Posts by bohm

233

Number of Muslims protesting London terrorist attack = ZERO. Number of Muslims protesting forced Mosque closure in France = HUNDREDS

by kpop in

so it is now two days after another islamic terrorist attack.

how many muslims are in the streets protesting and condemning this evil?

how many are marching in all the big cities condemning this in mass protests?.

bohm

Incidentally, Ayan Hirsi Ali has a recent report on radical Islam (she calls it political Islam) and the various branches of Islam which she too believes exists; these are incidentally the same distinctions as Bernhard Haykel makes in the work I shared earlier though he is more interested in the historical/political context and Hirsi Ali focuses on policy. I don't share her optimism with regards to Trump, but the distinctions she is making (and her analysis of contemporary Islamism) is exactly the same as those I am making on this thread. For instance, from the conclusion:

The administration should recognize the diversity of Muslim citizens and support Islamic reformers here and around the world.
In reaching out to the Muslim American community, the administration should ally itself with genuine Muslim moderates and reformers, not with “nonviolent” Islamists. Nonviolent Islamists are engaged in subversion: they seek to replace the US Constitution and rule of law with sharia

My point is that the idea that we can recognize people as both Muslims and moderates is one she shares. Do you believe she too is wrong?

http://www.hoover.org/sites/default/files/research/docs/ali_challengeofdawa_final_web.pdf

(Before she is quoted to "disprove" me, please keep in mind that save some optimism with regards to Trump what she is writing on Islam and Islams relationship to terrorism is in alignment with what I have written on this thread and elsewhere)

233

Number of Muslims protesting London terrorist attack = ZERO. Number of Muslims protesting forced Mosque closure in France = HUNDREDS

by kpop in

so it is now two days after another islamic terrorist attack.

how many muslims are in the streets protesting and condemning this evil?

how many are marching in all the big cities condemning this in mass protests?.

bohm

Simon: I did actually already answered that question when LUHE asked it of me.

I am confused about how I can participate in this thread but since you asked...

My answer was that I think it is wrong to treat Islam as a single entity, etc. etc., similar to how I think it is wrong to ask if the Catholics or the JWs are more like Jesus (you can point to ways they are similar and ways they are dissimilar). But if you want a simple yes/no answer then sure, I will go with yes.

9

Great way to show the world your not extremists.

by pleaseresearch in

i really don't know what to expect of this.

they are being labelled extremists in russia and are close to being banned.

so the show that they aren't extremists they encourage all jw's worldwide to bombard the kremlin and court with millions on letters..

bohm

The goal is not to affect Kremlin, which they can't in either case, but to use this as a PR opportunity. It is no coincidence that JWTV and their literature is so full of stories of JWs being oppressed in Russia under Soviet rule as this serves several purposes

Reinforce the basic narrative JWs are oppressed/persecuted by "Satan"
That worldly political systems cannot be trusted; that current stability/freedom can quickly be taken away
That events in the first part of the 20th century are connected to today's events, i.e. 1914 is not that far away as this is all one continious unfolding of persecution fitting nicely into their view of world history (this is one more reason why they use older JWs, asides the obvious emotional appeal)

Letter-writing is IMO quite brilliant as it makes it very personal to those who write these letters, the letters can be read on assemblies, and it makes it seem like JWs care more about other JWs than anyone else.

233

Number of Muslims protesting London terrorist attack = ZERO. Number of Muslims protesting forced Mosque closure in France = HUNDREDS

by kpop in

so it is now two days after another islamic terrorist attack.

how many muslims are in the streets protesting and condemning this evil?

how many are marching in all the big cities condemning this in mass protests?.

bohm

Simon: If you don't believe it as written, why not simply restate it? I would be happy to look for your question and try to answer it but quite frankly, I am confused as to what arguments and opinions on this subject and which are okay and which are off limits, and it does not make sense to continue a discussion which is against posting guidelines.

