Posts by individual

107

FATAL ASSUMPTIONS

by You Know in

jw
friends

jesus further related in the 15th chapter of john: "nevertheless, i have spoken these things to you that, when the hour for them arrives, you may remember i told them to you.

these things, however, i did not tell you at first, because i was with you.

so, the point is that jesus has not told his anointed ones certain things yet because the hour for them has not arrived.

individual

YouKnow

You make a huge assumption in saying we are all immoral, you may be right in one or two cases, but I suspect that many of us are more moral than yourself.

Here's a moral case - I think it is immoral to kill people without giving them a chance and although you say that it is the great tribulation that will kill most people off, if you actually listen to what the society says the great tribulation is started by the destruction of Babylon the Great when Jehovah leads Gog of Magog by the nose. This means that Jehovah will be responsible for starting it in which case the responsibility will be his for letting people know that there is a choice to be made.

As far as the preaching work goes the magazines have very little value to the people - most people have a quick glance and then throw them away. The society has chosen just about the most ineffective way of preaching, and we ought to know, my wife was a pioneer. You talk to us as though we know nothing but I left because of people like yourself, people who spouted their own ideas that are even more harsh than the societys. I cannot imagine Christ Jesus preaching what you preach.

I guarantee that you dont include this sort of material in talks and items given in the kingdom halls. I have never heard anything like this from any elder giving talks from the platform, I have never read anything like this in the magazines. Now, running ahead of the society is considered apostacy itself, by the society. So I welcome you now as the King of Apostates!

You cannot deny that your thoughts are apostate thoughts because according to the society an apostate is one who goes by his own thinking and preaches his own thinking as if it was from Jehovah and this is what you do here.

I havent got anything against you personally because I dont know you, the only thing I am against is the destructive ideas that you put across. From your previous posts I know your record of being correct is about as good as the societys record. So I think we can all sleep safely in our beds tonight. But if the society still had its hold on me and I was talking as you do then I would be a worried man, just in case the society found out...

107

FATAL ASSUMPTIONS

by You Know in

jw
friends

jesus further related in the 15th chapter of john: "nevertheless, i have spoken these things to you that, when the hour for them arrives, you may remember i told them to you.

these things, however, i did not tell you at first, because i was with you.

so, the point is that jesus has not told his anointed ones certain things yet because the hour for them has not arrived.

individual

GodRules - Witnesses do not spend billions of hours every year publishing the good news of the kingdom - what they do is spend billions of hours placing magazines that have no meaning to anybody and no relevance and certainly have no effect in convincing people. People do not come into the religion because of the magazines or because of what a JW has said. In my experience the majority of the people who have come in were susceptible to anything at that time having suffered a profound event in their lives.

A lot of those that have come into the religion were in need of psychiatric help having emotional problems and in need of a crutch to lean on. I know this does not apply to everyone but in my experience it was extremely common. This means they were victims of circumstance and events in their lives meant that they were looking for hope. Surely this cannot be the best way for God to gather his people. The preaching work is incredibly inefficient and if peoples lives were really at stake and Armageddon was really a reality then surely they deserve a better chance than this.

The JWs are preaching in order for them to gain their prize. All the JWs I knew had very little humanity and they were certainly not preaching to help others but were preaching in order to clock some hours on their timesheets. To me, at that time, I used to look at the people that were going out on the ministry beside me and listen to the moans of 'we're not going to THAT area again are we?'. Their motivation was completely wrong and I felt at that time that God wasnt behind the work because it was so ineffective and nobody who was going out actually wanted to carry out this work.

When you look around the world there are a lot of good people, I would say that the majority of people are sincere, honesthearted and genuine, many of whom truly love God and Jesus Christ in their own religions. The only people that I know that long to see them destroyed are JWs. People used to go out looking for a house to own after Armageddon and I've experienced this with people I've worked with so you cannot say it doesnt happen. How can you say their heart condition is right and better than those they are preaching to??

