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  40

  Are These the Last Days?

  by individual in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  does anyone who has left the organisation still feel that these are the last days?

  all down through history people have wanted to feel that they live in special times - are jws just an extension of this?

  for me the biggest problem with this theory of the last days has been the distinct lack of earthquakes since 1914, a quote from the book signs of the times revisited says "as more and more seismographs are installed in the world, more earthquakes can be and have been located.

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  individual

  To Fred Hall

  The only reason I have been stuck on 607 is because it is the cornerstone of the JW belief system.
  To the society, Daniel 11:35, if memory serves me right, was fullfiled by the breakaway during the early years of Rutherford.The society normally changes things when it becomes obvious that their previous beliefs are false, they dont change things because of a love of the truth. The change in the generation shows this, time was up and nothing had changed. This was not altered because of a love of the truth. The refusal to acknowledge the evidence for 587 and therefore the knock on effect on 1914 is another example, if they loved truth they would seriously consider reassessing this doctrine regardless of the consequences.
  The rigidity of their holding onto their central doctrines, some of which have been brought under question, shows a lack of regard for the real truth that I am sure God has noticed.
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  23

  The Last Days in the 14th Century

  by JanH in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  the last days in the 14th century .

  all through recorded history there have been people who have pointed to the calamities, horrors and disasters in the world, and preached that this signified an imminent end of the world.

  this isnt even unique to christianity, which started off with strong millennial expectations in the 1st century, and for the most part retains the same expectations almost 2000 years later.

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  individual

  You Know
  I think that you will find that none of the signs that the organisaton looks for have been fulfilled. For example earthquakes, since 1914 they have decreased, famines were far worse in past centuries and diseases ravaged mankind to a far greater extent in the past. If the best the society can do is point to their own preaching work then that is a bit sad.
  Looking at the evidence it is suprising that anyone still follows them.After all they are wrong about 607, so how can the last days start in 1914, and they were proved wrong about the generation - nothing happened and they only changed this doctrine once their promises failed. Living in expectation of the end and the death of humanity is a fruitless exercise.
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  40

  Are These the Last Days?

  by individual in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  does anyone who has left the organisation still feel that these are the last days?

  all down through history people have wanted to feel that they live in special times - are jws just an extension of this?

  for me the biggest problem with this theory of the last days has been the distinct lack of earthquakes since 1914, a quote from the book signs of the times revisited says "as more and more seismographs are installed in the world, more earthquakes can be and have been located.

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  individual

  To Fred Hall

  If we were blind we would not have spotted the societies problems with 607 and with its continuing assertions of increased earthquake activity as a sign of the last days.
  Nothing stacks up.
  Are you blind?
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  40

  Are These the Last Days?

  by individual in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  does anyone who has left the organisation still feel that these are the last days?

  all down through history people have wanted to feel that they live in special times - are jws just an extension of this?

  for me the biggest problem with this theory of the last days has been the distinct lack of earthquakes since 1914, a quote from the book signs of the times revisited says "as more and more seismographs are installed in the world, more earthquakes can be and have been located.

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  individual

  Yadirf

  Interested by your comment on the refinements that are due to happen to the societies understandings. How do you know this? Is this just what you are expecting or is there more to this?
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  29

  Accuracy of Bible Translation

  by ruffian in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  i am trying to find out more on the translators of the jw's bible.

  they claim and so it claims in the front of their bible that it was translated by experts in greek and hebrew.

  what training if any did these people actually have in these ancient languages.

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  individual

  If you want proof of inaccuracies in bible translation just look at scriptures in the Greek (NT) that refer, or quote from scriptures in the Hebrew (OT) and see how different they are. The first time I came across this problem was during a public talk when a scripture in the Greek was read and I noticed that it was a quote from the Hebrew scriptures. I read the Hebrew scripture and it was nothing like the one in the Greek. The NWT includes cross references, where the scripture is obviously a quotation i.e is being read from a scroll, just compare the two and note the differences. I did some research on this and I found it depended on what scroll they were using.

  So if they had a problem all those centuries ago it just shows what a problem they could have in translating. It makes it difficult to know what you can trust.
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  40

  Are These the Last Days?

  by individual in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  does anyone who has left the organisation still feel that these are the last days?

  all down through history people have wanted to feel that they live in special times - are jws just an extension of this?

  for me the biggest problem with this theory of the last days has been the distinct lack of earthquakes since 1914, a quote from the book signs of the times revisited says "as more and more seismographs are installed in the world, more earthquakes can be and have been located.

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  individual

  To Yadirf

  I was a JW for 25 years - am I wrong in thinking that the society has placed great emphasis in its publications on the fact that earthquakes were part of this sign. I have read this fact over and over again. Not once was it implied this meant a shaking of the foundations of this established system. Did I miss something!!?? The deathstroke was apparently fulfilled during the first world war (refer to Revelation Climax book page 190). The society states that the 7th head acting as the dominant world power endured a death stroke that brings great distress to the entire wild beast. It then goes on to show that the first world war was the death stroke. And all this is straight from the horses mouth - I have the book beside me now.
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  21

  The WTs Biggest Deceptions

  by individual in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  i was just wondering what do the members of this board think the biggest deception in the teaching of the watchtower society is?.

  one of the biggest deceptions for me, one that stuck like a thorn in my side was their deception on earthquakes, hence my previous thread on the last days.

  the wts, as i recall, published supposed proof of the increase in earthquakes since 1914. i was so angry when i found out that this was an outright lie.

