okay, so mixed responses :-). i take it the 144000 was yet another thing he got from second adventists? is the question "russell did not come up with any original doctrines that are not dropped today?" something one can bet a beer on? :-) .
Posts by bohm
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22Was pastor Russell right about ANYTHING?
by bohm inhey!.
pastor russell was wrong about a lot of things - one could make a really long list from any 10 random pages from the finished mystery.
but for fun i want to turn it around, so my question is this:.
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89
I am having some reservations about Barbara Anderson
by JWoods inrecently, there was a very nice thread in which one of our posters apologized for having the temerity to challenge barbara anderson.. i thought it was very nice to see that they made up and put the personal stuff aside.. however, i felt the need to call it like i really feel it - i was very put off by the barbara anderson reply in which she plugged her new promotional meeting.
it brought back memories of that horrid little affair from a couple of years back when she kept posting up "the greatest new thing about blood which will bring down the watchtower society is just around the corner -- and i could tell you but then i would have to kill you, etc."..
just like another jehovah's witnesses prophecy about the coming of the lord in our time.. i am beginning to wonder if perhaps the siren song of self-promotion is getting a little too strong for real life.. ok. i said it.. james - and saying it was not the easiest thing that i have ever done.
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bohm
Mary: hell yes! . this is just getting stupid.
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25
Blood Fractions - following quote from the Reasoning Book
by insearchoftruth inwhen i asked the elder about blood fractions he said that they are allowed because the bible does not speak directly to fractions....well if the bible does not speak directly to fractions, upon what did they base the below statement in the reasoning from the scriptures book....... .
animal flesh may be eaten, but not the blood.
gen. 9:3,4: "every moving animal that is alive may serve.
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bohm
PSacramento: No, blood that is eaten works like a nutrition, just like eating a liver and getting a liver transplant is not the same thing. the interesting part is that they make the connection by amongst other thing quote people who have been dead for centuries in the blood brouchure on watchtower.org. its really that far out
thats why the thing about eating and transfusing alcohol is dead on wrong. eating and transfusing alcohol is pretty much the same thing. if you hear it, answer: "yeah, and if my doctor told me to abstain from meat, would it be allright for me to get a liver transplant?"
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22
Was pastor Russell right about ANYTHING?
by bohm inhey!.
pastor russell was wrong about a lot of things - one could make a really long list from any 10 random pages from the finished mystery.
but for fun i want to turn it around, so my question is this:.
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bohm
glenster: so what you say is that the following things was thought up by russell and is still believed today:
- 144000 is a litteral number, they go to heaven, the rest end up on earth. [as i know russell believed the earth was for all outside his group]
- 42000 years of creation [actually thought they dumped that years ago... interesting. it opens up yet another scientific can of worms]
- Christianity should not be about charity [pretty vague]
- global warming [if you tilt your head and squeeze your eyes together, anyway :-)]
I think the invicible jesus idea originated with the millerites just after their first failure, and was reused by barbour to apply to 1874 and then by jw to 1914, and that he believed that the trouble would END in 1914. actually as far as i know ww1 was not connected to jesus presence or as an indication of the end untill years after his death, thus it can hardly be said to be anything he got right in any meaningfull way.
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22
Was pastor Russell right about ANYTHING?
by bohm inhey!.
pastor russell was wrong about a lot of things - one could make a really long list from any 10 random pages from the finished mystery.
but for fun i want to turn it around, so my question is this:.
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bohm
Hey!
Pastor Russell was wrong about a lot of things - one could make a really long list from any 10 random pages from the finished mystery. But for fun i want to turn it around, so my question is this:
What teachings or idea originated from pastor Russell (or the watchtower up to his death) which today is recognized as true by jehovahs witnesses?
Notice this would rule out such things like no hell, no eternal soul (since he got those ideas from others) and that the gentiles times ended in 1914, since his interpretation of what the end of the gentile times meant is (to my understanding!) completely different than the one in use today.
I cant really think of a single thing...
bonus! the same question for Judge Rutherford.
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42
Upcoming Study with a Bethel Brother
by PSacramento inso, after a lengthy discussion with my mom on friday, she asked me ( again) to have a study with a bethel brother because the question i ask are too "above" her knowledge and she feels that only a well trained bethel brother can show me the "truth".. i voiced to her my issue:.
i love my mother, father and sister that are jw's and the last thing i want is to lose them, we had already drifted apart because of their new found faith ( my mom was first, about 8 years ago, then my older sister and just recently, last july 4th, my dad), i told her that if i have these study with a bethel brother i will, most likely, sya thing and state sources that may get me brnaded as an "apostate", i asked her, to be honest and truthful with me and to tell me that, if i get branded that and they are told, suggest to them, to stop dealing with me, would they?.
she said that no organization tells her who to deal with, even more so in regards to family.. i was not convinced, nevertheless i agreed and this wednesday will have my first study with him, first topic the mwt, my issue with certain translations ( such as romans 10:13, colossians and so forth) and the name "jehovha".. .