If God brought Armageddon now it would be a massive failure on his part, a failure to reach peoples hearts because he has decided to use a corrupt organisation whose faults have revealed consistently on this board. If He did bring Armageddon now, as YouKnow wants, then He would be responsible for the billions of lives destroyed including children. He has not given these people a chance, certainly not a fair chance. This is why I do not believe that God would destroy these ones. The society wants to believe they are evil but they are clearly not. The apostates are considered evil by YouKnow and others but they are normal, thinking, kind people who have more humanity than any of those in this so-called 'truth'.

This thread is typical YouKnow stuff - 'lets destroy the world regardless of how good people are because I am greedy and greedy for my reward.'

9

New Economic System

by enricofrassinetti in

jw
friends

hello logical.

i would want to give to you and to all you, a message a lot important, if i succeed to us.

from italy with to many siblings, we are inserting a new economic system in order to help the poor countries of the world.

individual

PROMOTER WATER has the possibility to earn money working and selling to others this type of service applying the method of the NETWORK MARKETING without to spend nothing in advance payment.

The above is an interesting quote which indicates that this is just another money making scheme for the benefit of those who set it up. I think that network marketing and pyramid selling are of the same sort of ilk and should be avoided, there is always a loser. Using the term anointed brother is an effort to gain the trust of ex JWs.

Sorry to sound sceptical but I dont like the look of this. Had enough of people trying to take advantage of other people, ie. the organisation taking advantage of JWs. This seems to be a way to take advantage of ex JWs. I for one will avoid it like the plague.

Having experienced life as a JW I am a bit sceptical of things that seem too good to be true and a bit sceptical of promises made by people or organisations.

8

Watchtower accepting credit cards ?

by BERNARD in

jw
friends

i was trolling around on the great crowd board of jehovah.

witnesses and one mention about a credit card machine being.

installed in an asssembly hall of jehovah witness.

individual

I've heard the same rumour. If this indeed proves to be true it shows that they worship a new god - Money. Something we have always suspected.

Jesus overturned the money tables in the temple because it wasnt fitting for these things to take place in his Fathers house. The situation today is no different - for money tables you can now read ATMs. Their love of money was proved to me by the talks at the assemblies that usually lasted an hour or two on the priviledge of giving money to the society. The society would charge rent on the assembly halls that were built by donations. Go figure this out! At Bristol Assembly Hall in the UK they would read out the accounts showing donations and expenses and I could never understand why the expenses were so high, about £5000, just for one weekend, using a hall we already owned!! I later found out that it was usual policy for the society to charge rent for every weekends usage of the hall. They must be making a fortune out of this.

Have you also seen the 32 page brochure they have recently published on how to donate to the society, makes for interesting reading... they are going into the business of paying out a nominal amount per month once the publisher is of a certain age, if you sign your house over to them. Could you imagine doing this and then leaving the organisation??

12

My Life growning up a JW

by WTLies in

william's story .

my mother received a knock at the door when i was 4 years old, that knock would alter the course of my entire life.

it was then, she received what she and millions of others call 'the truth.

individual

William - Good to have you here.

Noticed your point on the finances for assembly halls. The last assembly I went to was just over a year ago, it was at Bristol in the UK, a fairly new underground hall, very plush with marble staircases and a fantastic waterfall inside, all very over the top. When they read out the accounts they gave the amount of donations and then the expenses. The expenses came to about £5,000 for the weekend for their own hall! The reason for this is that although the societys donations were used to build it, the society charged the circuits rent for using the building that they had already paid for!

This really got to me and I realised that they no longer relied on Jehovah but their new God was money. They always had talks on how to donate money but were never told how it was being used. I remembered what Jesus did in the temple when he turned over the money tables and I began to wonder what he would have made of all this. I am sure he would not have agreed with all the constant reminders and pressures for money. And charging for something we already own. Now I hear the rumour that they are installing ATMs in the assembly halls to make it easier for people to withdraw money to donate, what would Jesus have made of that?

28

WEEKLY STRATEGIC UPDATE

by You Know in

jw
friends

there is no question about it, the world is rapidly heading toward its terminal tumult.

with the foretold apostasy now fully underway, the stage is set for jehovahs ongoing controversy to be pressed to its ultimate conclusion.

piece by piece, chunks of the underlying economy, the life blood of the present system of things, are falling away.

individual

You Know -

TO INDIVIDUAL: My experience with apostates consistently demonstrates your impotence in the face of the facts. Nothing is more faith-affirming for me. In a typically canned response, you can only attack me personally or blaspheme God because his judgment consigns fools to suffer the full penalty of their stupidity.The fact is, your world is doomed, not because God is going to necessarily personally destroy it, but because it has not the moral strength to survive. Jehovah simply decrees that no one will live who doesn't have faith in him.

