarcasm. I'm sure there must be another example of God being sarcastic (seriously there must be), but no, it doesn't count when the prophet sarcastically asked if a false god was using the privy.

This was Lie #1.

Well, interpetations of 1,000 yrs and spiritual death aside, they didn't die anytime soon. Inference and interpetations = mental gymnastics.

Adam and Eve were like the teenager that decides that now that he has finished high school and has a job, he can now emancipate himself and move away from home and get his own apartment, so that he no longer has to do any of the chores he hated doing, except he comes to the realization that apartment life means more than just paying the rent. This was Lie #2.

Not the best analogy, seeing as most teenagers move out for some reason along these lines, but eventually have a successful life and don't suffer a death sentence. Still, from my days in JW-land where any sort of independence was devil-induced, I understand the point you're trying to make.

The serpent told Eve that she wouldn't die

It depends on how technical you want to get. God told them they would die in the day of eating the fruit, but evidently he meant a thousand year day. Satan told Eve she wouldn't die that die, and evidently he meant a solar day.

and misled her into believing something to be true about her becoming like God in knowing what is good and bad that clearly wasn't true.

From your own words: "Furthermore, they had become like God"

As I say above, God was being sarcastic when he indicated that they had come to know "good and bad,"
People often read more into the Bible than it says.

Perhaps you are too.

I would suggest that you stop reading things into Scripture that isn't there and this will keep you from postulating things from non-facts.

/lol I know in your mind your interpetations are fact, but you are doing exactly what you warn against when you assign motives, emotions, and intentions to ambiguous passages in God's word.

Evidently Satan had no idea that God has designated any of the trees as a "tree of life," for in that case he would surely have said to Eve instead:

Once again telling us what God would have / should have said.

This might explain the reaction of Adam and Eve to their nakedness.
A guilty conscience would explain their peculiar behavior since they had sinned, they had previously had nothing about which to feel guilty. Adam gave he and his wife away by telling God that they were naked when God had never told either of them that they were naked. With that "confession," God knew exactly what has transpired.

Nothing really explains this. It's one thing to feel guilty for disobeying, it's another to feel guilty for a concept you know nothing about. If they all of the sudden realized that being naked was something to be ashamed of, we go back to the concept of the tree of knowledge having some magical aspect.

You seem to be of the opinion that the fruit that Adam and Eve ate that they should not have eaten poisoned their bodies or changed them in some way, but what is the scriptural basis for such speculation on your part?

Do the semantics really matter? The results are the same. Paradise lost. All descendents grow old and die. Whether the fruit was poisoned by God, or God decreed inherited death, or God terminated the power source, the results are the same.

108

Are black people more emotional than white people

by barry in

jw
friends

i see in churches in the states standing up in church dancing, clapping their hands and being quite emotional even in a church.

things which that wouldnt be acceptable in australia.. the link below also shows black sda ministers dressed in clergy style dress which is quite unusual for ministers here in australia.. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yynbdm0unsw&feature=g-all&context=g2e791f1faaaaaaaamaas .

could any of my american friends inform me i showed it to my father who is a lay preacher and he was mistified as to what tradition this dress comes from but seems to be concentrated to th eblack community also?.

Razziel

Personally, I think one of the reasons the US is one of the greatest nations in history is because we have been a melting pot for all races, cultures, and genders.

I'll attack my own post. That quote might be in danger if conservative Repubs have their way. /snicker Though considering our history, since 1776, we've fought internally every step of the way towards immigration, suffrage, and equal rights.

108

Are black people more emotional than white people

by barry in

jw
friends

i see in churches in the states standing up in church dancing, clapping their hands and being quite emotional even in a church.

things which that wouldnt be acceptable in australia.. the link below also shows black sda ministers dressed in clergy style dress which is quite unusual for ministers here in australia.. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yynbdm0unsw&feature=g-all&context=g2e791f1faaaaaaaamaas .

could any of my american friends inform me i showed it to my father who is a lay preacher and he was mistified as to what tradition this dress comes from but seems to be concentrated to th eblack community also?.

Razziel

I'll bite, and touch the subject with a 10ft anonymous internet pole.

Are black people more emotional than white people? I don't know. What I do know, is there are is both empirical scientific research and genetic differences between races and genders. I wish we could strike a balance about it without being considered either racist or anal-retentive in political correctness. Do some people use that as an excuse to be racist or sexist? Yes. Do some people deny facts because of political correctness? Yes.

