This is hard. Rutherford did not put the 606 - 1914 date out there - Russell did. At one time archeaology was convinced that Babylon was destroyed in 536 BC. That puts the destuction of Jerusalem at 606 BCE (70 years of captivity). The 1914 date is really based on measurements of the Great Pyramid. Russell was one the foremoste pyramidologists and zionists of his day. (Interesting to google). He used the 7 times of Daniel to back up the pyramid's prophecy of "the gentile times". That is 2,520 days/years from 606. That is 1914 (if you don't know what you're talking about - 0 year). The question no one could answer is this: "Why do JWs think Daniel’s “seven times” prophecy has a fulfillment beyond Nebuchadnezzer’s seven years of insanity?" This is a prophecy that Daniel gave about the King that miraculously came true. Why add to the scriptures to make it about the "Gentile Times"? I do have a copy of "Studies in the scriptures" if you would like any further info I could research it. Allelsefails - (like if all else fails try something that makes sense)
allelsefails
JoinedPosts by allelsefails
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607--1914 chronology origin and modifications summarised
by jeandeau ini am interested in summarising how rutherford and the wts originally set forth the 607 (606) -1914 chronology.
this is hidden from witnesses today and only a sanitized "trimmed for easy consumption" version is taught to avoid "confusing" the faithful.
for thirty years the questions ate a larger and larger hole in my gut as a jw as it became more evident that the full truth was not being revealed to us for ulterior motives.
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A LOOK INSIDE BETHEL LIFE, THE ORGANIZATION BEHIND THE NAME
by Bethelite Elder inwhen i first came to bethel, the going reassurance was that if you stayed more than 5 years, you would be considered permanent.
many of the bethelites bought into the idea and stayed many years.
however, a few years back they had a test of faith.
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allelsefails
Welcome to the forum. I'm pretty new here. I never went to Bethel, but the way ex-fulltimers are treated is disgraceful. I hope you will post your whole story and let us know you. Just ask if you have questions about how to use the site and see others posts/stories. All my Christian love to you. Allelesefails (Like when all else fails try something that makes sense!)
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How many TOTAL members are here on JWN?
by BonaFide inam i missing something?
maybe i am not looking in the right spot, but i would like to know how many members are on here.. am i allowed to ask for the amount of"active" members?
ha ha.. i would like to know though.. anyone?.
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allelsefails
I think it depends on who has posted regularly for the last 6 months. If they haven't posted in 6 months then they are inactive. Don't even know who they are. Your irregular posts need some encouragement to keep posting, obviously yhey need some encouragement to keep posting "regularly". Sorry - I was Secretary for a while.
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An elder I know was accepted to be an International Delegate -$9,000 for 2 people!
by BonaFide inhe is an elder, and he and his wife were "accepted" to go to south africa.
including airfare, hotel, food, general tours, it comes to $9,000.. have any of you experienced this or seen this before?
i was out of the country for some years, so i haven't kept up with prices of being a delegate.. so, if they were to go without the "international delegate" designation, would it still be $9000?.
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allelsefails
Both my sons are going to go as "delegates" to international conventions. I loaned one of my sons the money to go $2,500 for 2 people - Going to Germany. But that is just airfare and hotel (hope they don't need to eat). They do not stay with somebody locally. They are trying to sell one of their cars to pay me back. I know I'm enalbling them, but if it makes them happy.... I love my kids unconditionally, if they want to be Jwitnesses, mormons, moonies, Catholics (ahhhh) I love them just the same. What's it to me? I don't believe in anything like that anymore. I did know someone who went to an ineternational convention w/o being "a delegate". If you show up and go they will let you in. It is like any other convention - no security. MOst of the cost is in the airfare - just like any vacation. Allelsefails
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Did you come here on JWD/JWN because of congregation injustice?
by asilentone ini did, but i have never told my story, i could not tell you my story here because it would be too revealing as to who i am.
if i did not experience like what i have experienced, i would probably avoid those damn apostate sites like this site!
well, i think it is a blessing for me to join this site because i have learned alot!
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allelsefails
I have experienced a lot of injustice, but that is not what sent me here. I always thought "these are imperfect men, Ishouldn't be mad at Jehovah". It was when I examined doctrine that I went running. You know - actually read and studied the bible all on my own. This will probably give me away to any spies, but I don't care: A married elder in my cong wrote pornographic e-mails to a married sister telling her what he wanted to do to her (very explicit) We agreed as a BOE to remove him, but when the CO talked to us a few weeks later he suggested we be lenient (he never read what was written). And everyone immediately changed their vote (except me). The CO said to me "Is there anything we could help you with to make this unanimous?" I said no one who read the things he wrote could think he was qualified. Of course no one cared about my scriptural objection just the COs statement. A few years later this same elder hit on my wife and offered to run away with her when she left me. Then he told my sister (who is a bit "busty" - I admit uncomfortably) that if she was too warm in the hall she should take her shirt off! Again I recommended his removal and the other elders decided there was a problem with me. I didn't act fast enough. The CO (different one) did finally recommend his removal after my wife and sister made a stink. That's enough for now, but I hope you know your not alone. Injustice is built into any legalistic system, just like the Pharisees of Jesus' day. LOVE is the identifier of God's people. Not politics and legalistic Garbage. The JWs got 1 thing right: Religion is a anare and a racket.