How can I be blaspheming God when all I am saying is that He is not going to do the things you say He is going to do and He has not got the personality you subscribe to. The judgemental way you describe God is purely your own opinion based on the writings of the organisation. Your view of Him is more harsh than that of the organisation and I am surprised that if you spout the same things in the kingdom hall as you do here that they havent kicked you out yet. In my experience opinions expressed as strongly as these concerning the end of the system and WW3 that run contrary to the societys thinking were treated very harshly.

The worst thing is that like the society you claim to be speaking on behalf of God. Now, Jesus taught love and did so in a loving way. I am sure that he would not be saying the things that you are saying if he was on the earth today. The love that the Bible speaks of is distinctly lacking in ALL of your posts which only express hate, for not only the world, but also all the peoples within it.

I know you want your reward but you have to ask yourself - do you deserve it? Has Jehovah room for somebody with so much hate and such a desire for destruction? To me there are good people in the world and they far outnumber the witnesses. Open your eyes and look around at people in your area - are they all bad, evil, deserving of destruction? Is there not even one good person?

I tell you this - it is very easy to tar everybody with the same brush and the organisation has been very good at doing this in its talking about the 'evil system of things'. It tars everbody with this expression, classing all non JWs as evil. Obviously, to anybody with any sense at all this is ludicrous. The only reason they do this is to seperate people into two groups, for the purpose of bolstering their own belief that they are the only ones that are going to be saved. In so doing they keep everbody involved in the 'truth' through fear and I ought to know, after a quarter of a century locked into this feeling of fear and guilt.

From my point of view I cannot worship a God as represented by the society, they are the blasphemers because they willingly portray Him as a murderer, just look at the illustrations of people dying or fighting at the systems end as shown in the organisations publications. What do you think Jesus would make of these pictures? To me they always showed the worst, which now I see is purely a reflection of their own desires. Just as your post comes across as a reflection of you, one who desires all to be destroyed regardless, just so that you yourself can get your imagined reward. People like you were warned about in the Bible, peddling their own interpretations of scriptures as prophecy. How will we know that you are a false prophet? Because none of this will come true. WW3 is not imminent and the economic woes are just repeats of a cycle that will always happen in this social structure.

You want to win people over with fear, Christ Jesus wanted to win people over with love and compassion, can you see the difference?

28

WEEKLY STRATEGIC UPDATE

by You Know in

jw
friends

there is no question about it, the world is rapidly heading toward its terminal tumult.

with the foretold apostasy now fully underway, the stage is set for jehovahs ongoing controversy to be pressed to its ultimate conclusion.

piece by piece, chunks of the underlying economy, the life blood of the present system of things, are falling away.

individual

You Know

You say that Jehovah is laying traps for people in preparation for their destruction - is this the sort of God you really want to worship? Your post is full of hate, animosity and fear, don't you realise that these so called apostates are just ordinary people. You seem to be following the qualities that you assume are Gods which appear to be all negative.

Do you really want God to do all this? I used to believe in this but I did not want God to do it - I always thought that people deserve a chance and if the best that God can do is provide people like yourself then what chance have they got? I feel sorry for you because you seem to hate mankind so much, and if hate is what drives you do you think you deserve a new system?

My experience as a JW has shown me that they are the most selfish, conceited and predujiced people or religion around. Their desire for this all to happen overwhelms any sense of humanity they once had. Jehovah would have been better off getting the stones to preach for all of its effectiveness. This preaching work is supposed to be their best hope and I would say that the failure of the witnesses to show humanity, or to convince humanity, is their own failing and not Gods. So therefore you would have to say that God is not behind the organisation. Surely it would have been done more effectively than this - how can He be behind an organisation that is so full of hate, full of people that want the system to end which means the majority of mankind would be destroyed. It is a very sick belief which approves of mass murder of innocent people who havent been given a chance.