233

Number of Muslims protesting London terrorist attack = ZERO. Number of Muslims protesting forced Mosque closure in France = HUNDREDS

by kpop in

so it is now two days after another islamic terrorist attack.

how many muslims are in the streets protesting and condemning this evil?

how many are marching in all the big cities condemning this in mass protests?.

bohm

Ruby: I think that what people are objecting to about Islam is that ideas like child marriage shouldn't be in currency but that they are makes Islam reprehensible. I think this sort of reasoning is pretty cogent don't you?

Yes, as I have written many times, I think the Quran is full of things I find morally indefensible. But this is not the topic I raised several pages back, which was the assertion that good Muslims have to rape, something which I remain unconvinced of.

Since this or other of my views (although I am not sure which) are too controversial for this forum I cannot comment further. So much for open debate, I guess.

233

Number of Muslims protesting London terrorist attack = ZERO. Number of Muslims protesting forced Mosque closure in France = HUNDREDS

by kpop in

so it is now two days after another islamic terrorist attack.

how many muslims are in the streets protesting and condemning this evil?

how many are marching in all the big cities condemning this in mass protests?.

bohm

Muhammed also had 4 wives. Are all Muslims with less than 4 wives not good muslims?

What about female muslims? do they also have to rape? When did we prove that?

233

Number of Muslims protesting London terrorist attack = ZERO. Number of Muslims protesting forced Mosque closure in France = HUNDREDS

by kpop in

so it is now two days after another islamic terrorist attack.

how many muslims are in the streets protesting and condemning this evil?

how many are marching in all the big cities condemning this in mass protests?.

bohm

LUHE:

Agree that Muhammed was a pedophile according to the Quran, and pedophilia is widespread in the Arab world for that reason. But obviously, not all Muslims agree, as your sources indicate.

How does that prove that a good Muslim have to rape?

Why does a muslim become "non good" if he does not rape?

233

Number of Muslims protesting London terrorist attack = ZERO. Number of Muslims protesting forced Mosque closure in France = HUNDREDS

by kpop in

so it is now two days after another islamic terrorist attack.

how many muslims are in the streets protesting and condemning this evil?

how many are marching in all the big cities condemning this in mass protests?.

bohm

LUHE: You agree with the claim that all good muslims have to rape. Proving that some parts of Islam admits rape is not the same as proving that all good Muslims have to rape

Do you believe all "good Muslims" are in ISIS?

233

Number of Muslims protesting London terrorist attack = ZERO. Number of Muslims protesting forced Mosque closure in France = HUNDREDS

by kpop in

so it is now two days after another islamic terrorist attack.

how many muslims are in the streets protesting and condemning this evil?

how many are marching in all the big cities condemning this in mass protests?.

bohm

Although not necessarily considered part of mainstream Islam, everything ISIS does is according to Sharia and the example of Muhammad. So, ISIS members have the required qualities of Muhammad's example and meet the strict standard of Sharia. Hence, they can be spoken of as 'good' Muslims.

Okay. So we agree that on ISIS interpretation of Islam, rape is fine and dandy in some cases. What you have demonstrated so far is therefore that on ISIS interpretation of Islam, which you yourself describe as not necessarily mainstream*, rape is fine. Accordingly you implicitly agree there are other interpretation of Islam according to which rape is not okay. (you agree with me on that? or do you believe all interpretations of Islam teaches its adherents they *have* to rape?)

At most where you end up is that you work with a definition of "good muslim" according to which ISIS are PART of the set of good Muslims and ISIS allows rape (I refrain from parsing the difference between allows and orders rape, i.e. the "have").

Can you please tell me how you get from these premises to the statement that a "good Muslim" have to rape?

For your ISIS example to be relevant you will have to prove ISIS contains all the "good Muslims". I know ISIS believes that, but I am very curious as to how you will prove it.

233

Number of Muslims protesting London terrorist attack = ZERO. Number of Muslims protesting forced Mosque closure in France = HUNDREDS

by kpop in

so it is now two days after another islamic terrorist attack.

how many muslims are in the streets protesting and condemning this evil?

how many are marching in all the big cities condemning this in mass protests?.

bohm

SBF: Don't despair, any moment now LUHE will provide the intellectual artillery required to prove a good Muslim have to rape. It will be a brutal knock-down argument.