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Need help: JW friend links every NT teaching to 144,000 only
by whyizit inyou know what i mean: every time she reads a passage in the nt, she instantly applies it to the 144,000 chosen anointed ones.
even though there is absolutely no reason whatsoever to make that connection.
i have even asked how her gurus have made that connection biblically.
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allelsefails
For me the most compelling response I have used is to center on the 1918-1919 "selection" of the FDS. Ask her to show you what teaching unique to JWs was "proper food" being dispensed in 1918. I use 9 points all central doctrinal things.
1 The "Last Days" started in 1799 and the 1800’s were the worst time period of all history
2 That Jesus had begun ruling in 1874
3 That the end was going to come in 1925
4 That Jesus should be prayed to and worshipped as well as Jehovah
5 That the Great Crowd were a heavenly class
6 That birthdays and Christmas were acceptable celebrations and displaying the flag was acceptable
7 Society used symbols and ideas from pyramidology and astrology especially in support of 1914
8 Strong Zionist support for a new nation of Israel in fulfilment of Bible prophecy
9 That the Faithful and Discreet Slave was not the anointed, but rather Pastor Russell
It would be way too long to put all the WT pub. quotes with each point, but I do have a word doc (7 pages) with 2-5 quotes for every above mentioned point. The thing I like about this approach is that no one can say it is apostate to quote Russell and Rutherford - even though they would both be apostates if they were around today. These quotes require no explanation they are up-front blatantly wrong according to JWs today. So If Jesus did not select them in 1918 then they have not been appointed over all his belongings and have no real authority. I find it easier to get someone to listen if you don't attack the individuals in the GB, but just undermine their claim to authority. Some will listen, most cannot.
PM me if anyone would like to be sent a copy of my research. Like I said it is just WT quotes, nothing original (most plagerized), but I would love to share.
You can't refute the idea of applying NT scrips to 144k unless the GBs authority is in question.
Thanks for your post. "Good luck " on helping your friend (Am I allowed to say that now?).
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New Guidelines for this Forum - Please take notes
by BonaFide inwe are happy to inform you of some rule changes on this forum.
we do not want to give the impression they are rules, so we will use the term guidelines.
at present, some are using this forum to express their own opinion.
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allelsefails
OOps I just got a call about my last post, but I might be OK because my dad is a long-time poster.
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New Guidelines for this Forum - Please take notes
by BonaFide inwe are happy to inform you of some rule changes on this forum.
we do not want to give the impression they are rules, so we will use the term guidelines.
at present, some are using this forum to express their own opinion.
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allelsefails
Definitely the funniest (and saddest post) I've read. How many times I've heard something in a meeting or at a convention and just ...... not thought at all. Now that I think for myself I'm embarrassed to have ever been apart of subjugating others thinking or conscience. Thanks for the humour it helps. Allelsefails (like when all else fails try something that makes sense?)
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My JW Daughter sends a Letter to us Explaining her Shunning of Me
by flipper inmy wife and i sent my 22 yr.old pioneer witness daughter and her husband a anniversary card and $ 40.00 and flowers the end of april.
my daughter wrote mrs. flipper and me each our own individual letters thanking us initially for the gifts - and then went into detail as to why she has not spoken to me for over a year and shunned me.. keep in mind as i paraphrase some of the highlights to these letters that the only negative thing i have said about the organization to my daughter in 3 years was to show her the ap news release about the child abuse settlements by the wt society .
i'll quote parts of the letter to mrs. flipper first :.
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allelsefails
Thanks for your post. Truly I feel for your struggle and I hope for the best in freeing your daughter's love. I do hate the idea that leaving the WTS is leaving Jehovah or loyalty to Jehovah means loyalty to WTS. This is a blatant and pervasive form of mind control. However it sounds like your daughter has enough of a brain to think for herself once she gets a little freedom. My prayers are with you. (for what that is worth)
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The "swagger" of the Organization is gone - or is it my imagination?
by BonaFide ini am in my early forties.
grew up in the truth.
i remember talks at the assemblies by the governing body in the 80's.
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allelsefails
Definitely true! Even the GB is backing off a little bit. More articles that allow for more personal choice. A few examples: There are no articles about private matters between married couples for many years. More statements like "no need to be dogmatic" LOL. They are trying to hold onto their power without pushing everyone away. It is a funny balancing act to watch. If you look at most of the really crazy and controversial quotes they are over 10 yrs old, but the bOrg has not actually changed those teachings - they just don't repeat them. According R.Franz this is what they do to teachings on their way out ..... we'll see. I would love to hear "we don't know" from the GB. There are so many good R&F JWs that could be helped if "control" part of JWs was relaxed. Thanks for your posts. Very thought-provoking. Wait isn't thinking apostate?