Posts by whataburger

30

JW MIL having surgery - Elders there are the "blood nazis"

by Robert7 in

jw
friends

so my jw mother-in-law is having some rather major abdominal surgery today.

given the type of surgery, there is a chance that the blood issue may come up, where in worst case if there's a loss of blood she may need a transfusion.. so in the waiting room for the entire 3 1/2 hour surgery are two elders.

these guys don't know my mil that well, and they are not there to support her... when it comes down to it:.

whataburger

Clarification - the "Brothers" do not know for sure a transfusion occured. Consider it, "Don't Ask, Don't Tell".

People can put two and two together, which I am sure they are at least suspicious. I could care less if they DF'd me, but my mother is elderly and her and my Dad need a faith to cling on to - and that crazy feeling you get when you let go and believe can be powerful and comforting.

However, if they ask too many questions - or ask for a meeting of some sort, a lawyer will be present. And I have read the new book, and I know what events that will trigger. If at all else, I will tell my mother to lie - and that she will actually be lying to protect them, because it is them that need to lie.

It must be tough to be an Elder and instruct people to watch their loved ones die.

Not me, I choose life.

Don't get me wrong, I love so much about that faith, and the people in it. But then there are the people I don't care for, much. A few posts back someone claimed that being a witness hones your "people reading skills". I can attest to that. I can read people quick, especially in person. Something about my personality makes them back off and leave me alone, even though I am a nice guy. Like I said, some people think I am crazy, others know I am. But I am a functional crazy, left in shambles after realizing that everything I ever thought was true, was not. It only took Wikipedia to bring me to the surface, Wikipedia and my own ability to reason and investigate. And the realization that I could not trust these elders to tell me the right thing, caused me to pay attention to the slightest twitch, the glance away. It's like a drug addict once told me, never trust a junkie. The truth is their drug, and if they ever completely wake up then they have to face the fact that it was all a lie, every since Rutherford put his personal agenda on our heads. These elders have lied to themselves, to us, to their families. AND THEY DO NOT WANT TO WAKE UP.

1914 was real to me. I still, to this day, cannot get that concept out of my mind. I can still hear the elder's wives with their heartfelt, yet scripted answers to the Watchtower questions - "And we know that before the generation that saw 1914 passes, this system of things will end..." It played out over and over, in hall after all - we all counted the years like bean counters. How could it be 1993? 1994? And how somber was New Years Day, 1995?

About as somber as 2011.

I hold out for the best, that our organization will change and adapt and grow strong again on the backs of the great people who will flock back and forgive - just stop the lies. Let's acknowledge we were wrong, we were duped. CT Russell never claimed to be inspired by God, he just liked the words in the Bible.

So why do we think these men in Brooklyn (or wherever) are insipired.

Questions make the walls fall down.

Questions, like, what do you mean insipired?

Do you mean trance like meditation with sudden clarity? Autonomous writing? Smoking peyote? Or is the Holy Spirit part of the qourum, bringing wisdom with the reading of the minutes as an unseen force that guides their thoughts. To me, any of that would be a miracle, and we don't have miracles anymore, do we?

Don't get me started, I have so many stories.

It's all been an explotation.

But at least the girls were nice.

...WB

30

JW MIL having surgery - Elders there are the "blood nazis"

by Robert7 in

jw
friends

so my jw mother-in-law is having some rather major abdominal surgery today.

given the type of surgery, there is a chance that the blood issue may come up, where in worst case if there's a loss of blood she may need a transfusion.. so in the waiting room for the entire 3 1/2 hour surgery are two elders.

these guys don't know my mil that well, and they are not there to support her... when it comes down to it:.

whataburger

Robert,

I went through this in recent history. My mom has been a JW for most of her adult life, along with my father. They raised me in the truth, but as a teen they faded a bit and then came back strong in my early 20's. Because I married a girl in the truth, I was strong until my mid 20's when I began to fade hard and fast. And while I continue to have friends and family in the truth, I have transformed into a person, who - beyond a doubt, knows this is hogwash.

So when my mother was in ICU, and the nurses told me she would not make it through the night without a transfusion - I learned all the "alternative treatments" were nearly useless when you get down to a certain level.

I talked my Dad into going home for a while, to get some rest. He is old and suffers from his own ailments, I told him I would stay the night but that I needed him there for me in the morning so I could rest.

After he left I explained to my mom that when the Bible authors wrote abstain from blood - they were talking about the pagan cow worshippers that were drinking blood and dying from it. Those authors never envisioned a day when blood would be transfused and lives would be saved. And then I told her how the Society has known this for a long time, but if they were to reverse their position they would leave themselves open for a flood of wrongful death lawsuits.

And I told her that Jehovah wants her to live, to help her grandkids and continue being a good example for this family. I couldn't stop crying, and I am not a soft man.

