Posts by allelsefails

75

Ok have you ever been asked this question in regards to Isaiah 43:10 ?

by StoneWall in

how could god have always existed since it plainly says near the end of that verse before me there was no god formed?.

here is the quote from the nwt and i also looked it up on numerous other translations and they all used the word before.. .

isaiah 43:10. you are my witnesses, is the utterance of jehovah, even my servant whom i have chosen, in order that you may.

allelsefails

Have you tried Biblos.com? It a greta tool for comparing translations and examing the actual Hebrew/Greek - without going to school for 8 years yourself.

280

Jesus.....God or God's son?

by digderidoo in

following on from a post of sacolton's on a recent thread.

i hope he doesn't mind me cutting and pasting it as i want to examine it.. was jesus our god?

consider these two scriptures:.

Reniaa - So we can't trust the bible we have today? I agree, but that is a different thread entirely. I do not use proskuneo as "proof" of divinity. John 1:1 - "the word was divine" or more proprerly "of the same nature as God" [look it up outside JW material before you tell me I'm wrong]. ...... You wrote - "I do know there are many uses of it in the Greek scriptures that are not just for Jesus and God so even if you have only once (and I know it is more than once) where it is used for someone other than Jesus and God as obeisance you cannot use it as proof text of divinity" ..... You obviously haven't studied it in depth. I'm telling you it is not used in reference to anyone else. Prove me wrong if you must. It is used as "worship" of a false God in Acts (obviously in a negative light) And in a parable - that refers to Jesus (in Matt.). Several times in Revelation where it always means "worship" - the Dragon the Wild Beast - in a negative light. [Not counting the not-inspired Sept. of course]

75

Ok have you ever been asked this question in regards to Isaiah 43:10 ?

by StoneWall in

how could god have always existed since it plainly says near the end of that verse before me there was no god formed?.

here is the quote from the nwt and i also looked it up on numerous other translations and they all used the word before.. .

isaiah 43:10. you are my witnesses, is the utterance of jehovah, even my servant whom i have chosen, in order that you may.

allelsefails

Spike - cross references are things added by the publisher of the bible - not part of inspired scripture. The fact that Your bible refernces 2 verses together is meaningless. "You need the power of Holy Spirit" = "I can't rationally examine this and explain it so I'll just say I'm right"

280

Jesus.....God or God's son?

by digderidoo in

following on from a post of sacolton's on a recent thread.

i hope he doesn't mind me cutting and pasting it as i want to examine it.. was jesus our god?

consider these two scriptures:.

allelsefails

Reniaa - you don't understand what I am saying. I know there are many different positions being expressed here it is hard to keep them straight. I don't think Jesus is GOD! Those are the other people debating with you. I believe what the bible actually says. If you look at your quote from Strong's it says proskenayo in Sept. (Septuagint - non-inspired translation of Hebrew scriptures) can mean other things. However the word in the inspired Greek scriptures only applies properly to Jesus and Jehovah. I do not believe words are left up to the translators "preference". The bible says what it says in the original language. To trust any single translation is trusting men not Jesus or Jehovah. The New world translation is not accurate in many ways - in some ways it is. NO ONE thinks it is an "inspired translation" - not even JWs. The Greek word "means bowing down to" but translates into English as worship. Do you want Scriptural quotes of Jesus being prayed to? (Again nice side step of the article I quoted. You're good at ignoring the points you don't want to repond to.) ........ Jesus is the Son he was created by God (his firstborn, beginning of creation) Jesus created all things as God's master worker. He was taught, trained, given responsibility, given abilities, all by the Father. After his ressurrection he was given a new position of rulership. He was to be worshipped, prayed to, obeyed.

