Posts by Introspection

33

How Have U Changed since Leaving?

by patio34 in

i've been thinking about changes in my world view lately and wonder if others have had a similarly subtle, yet profound, outlook on life.

not being a jw nor even a believer anymore has made a subtle change that ive observed.

to begin with, i read somewhere that people tend to bring their own standards to their religion.

Introspection

I've found that also. There aren't pervasive and invasive dictates on every situation in your life on how to act and react. Your own identify (good, bad, or indifferent!) can then flourish.

Hi Pat,

Actually this is not what I had in mind. The thing is, these identities have no inherent reality, for example you need a person - a good person, bad person or indifferent person and an ego to make that judgement. So as far as I'm concerned that doesn't truly qualify as an identity. You may experience those things in any given moment, (even if some moments are longer than others, it is nevertheless momentary) but that's just not what you are. Certainly we have conditioning that we didn't intentionally set into place through some nicely thought out story, but those aren't it either. It seems to me it's like some ex-JW's are so happy that their non-JW conditioning and motivational factors can come to the surface now they just go and have a ball with that. Well, that's fine, I just want to go farther than that. As far as I'm concerned, if you just clinging to all the non-JW things is not freedom at all, you're just hoping being caught up in every/any thing else will bring you happiness.

I guess you could say that as far as I'm concerned, if you need an identity then the real you isn't really out of the closet yet. But of course, some people like to try on a lot of different clothes.

33

How Have U Changed since Leaving?

by patio34 in

i've been thinking about changes in my world view lately and wonder if others have had a similarly subtle, yet profound, outlook on life.

not being a jw nor even a believer anymore has made a subtle change that ive observed.

to begin with, i read somewhere that people tend to bring their own standards to their religion.

Introspection

I have changed in that I have come to realize I am not my thoughts, feelings, world view, philosophy or any of that stuff. The good thing about this is you don't have to develop this over a long period of time, it can work in this moment, right now. Although it may sound like that would discount all the good stuff like being nice to people and love and all that, those things actually come from the recognition that you are not all those artificial constructs, and the genuine article can then appear. There are some people who consider this kind of stuff profound or extraordinary, but while it may be uncommon it is in fact very ordinary. It's just what is, no fancy interpretations, nothing added.

18

Athiest Moral Code?

by Xena in

jw
friends

i was talking with an athiest friend the other day and he brought up the subject of how society in general has been governed by the christian moral code.

some christians apparently predict chaos in society if an athiest moral code ever replaced the christian one.

this made me wonder....what is the athiest moral code?

Introspection

Of course the main tennet of the paganism that I practice forbids converting anyone or convincing them their God is wrong.

Hmm, sounds rather like the Prime Directive from Star Trek!

I couldn't help but notice this one from the link of suggested atheist moral code page:

9.THINK FOR YOURSELF !! ( thanks to Brian Taylor for this one)

Does anyone else see the irony here? You should think for yourself, but evidently a guy named Brian Taylor helped the author think up that one. But this is just an observation, nothing about athiests in particular. The thing about any "code" or practice of course is that it's basically dead. I mean, it's fine to say ok, we all looked at this and it's a good idea, but all too often the people who are for this forget the point of it all. There seems to be a lot of this in the Buddhist communities I am around, they talk about practice - or sitting meditation, if they're smart they'll have a more inclusive defintion, but nevertheless it is inevitably a dead definition. It reminds me of the video game about Cyberpunks where there is a religious house of worship called the "House of Pong" where they worship the first joystick. You can bet those people are not having any fun, which is the point of video games isn't it? Likewise it seems to be like that with how people approach life through a set of rules. It's not that those things are not* a good idea, but I guess people focus more on the idea of things being a rule rather than what the hell the rule is. God, what morons. (mind you, I'm sort of a Buddhist myself, but only on Tuesdays)

*edited for.. that

Edited by - Introspection on 8 September 2002 1:37:5

3

B.C.E Training

by Nordic in

is there anybody there know about b.c.e ?

Introspection

Colonics?

7

Who are you outside of a thought?

by Introspection in

hi all, i thought this question might be useful for some here, i find it tends to be a powerful tool that points to the fact that we are not the thoughts that tends to bring on depression or what have you.

obviously, if you stop thinking you don't just disappear, and thoughts of course come and go but you are always there.. anyways, something to consider.

you might say this is one of those questions that are not meant for an answer, but i say go right ahead and answer it, if the answer is something outside of a thought.

Introspection

Well, I think I would go backwards and say I am, therefore I think. To say I think therefore I am is almost like saying 'I post, therefore I am' - sure that would define you as a message poster, or we can replace any other activity/identity combination there, but I think ultimately our potential is too vast to view things this way. Basically, there's a tendancy of identifying with the product of what you are rather than you, where the thing originated - be it a thought or behavior or whatever. In the past I've been fond of quoting the movie Fight Club to make this point, where he makes statements like those in these articles about body organs written in the first person. "I am Jack's raging bile duct."