And somehow, something I said took root. And she said ok, and the nurse came in and we filled out all the paper work and I had them remove any hint of the word "Jehovah's Witness" from her paperwork, because I told mom that when they see that, they see "GIVE UP". And that night she had a transfusion, and she lived.

And slowly my father understood what happened, and she told him my reasoning. And while they hated to admit it, they realized I was right.

And her sister, a another lifer, is suspicious, and elders showed up the next day - and I explained to them with tears in my eyes and my fists balled up at my side in a subtle, non-threatening way, that this was a family matter and they were not welcome here.

And maybe it's because I am known to be possibly crazy, like my father, that they have left us alone.

And if they ever try to DF my elderly mother, I will threaten a lawsuit and call a lawyer because it would devastate my mother and there is no need for her to ho through that.

So, stay strong and do not be afraid to say what you need to say, just be smart about it - and discrete. Have faith that God will help you with the means and methods.

...WB

42

2010 DC" Remain in Gods Love"...Most Unloving Yet??

by JWFreak in

jw
friends

the talk outlines for the summers conventions are only being printed over the next 2 weeks or so.. the finished outlines were ready in the middle of december 2009, however sources that i trust tell me that at least 5 of the talks were returned for last minute rewriting which is highly unusual.

this has held up the printing until now, a delay of over a month.

this is a fact!!.

whataburger

I give up, what was the December 2009 KM glaring error?

41

Onereason for a gentleman fader to stay reasonably associated...

by whataburger in

jw
friends

one congregation phenomenon i have observed in a variety of halls - older, not so model material brothers have a real chance with younger, attractive sisters - and often at the prodding of the young sisters parents and congregation members.. and if you have a little more scratch than the average jw brother (which isn't hard to do with a bunch of window washers), you really have an advantage.. a 40 year old man walking through the mall would have zero chances with an attractive 18+ year old girl.

but take that same man, who has been faithfully attending meetings and doing all the right things and put him in the kingdom hall and suddenly anything is possible.. sad, but true.. of course, who wants all the drama that comes with a girl that young - but it is something i have observed.. when i was in my early 20's and came back into "the truth", and i had a few dollars - and i had so many sisters tripping all over themselves for me... and the ages range from late teens to late 30's.

it was crazy.

whataburger

I am not interested in the situation - just making an observation. I rarely attend meetings anymore - just the memorial, and that is just to give my older family members some peace of mind. And, I do like to say hello to old friends.

But I think it is very unfair to women. Men in the congregation can consider much younger women, but not always the other way around.

As far as they comments about the GB dictating what goes on in the bedroom, those are obstacles that can be overcome - but this really isn't the forum to discuss that.

...wHaTaBuRgEr

41

Onereason for a gentleman fader to stay reasonably associated...

by whataburger in

jw
friends

one congregation phenomenon i have observed in a variety of halls - older, not so model material brothers have a real chance with younger, attractive sisters - and often at the prodding of the young sisters parents and congregation members.. and if you have a little more scratch than the average jw brother (which isn't hard to do with a bunch of window washers), you really have an advantage.. a 40 year old man walking through the mall would have zero chances with an attractive 18+ year old girl.

but take that same man, who has been faithfully attending meetings and doing all the right things and put him in the kingdom hall and suddenly anything is possible.. sad, but true.. of course, who wants all the drama that comes with a girl that young - but it is something i have observed.. when i was in my early 20's and came back into "the truth", and i had a few dollars - and i had so many sisters tripping all over themselves for me... and the ages range from late teens to late 30's.

it was crazy.

whataburger

One congregation phenomenon I have observed in a variety of halls - older, not so model material brothers have a real chance with younger, attractive sisters - and often at the prodding of the young sisters parents and congregation members.

And if you have a little more scratch than the average JW brother (which isn't hard to do with a bunch of window washers), you really have an advantage.

A 40 year old man walking through the mall would have zero chances with an attractive 18+ year old girl. But take that same man, who has been faithfully attending meetings and doing all the right things and put him in the Kingdom hall and suddenly anything is possible.

Sad, but true.

Of course, who wants all the drama that comes with a girl that young - but it is something I have observed.

When I was in my early 20's and came back into "the truth", and I had a few dollars - and I had so many sisters tripping all over themselves for me... and the ages range from late teens to late 30's. It was crazy.

So before you fade completely away and burn the bridge... consider keeping your options open!

12

Not invited to a JW family dinner

by LoriJis in

jw
friends

i just need to vent.

my husband and i live in the same apt complex as my jw in-law family.

they have family visiting from out of state and there is a big family dinner tonight - but omg its not a thanksgiving dinner.

whataburger

I grew up in this religion, and while I strayed as a late teen and had a great mentor on how to really enjoy life, I ended up coming back in because I married a girl who was also raised in the "truth".