280

Jesus.....God or God's son?

by digderidoo in

following on from a post of sacolton's on a recent thread.

i hope he doesn't mind me cutting and pasting it as i want to examine it.. was jesus our god?

consider these two scriptures:.

allelsefails

Reniaa - Right. And the eact same word is used for God and Christ. So why would a translater think he has the right to translate the word differently in different places. It shows how JWs have changed the bible to fit their beliefs in this case. They even changed the NWT several times since the original translation. including Hebrews ....... *** w54 5/15 p. 318 Questions From Readers *** In the New World Translation we note that when this Greek verb pros·ky·ne'o is applied to Jesus as a man on earth or materializing as a man after his resurrection, it is translated “do obeisance.” However, when referring to the glorified Jesus in the invisible heavens in the presence of the holy angels, the New World Translation makes a change and renders pros·ky·ne'o as applied to him by the English word “worship.” (Heb. 1:6) This is properly and consistently done. This Greek verb occurs only twice in the book of Hebrews, here at Hebrews 1:6 and at Hebrews 11:21 where Jacob is described as worshiping Jehovah God: “By faith Jacob, when about to die, blessed each of the sons of Joseph and worshiped [pros·ky·ne'o] leaning upon the top of his staff.” (NW; referring to Genesis 47:31, where the LXX also uses pros·ky·ne'o) So in the book of Hebrews pros·ky·ne'o is both times rendered “worship” and the angels of God are instructed to “worship” the glorified Jesus. Why is this? Because Jesus has been made so much higher than the angels, even higher than he was before he became a man on earth. (Phil. 2:5-11) It is the command of Jehovah God that they do this toward his Son. What does this mean? This, that even the angels are to render their worship of Jehovah God through Jesus Christ, whom Jehovah God has made the Head of his universal organization. That is why it is stated on page 85 of the book “Make Sure of All Things”, column 1: “Christ to Be Worshiped as a Glorious Spirit, Victorious over Death on the Torture Stake,” with three scriptures accompanying to prove that he is now a glorified spirit, and now no more flesh. Hey something I agree with the JWs on - the ressurected Jesus should be worshipped - Why? It is the Command of Jehovah.

10

What does the WT say about 1 Cor 14:34?

by asilentone in

i would like to see the wt article about it.

thanks!.

allelsefails

The QFR is from w06 3/1 28-29. Basically Paul didn't mean what he said there. Use the scriptures in this article to ask a JW why sisters are not allowed to pray in the congregation in front of men. The article clearly shows they did in the first century but with a "head covering". ........... They will never recognize that the masoginistic crap in Paul's writing was added later or should disqualify the writings as being in the canon. Jesus never taught such nonsense - He rejected those traditional Jewish ideas that Paul seems to relish in.

10

What does the WT say about 1 Cor 14:34?

by asilentone in

i would like to see the wt article about it.

thanks!.