Some groups statistically are more prone to certain diseases, are more intelligent, are more athletic, etc, etc. This is even after you control for variables such as education, nutrition, etc. But in all categories, there is a lot of overlap. Enough overlap that stereotyping among races/genders is not justified (usually the difference is just a few percentage points). But it doesn't mean that from a statistical standpoint those differences are non-existant. And it doesn't mean anyone should be denied equal rights, or anyone should be denied the opportunity to live up to their potential.

Personally, I think one of the reasons the US is one of the greatest nations in history is because we have been a melting pot for all races, cultures, and genders.

190

The Two Trees - My Genesis Ponderings

by cedars in

i've just posted a new blog article to jwstruggle.com on the link below:.

http://www.jwstruggle.com/2012/03/the-two-trees-my-genesis-ponderings/.

the purpose behind the article is to explore my own doubts and long-standing confusion over the genesis narrative - particularly the events surrounding adam and eve's expulsion from eden, and the "two trees" (namely the "tree of life" and the "tree of the knowledge of good and bad").. in my article i discuss my confusion over what the exact properties of the "tree of the knowledge of good and bad" may have been, and the fact that evidently by eating of the fruit adam and eve did not become sinful but more godlike.

Razziel

I got to this thread late. My first thoughts expand on james_woods mention of "free will" and tec's mention of "knowing the difference between good and evil". Eating the forbidden fruit is the first mention of humans exercising free will ,right? And the difference between "knowing good and bad" could mean understanding the consequences of good and bad actions? Or it could mean losing your innocence and naivety?

Isn't that the price that most people pay for "learning the hard way"? The consequences of poor decisions catch up to you, and at the same time you destroy once-in-a-lifetime opportunities. (innocence, health, familial relationships, criminal record, etc.) Knowledge and understanding gained from bad decisions and experiences often exacts a price on your health, future success, or standing in society (symbolized by the tree of life?), all of which were ruined in Adam & Eve's circumstances.

34

Tell me---We all have regrets about being in the organisation,what's yours?

by MsGrowingGirl20 in

what is/are your regrets?

do u wish that you'd have pursued something or dealt differently with a situation?.

Razziel

I've been able to make up for most of my regrets after leaving. One thing I really regret though is missing out on high school sports, particularly football.

24

How did you visualize Jehovah when you were young?

by Matsimus in

i was born as a third generation (perhaps even fourth gen. but my great great grandfather never got baptized) jw.

i remember that when i was young, perhaps about five years old, i would think about jehovah as this big black ghost with yellow eyes.

to me he was quite frightening, and i was constantly catious not to piss him off.

Razziel

Zeus with a lightning bolt in hand. Ready to electrocute my ass if I jacked off or had impure thoughts.

11

The lying upper class??

by darthfader in

interesting article:.

http://news.sciencemag.org/sciencenow/2012/02/shame-on-the-rich.html?ref=hp.

the team's findings suggest that privilege promotes dishonesty.

Razziel

There's a sucker born every minute. There's also a liar/exaggerator/embellisher (whatever you want to call it) born every minute. The point of the research is to find if certain classes have a greater propensity for it.

Do the results really suprise anyone? I won't defend the third test in the article, but I find the first two very in touch with reality. Intelligence, merit, hard work and ambition go a long way. But so does embellishment. Intelligence, merit, and hard work particularly is generally enough to ensure you make enough to pay the bills, but in most business environments that won't get you above middle management. If you want to make it to the top, it takes the ambition to aggressively pursue it, a little well-timed embellishment to accentuate your accomplishments, and a little luck. Hard work and intelligence alone won't get you there unless it falls in your lap, which is next to never.

Especially in the test with the dice, I don't consider that lying (though technically it is). It doesn't matter how smart you are, you have to sell yourself and your abilities to get ahead. You have to portray yourself as a "winner". You need to have the ability to step in dogsh!t and come out smelling like roses.

22

Are you a pecker?

by keyser soze in

jw
friends

or do your fingers move fluidly across the keyboard when you type?.

i admit, i'm far more proficient with letters than i am with numbers and symbols..

Razziel

Our high school required us to take a typing class as an elective. I'm embarassed to say I won the award for fastest typist at the year-end school awards ceremony. 112wpm. A few years back, after getting laid off, I had to take a typing test at the unemployment office. Dropped down to the 90's. I'm probably sub-80 now, I don't type as much as i used to.