How do you feel about your own failure? I know that JWs only follow this because they want to feel special, part of an elite and this mythical new or young anointed class is just one example of this. My advice to you would be to get a psychiatrist because self delusion is a psychological disorder.

44

Wrong date

by tattoogrl333 in

jw
friends

hello i'm new to the whole jw study thing, but they said it fell in 607 but due to the advice of others here i looked it up.

i found in 3 encyclopedia's online that it fell in 586. i printed them out and am going to get more.

i'm going to show the lady i study with, i'm just curious what you think will happen, and if she will try to deny it.

individual

Fred Hall - I agree with you that Jesus has the sayings that lead to everlasting life but what I do not agree with is that the organisation has the backing of Jehovah or Jesus so therefore they do not have the sayings that lead to everlasting life. If you want to spend the next 25 years finding this out - go ahead.

7

Gain???

by tattoogrl333 in

jw
friends

i've asked a few people this, but what do the jw have to gain by luring people into their religion?

do they take your money or posessions?

i just don't understand why people would want to do that.

individual

The same as all religions - the more members they get the more justified they feel in themselves that they are in the true religion. One of the things that the organisation brags about is how they must be the true religion because they are growing (extremely slowly). They are very demanding on your time expecting total support and this support includes money and possessions. In my experience every assembly I attended in recent times has included hour long talks on how to donate. For an organisation that claims to rely solely on Jehovah these talks used to really anger me.

Ask yourself this one question - why does this organisation have so much wealth in money, shares and other interests when they are supposed to be storing treasures in heaven and not on the earth?
This money is just something they are stashing away, look at how much goes into true charitable works, it is peanuts. If they believe this system is going to end why store all this wealth up, why not use it now to benefit people.

44

Wrong date

by tattoogrl333 in

jw
friends

hello i'm new to the whole jw study thing, but they said it fell in 607 but due to the advice of others here i looked it up.

i found in 3 encyclopedia's online that it fell in 586. i printed them out and am going to get more.

i'm going to show the lady i study with, i'm just curious what you think will happen, and if she will try to deny it.

individual

Fred Hall - How can the sister promise tattoogirl everlasting life if all that she is telling is based on a falsehood.

Humble - The date 587 is calculated from eclipses that happened during the Babylonian period and fortunately for us the Babylonians recorded all these events in the years of the king who happened to reign when they happened. With modern computer technology they can now work out when all the eclipses would have occurred and they agree with the 587 date. The business documentation is likewise based on the reigns of the kings, they have thousands of documents but none at all for the supposed 20 years to bring it to 607. All these documents run from 539. As far as the 70 years goes the scriptures say that it is 70 years that they serve Babylon and once it has been fulfilled they call an account against the king of Babylon (ref. Jer.10-12).

tattoogrl333 - After 25 years of being a JW this was one of the issues that led me to leave the organisation. The organisation is not humble enough to admit that it is wrong, the ramifications of saying that 1914 is no longer the date of the setting up of Jesus Kingdom would mean that they would lose the respect and the obedience of all those who follow them, so losing their credibility. The society will expect you to follow what it says to the letter without question, even if all the evidence points to the opposite to what they say. Fred Hall and others have to hang on to their belief because the desire to believe is so strong. Fred Hall calls us fools but who is more foolish - somebody who follows something blindly and ignores all the faults especially a whopper such as 607 - or somebody who asks logical questions. Following something like this causes great hardship, it is very demanding and you have to make sure it is completly accurate.

Saying 607 is like saying World War 2 started in 1919, everybody knows that it started in 1939. I would challenge Fred Hall and others to provide EVIDENCE that 607 is the correct date and it is no good just trying to give their own interpretation on the 70 years in the scriptures, there is a very good line of reasoning that shows that they are wrong on that interpretation as well. Remember this also - the society believed that Jerusalem was destroyed in 606 until they realised that there was no year 0 and instead of changing 1914 they decided to change 606 to 607. This shows the importance that they put on 1914 - they would rather change history than their own prophetic date. Russell only stuck to 1914 because World War 1 started in that year, and this was only due to coincidence, since it started in June and the kingdom was supposedly established in October. I would say to any witness that this is crucial since all their doctrines are based on this date.