So anyways, another way of pointing to the same thing is if we can shape our lives with our thoughts, then what is it that shapes our thoughts in the first place? See, actually I wasn't only pointing to the physical organism when I say we still exist in the absence of thought, but then again I don't make any separations of body and mind and the like.

"I am Introspection's message on 'Who are you outside of a thought?' "

Edited by - Introspection on 3 September 2002 0:51:53

5

Indestructible Computers Made From Rubber!!!

by Celtic in

jw
friends

aghhhhhhhh!!!!

i ruddy well hate computers sometimes, absolutely despise the damn things.

i want to kick it in it's groin, give it a double left hook and then slam a right into it's midriff.

Introspection

Did you ever see the movie Office Space? There's a scene in there where the guys from the office take out their frustrations on a piece of hardware. Then again, maybe you just need an occupational hypnotherapist..

5

Enabling Personal Development through Powerpoint

by Celtic in

jw
friends

does anyone here have experience of using powerpoint presentations software?.

how about those of us who are familiar with using powerpoint, put our heads together to design a concept that proves beneficial in the personal development of former witnesses in easing their passage from the many depressive disorders towards futher platforms in enabling positive personal development?.

does anyone have any ideas for the content of such a readily accessible format?.

Introspection

Ok something more specific.. How about little voice files with different ex witnesses saying a few words about where they've gone since then? So it's like real people rather than just ideas.

5

Enabling Personal Development through Powerpoint

by Celtic in

jw
friends

does anyone here have experience of using powerpoint presentations software?.

how about those of us who are familiar with using powerpoint, put our heads together to design a concept that proves beneficial in the personal development of former witnesses in easing their passage from the many depressive disorders towards futher platforms in enabling positive personal development?.

does anyone have any ideas for the content of such a readily accessible format?.

Introspection

Hey Mark, what's the big idea with excluding impersonal development? That's certainly a viable path particularly if you're looking at easing suffering.. But I would say keeping the content very general to the point that it's just some basic principles that many would agree on would be good, after all it's all too easy to just buy into some other thought system rather than using one's own natural intelligence and volition.

7

Who are you outside of a thought?

by Introspection in

hi all, i thought this question might be useful for some here, i find it tends to be a powerful tool that points to the fact that we are not the thoughts that tends to bring on depression or what have you.

obviously, if you stop thinking you don't just disappear, and thoughts of course come and go but you are always there.. anyways, something to consider.

you might say this is one of those questions that are not meant for an answer, but i say go right ahead and answer it, if the answer is something outside of a thought.

Introspection

Hi Pat,

Yep, the funny thing is sometimes I even have fun being bored, or atleast while I'm not really doing anything. Have fun with the kickboxing tape, I say whatever you can have fun doing is the best exercise. (well.. provided you don't enjoy isolating your pinky in your workout or something ) But in terms of being free, I think I'd have to say being free from 'yourself' is the ultimate freedom.

I think having gone through my massage therapy training I have a little bit better appreciation of the physical body, whether it's activity or taking care of yourself through diet or what have you. It would be interesting to see how many cases of mental illness can be cured if only people took care of their health generally in this way. Of course, before it can be done people have to be educated, so I would certainly say it's not all about motivation. At the same time, though, it seems it's all too common that many people have an over active mind in the sense of using it when it's not necessary, and sometimes using it to your own detriment, telling yourself stories (and coming up with them in the first place) that simply isn't true and what not. Of course, all I'm expressing is concepts anyways, and concepts only point to the real thing, and this message is ultimately not the important thing. Anyone who reads and becomes satisfied simply because it makes some logical sense probably does not get out enough..

Edited by - Introspection on 2 September 2002 13:39:28

7

Who are you outside of a thought?

by Introspection in

hi all, i thought this question might be useful for some here, i find it tends to be a powerful tool that points to the fact that we are not the thoughts that tends to bring on depression or what have you.

obviously, if you stop thinking you don't just disappear, and thoughts of course come and go but you are always there.. anyways, something to consider.

you might say this is one of those questions that are not meant for an answer, but i say go right ahead and answer it, if the answer is something outside of a thought.

Introspection

Hi all, I thought this question might be useful for some here, I find it tends to be a powerful tool that points to the fact that we are not the thoughts that tends to bring on depression or what have you. Obviously, if you stop thinking you don't just disappear, and thoughts of course come and go but you are always there.. Anyways, something to consider. You might say this is one of those questions that are not meant for an answer, but I say go right ahead and answer it, if the answer is something outside of a thought.

By the way, do any of you know what sports psychology involves? I might take a class but don't know if it's worth my time. I'm not interested in the competitive aspect, basically motivation for health and fitness. Thanks.