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bohm
ps: I am for reasons much like yours having a study with an elder. The two topics i have desided to hit on is blood and the selection in 1919. Blood is by far the easiest topic to discuss. the way i have chosen is to say: "okay, you are the bible expert. if you say the bible says no to blood im going to assume that is so. But i still want to know that the blood ban is logically consistent. The number one question that boils my noodle is this: What is the watchtower definition of blood? At some point, the watchtower desided that certain substances was 'fractions', and certain substances was equal to 'whole blood'. What criteria led to that descision?". Then you KEEP ON TOPIC. Whenever they try to buy you off with some vague explanation, ask: "Okay.. look, im just trying to understand this. Should i understand it this way that the watchtower does not have a functional definition of what blood is yes or no?". They will allways say yes, follow up by asking what it is. Read the "Jensen blood letters" to see why this is a huge problem to the wt.
About the selection - "Captives of a concept" provides good ammunition, if you want something for free, download rogersons book "millions now living will never die", its a great historical study on jehovahs witnesses. http://www.jehovahs-witness.net/watchtower/bible/180377/1/A-Couple-of-Interesting-Analyses-of-Jehovahs-Witnesses . Alternatively, lend "Apocapolypse delayed" from a library for a deeper historical study.
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just a few questions I don't want to ask directly hell
by Janey214 inhello - first may i apologise for capital letters my keyboard has gone screwy.
for the last several months i have been having meetings with two really nice women from the jw organisation.
i don't want to offend anyone by asking these questions i am simply trying to better understand how the watchtower came about without listening to too much anti stuff.
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bohm
Janey: Hey and welcome!
You read you dont want to read apostate stuff, and i can understand that. But what i really want you to consider is to read some things about cults in general. This is not written by apostates - just psychiatrists and people who have nothing to do with jehovahs witnesses. you can just search on google on cults and read the first things you hit. Alternatively, you should read Stephen Hassans book, "Combating cult mind control". Stephen has never been a jehovahs witness and the book is about cults in general and how to recognize them.
Secondly - i really think that when you are investigating a religion, you should read stuff both for and against. Like you might study 80% material thats for the group, and 20% against. Jehovahs witness has given many people quite traumatic experiences and i think its reason to investigate what they claim throughoutly. I have some books i can email you if you like, just send me a personal message (can be done if you click on my name).
Best of luck!
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Reverse Engineering the WTS CD ROM
by besty inhas anyone ever done this?.
would be cool to be able to run custom searches like the overall incidence of certain words or scriptures on an annual basis.
i'm sure smarter than me could come up with some handy uses..... thoughts?.
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bohm
hm. i have monkeyed around a bit (10 min) and as far as i can tell it looks pretty home cooked by the WTS and not trivial. Would be cool to get some response on this.
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30
The Cross and Crown
by TD inhttp://www.daughtersofisabella.org/main.asp .
http://www.delawarestmary.org/virtual-tour/stained-glass-medallions.
http://www.slkschool.com/aboutslk.php.
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bohm
TD: Thanks for the research. i allways hated all that OMGJWISTEHCONSPIRACY stuff. its not. their problem is that their message is wrong and they are teaching it in an unethical way. thats the problem and this is only distracting the discussion. Another thing i would like to see put in the grave is the stuff about hidden images...
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275
IF it is NOT wise for a man to be ALONE with a woman he's NOT married to
by Spike Tassel insola scriptura answered andersonsinfo:.
the wt leadership has hammered into all of it's elders and rank & file's heads, that it is not wise for a man to be alone with a woman he is not married too (adult or young woman... ie 14).
even in congregation sanctioned duties.. so, why, then, do so many service pairings involve just that: a brother alone in the territory (even if it's to make a call) with a sister he's not married to?.
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bohm
spike: im not into the rules and regulations, but if you conscience allows it in any way, i say go for it! your a gentleman, you wont make a fool out of yourself, so whats the worst thing that can happend? that she say no? even in that case - 10 years from now when you look back on your life and remember this time, do you want to remember that you dared tell your love, or that you spend yet another night answering yet another wood-headed atheist on yet another noahs-ark thread? keep us posted!