We stopped going to meetings a long time ago, but she still thinks it's the truth.

But what is sad are the number of "friends" we have lost because we stopped going to the meetings. We are having dinner with a couple tonight who are still hard core (even go out in service), but they don't know that we have faded because we live so far apart.

Jut drop those people who shun you, cut them out of your life and never let them back in... Not until they realize the sham and apologize.

..burg.

10

What happens after you get out.

by wanderlustguy in

jw
friends

dave used to tell me that there were more stages to recovery than anyone can really explain... or however he said it that was always so cool.

maybe it's because we never really recover.

i hear from old friends every now and then and think of many more who i met since i started this trip almost 7 years ago.. sometimes an old family member has a reason to call you and you go through a lot of emotions that are part of why you choose to leave.

whataburger

It was quite a shock to me, that very moment when I realized the "Truth" was not everything I needed it to be. It's been a long, drawn out process of getting everything straight in my mind, so that I could have the confidence and the peace to simply admit to myself that I had been fooled. Trusted family members who didn't know any better made me not question things when I was younger... but now I am older and I question everything, I see the flip side to everything now.

What really pains me is that I could have left sooner, 10 YEARS sooner had these message boards been different. This one is not as bad as it used to be - but there are a group of anti-JW's out there that are so cruel, and so vile, and so wrong about the issues that I blocked this out for a long time.

Had they been a little less vile, it would have made the journey even easier. I imagine I am not alone. I don't know all the names, but Tom Talley is one of them - he is so twisted, and has done so much harm, I wonder what his true motives were. I would see his post, and try to understand what he was talking about, but in the end I sensed something terrible - and then when the news articles came out, it all made sense, but solidified why I could listen to "those" people.

And then you have the ones who associate every bit of bad news with JW's. They use the reasoning that the crime or circumstance can somehow be compared back to the JW's. Or they postulate that the criminal was a JW. That's great, we get that you hate JW's, but can we stop the bashing and talk about something real?

And so, ten years later, I sit here convinced that it is, what it is - and thats a sham religion started over 100 years ago by a charismatic man who is dead and gone, and his ideas are now outdated. Through some mind control and isolation techniques, they are keeping the mystique alive, but not for long.

I have friends that are strong in the Truth, and will never leave. But they are so predictable, and fit the mold of how hard core JW's are portrayed here... Especially the concept of extreme reasoning, where they counter any legit argument you make with some extreme example of how Brooklyn is correct.

25

For those that were/are SINGLE in the ORGANIZATION, did anyone encourage you to marry a WEIRD JW?

by BonaFide in

jw
friends

bizzybee's comment about the elders encouraging her at 19 to marry the 40+ yr old widow with 4 kids made me remember similar stuff.. the elders encouraged me as a young brother to stay single.

some of the younger sisters seemed to like me, but the friends in the congregations i visited always wanted me to marry the weird ones.

they called them "spiritual.

whataburger

I had an elder's wife ask me, at 22, to wait until her 13 year old daughter turned 18 - pretty much an arranged wedding. I might have considered it if the family had money but they did not. The girl is now a very pretty, often disfellowshipped woman with a lot of emotional trouble. It's not her fault, though - I truly feel she is the victim of the WTS.

I had a couple older, single sisters make it painfully obvious they were interested in me and wanted things to move forward fast, which made for some awkward moments before and after the meetings. But my biggest problem was the young teens falling for me and making my life difficult as I stood behind the magazine counter and they would hang around the counter.

15

Personal records of governing body members

by TheBoss in

jw
friends

i'm looking for web site links to credible information about present governing body members specifically personal tax and financial records (personal u.s. and offshore bank accounts, net worth, financial and real estate holdings, blind trusts).

as public figures they're fair game..

whataburger

This blows me away. First, that you think the GB are embezzling funds or whatever - but more so that you don't understand how to obtain this information.

69

...Jehovah`s Witness`s have the most Stable Marriages...

by OUTLAW in

jw
friends

jehovah`s witness`s have the most stable marriages..very few jehovah`s witness`s cheat on thier mates..most jehovah`s witness`s stay married for thier entire lifes to the same person..jehovah`s witness`s have the happiest marriages!..becoming jehovah`s witness`s,has saved many marriages..................................................my experience has taught me none of that is true.................what is your experience?............................outlaw.

whataburger

Wow, its interesting to read about all this marital strife among JW's. My wife and I were both raised in the Truth and married in our early 20's and have been married for almost 20 years now. I did a quick check list of all the couples we know in our and surrounding halls and I cannot think of one divorce. However, if I go "outside" of my circle of friends and include brothers and sisters that are older, I can definately point out a few divorces but nothing that would be considered a statistical anomaly.

Don't get me wrong, I have a *ton* of criticisms against the WTS and a number of Elders/MS's.