allelsefails

Questions From Readers What did the apostle Paul mean when he stated that women should “keep silent in the congregations”? Paul wrote to the Christian congregation in Corinth: “As in all the congregations of the holy ones, let the women keep silent in the congregations, for it is not permitted for them to speak.” (1 Corinthians 14:33, 34) In order for us to understand this correctly, it is helpful to consider the context of Paul’s counsel. In 1 Corinthians chapter 14, Paul discussed matters relating to meetings of the Christian congregation. He described what should be discussed at such meetings and recommended how they should be conducted. (1 Corinthians 14:1-6, 26-34) Further, he stressed the objective of Christian meetings—“that the congregation may receive upbuilding.”—1 Corinthians 14:4, 5, 12, 26. Paul’s instruction to “keep silent” appears three times in 1 Corinthians chapter 14. Each time, it is addressed to a different group in the congregation, but in all instances, it is given for the same reason—that “all things take place decently and by arrangement.”—1 Corinthians 14:40. First, Paul said: “If someone speaks in a tongue, let it be limited to two or three at the most, and in turns; and let someone translate. But if there be no translator, let him keep silent in the congregation and speak to himself and to God.” (1 Corinthians 14:27, 28) That did not mean that such a person was never to speak at meetings but that there were times when he should be silent. After all, the objective of the meetings—to upbuild one another—would not be attained if he spoke in a language no one understood. Second, Paul stated: “Let two or three prophets speak, and let the others discern the meaning. But if there is a revelation to another one while sitting there, let the first one keep silent.” This meant, not that the first prophet was to refrain from speaking at meetings, but that he had to be silent at times. Then the one having the miraculous revelation could address the congregation, and the objective of the meeting—that “all be encouraged”—would be achieved.—1 Corinthians 14:26, 29-31. Third, Paul addressed Christian women only, stating: “Let the women keep silent in the congregations, for it is not permitted for them to speak, but let them be in subjection.” (1 Corinthians 14:34) Why did Paul give this command to sisters? To preserve order in the congregation. He says: “If, then, they want to learn something, let them question their own husbands at home, for it is disgraceful for a woman to speak in a congregation.”—1 Corinthians 14:35. Perhaps some sisters were challenging what was said in the congregation. Paul’s counsel helped sisters to shun such a disorderly spirit and humbly accept their position within Jehovah’s headship arrangement, particularly with regard to their husbands. (1 Corinthians 11:3) In addition, by keeping silent, sisters would show that they did not aspire to be teachers in the congregation. When he wrote to Timothy, Paul showed that it would be improper for a woman to assume the role of teacher: “I do not permit a woman to teach, or to exercise authority over a man, but to be in silence.”—1 Timothy 2:12. Does that mean that a Christian woman must never speak during a congregation meeting? No. In Paul’s day, there were occasions when Christian women, perhaps impelled by holy spirit, prayed or prophesied in the congregation. On such occasions, they acknowledged their position by wearing a head covering. (1 Corinthians 11:5) Further, in Paul’s day and today, sisters along with brothers are urged to make a public declaration of their hope. (Hebrews 10:23-25) Besides doing this in the field ministry, sisters declare their hope and encourage others during congregation meetings by giving well-thought-out comments when invited to do so and by accepting assignments to share in demonstrations or student talks. Hence, Christian women “keep silent” by refraining from trying to assume the role of a male and instruct the congregation. They do not raise argumentative questions that could challenge the authority of those who teach. By fulfilling their proper role in the congregation, Christian sisters greatly contribute toward an atmosphere of peace in which “all things [at congregation meetings] take place for upbuilding.”—1 Corinthians 14:26, 33. [Footnote] In modern times, mature sisters follow that example when, because of circumstances, they have to substitute for a baptized man in a congregation setting.—See The Watchtower, July 15, 2002, page 26. ........

10

What does the WT say about 1 Cor 14:34?

by asilentone in

i would like to see the wt article about it.

thanks!.

allelsefails

They pretend it is not there. Basically. I'll look for an article, but it is amazing how they can build an entire idea of modern organization from the mispplied parable of Matt 24:45-46 FDS - but refuse to follow this scriptural command because it would be embarrassing to do it.

280

Jesus.....God or God's son?

by digderidoo in

following on from a post of sacolton's on a recent thread.

i hope he doesn't mind me cutting and pasting it as i want to examine it.. was jesus our god?

consider these two scriptures:.

allelsefails

Reiaa - I agree with a lot of your points here on Jesus statements about himself, but we are supposed to be witnesses of Jesus. After Jesus' ressurrection he was to be worshipped. (Again same Greek word as "worship" God") Do you want the list of scriptures that support these positions? Or can you answer these points. .................... It is kind of funny how you skip all the points you don't have an answer for and claim that one scripture reveals the entire truth of the matter, when other scriptures must be considered.

280

Jesus.....God or God's son?

by digderidoo in

following on from a post of sacolton's on a recent thread.

i hope he doesn't mind me cutting and pasting it as i want to examine it.. was jesus our god?

consider these two scriptures:.

allelsefails

I might not have answered your question. Yes Deut6:4-5 is awesome as is 12:29-30. Remember the relationship of Father and Son is Father gives life to Son. But it also means Son is equal in capabilities to the father, just not in position.