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  individual

  I was just wondering what do the members of this board think the biggest deception in the teaching of the Watchtower Society is?

  One of the biggest deceptions for me, one that stuck like a thorn in my side was their deception on earthquakes, hence my previous thread on the last days. The WTS, as I recall, published supposed proof of the increase in earthquakes since 1914. I was so angry when I found out that this was an outright lie. Whether you believe they did this intentionally or not they should have been more accurate when publishing such sensitive materials. I now know that it is easy for them to mislead over this since they often change their own history when trying to prove that they are Gods organisation.

  Their other deception is in their steadfast refusal to acknowledge that 607 is the wrong date for the destruction of Jerusalem. Jerusalem was destroyed when it was destroyed, you cannot change a date just to please yourself, it is like saying World War 2 started in 1919.

  As far as preaching of the good news goes - and using that as a sign of the last days, if that is the best sign that they can provide (a self-fulfilling one at that) then that is a bit sad. I feel sorry for all those that are sucked in on these deceptions and those others like these.

  What do you feel are the WTs biggest deceptions? What makes you the most angry? Does it get anyone frustrated when the WTS is so succesful at misleading its followers? To me it is so obviously a fraud, the history of all their prophetic dates alone is enough to convince me of this, also the failure of their generation prophecy.
  And it was a prophecy no matter what they say, I can remember in the 80's the public talks that were given where the ages of the generation of 1914 were calculated. Any thoughts on this?
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  40

  Are These the Last Days?

  by individual in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  does anyone who has left the organisation still feel that these are the last days?

  all down through history people have wanted to feel that they live in special times - are jws just an extension of this?

  for me the biggest problem with this theory of the last days has been the distinct lack of earthquakes since 1914, a quote from the book signs of the times revisited says "as more and more seismographs are installed in the world, more earthquakes can be and have been located.

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  2. 
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  individual

  Does anyone who has left the organisation still feel that these are the last days? All down through history people have wanted to feel that they live in special times - are JWs just an extension of this?

  For me the biggest problem with this theory of the last days has been the distinct lack of earthquakes since 1914, a quote from the book Signs of the Times Revisited says "As more and more seismographs are installed in the world, more earthquakes can be and have been located. However, the number of large earthquakes (magnitude 6.0 or greater) have stayed relatively constant ... in fact, the last decade has produced substantially fewer earthquakes than shown in the long term averages."

  A graph in the book shows the remarkable fact that from 1960 through to 1990 there was a great drop off in magnitude 8.0 or greater earthquakes. If the WT society was truly right about the last days surely there would be a greater number of earthquakes since 1914, not less. I approached an elder with this in answer to a comment he made that 'isn't it fantastic that Jesus who helped make the world, nearly 2000 years ago knew that the plates would be particularly active in the last days'. My reply to this was that it has been seismically quiet since 1914, very few major earthquakes and certainly no major eruptions (Mount St Helens was just a fire cracker).

  If the plates were particularly active not only earthquakes would have increased but also volcanic eruptions would have been more frequent and larger. The last two really big eruptions were Tambora in 1815 and Krakatau in 1883, these two were many times bigger than Mt St Helens. There usually are one or two massive eruptions on the scale of Tambora every century. During the so called last days since 1914 there has been none.

  You would have thought that with the world population having grown so much since 1914 that there would have been more earthquake and volcanic disasters with the population being more widespread, more conurbanisation. Instead we find this has been less so.

  So are these really the last days? This is supposed to be a continual sign throughout the last days and it has failed to happen.
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  20

  Elders killed my cat

  by spike in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  in the late 70's, i began experiencing health problems.

  the elders wanted to know if i purchased anything new, thinking i was under demon attack.

  the only thing new in our household was a kitten.

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  individual

  This story of the cat may seem far fetched and strange but about 20 years ago in the congregation I was attending the elders thought that a teenage boy was demon possessed because he was hearing voices. We now know that the voices he was hearing were due to the strong medication he was taking for headaches. The elders were so convinced of this demon possession that they all met with him and tried to get rid of it using scriptures and prayers over him. I know this because I was there in the house at the time. It was a frightening experience, everyone was very confused. Nobody took him to the hospital although he was in a very bad way, after a few days of this 'treatment' he ran away but collapsed in the street. Upon hospitalisation they found out that he had suffered a stroke, he became paralysed down one side and lost most of his memory, he couldn't even remember who his father was. As far as I know today he has recovered and is still going to meetings, but this could have so easily cost him his life. It just shows that when you think that everything bad is caused by demons just how dangerous this fanatasism can be.
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  6

  You're Doomed!

  by individual in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  about 3 years ago we had one of those 'lovely' visits from the co. for his main talk he decided to encourage us out into the field, to do more on the ministry.

  i don't know who his motivational instructor was but he might as well of stood in front of us at the hall with a machine gun.

  the main point of his talk was "you only do one hour a month?

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  individual

  The same CO as I mentioned above suggested that if we could not do enough hours on the ministry that we could consider telephone witnessing. He then said "I know what you are thinking - what about the bill?!" Well, he had the answer -"Jehovah will pay it for you, don't worry!"

  I was very tempted to present him with a phone bill on his next visit saying "Well, I've managed to do 150 hours per month for the last quarter, but what do I do with THIS?!"