Posts by Introspection

10

"Us and Them Mentality"

by rocketman in

jw
friends

from newsweek magazine, march 10, 2003, page 33: .

"but, as theologians in a number of faiths remind is, the demonization of the enemy - an "us and them" mentality - can inhibit self-examination and repentant action, critical components of any faith.

this statement appears in an article about us president bush's religious faith and how it factors in with regard to the current campaign against iraq.

I think demonizing 'them' is a step farther from the basic us and them mentality, though. You can have this same attitude without making the other party total villains, you might just not care enough to have a dialogue with 'them' for example.

This works both ways. Of course. there is a difference between distancing yourself, poo-pooing the other side and making qualitative distinctions, and if someone thinks this way that's just calling it what it is. On this level, witnesses actually have a lot in common with other people, because most people do think this way, even if they don't demonize others. Not being a witness anymore is also no guarantee that one has given up this divisive perspective.

5

Addressing mind control helps the person and helps them leave

by Introspection in

jw
friends

in talking to those that go to the local xjw support group here, it occurred to me that when we address the mental/psychological aspect of witness indoctrination it kind of kills two birds with one stone.

i think this is especially helpful because you can talk about mind control without directly pointing a finger at the wts (of course there is a time for that too) - but it seems it would help you get the wheels turning first.

comparing this to the bombarding-them-with-facts-about-the-society approach, it seems a lot more subtle if not more effective.

Introspection

In talking to those that go to the local XJW support group here, it occurred to me that when we address the mental/psychological aspect of witness indoctrination it kind of kills two birds with one stone. I think this is especially helpful because you can talk about mind control without directly pointing a finger at the WTS (of course there is a time for that too) - but it seems it would help you get the wheels turning first. Comparing this to the bombarding-them-with-facts-about-the-society approach, it seems a lot more subtle if not more effective. Not only that, but this promotes a degree of mental health by shedding light on the person's thinking pattern, rather than just pulling the rug from under them and then you have this desperate person going: "What now?? I have nothing left." The fact is, very often it seems the 'what now' or where do I go and what should I believe now question is actually the person seeking another form of mind control, and it doesn't have to be religion. It seems to me this approach of inviting a person to examine how their thinking pattern is shaped basically allows them to help themselves. True freedom is not just freedom from the Watchtower.

2

Pagan ex-JW site

by Introspection in

jw
friends

they still got that up?

is there a chat room there?

Introspection

They still got that up? Is there a chat room there?

16

Do You Think Your Faith Was Real?

by sandy in

i was baptized at 13 and i never felt a close personal relationship with god.

my prayers were without emotion.

i nver felt close to god.

Introspection

I am slowly getting some faith back. In what, is the question.

Well put Mulan. We might even go farther and question what this thing we call faith is. If we define faith as belief in something, then obviously most of us here has lost that if we ever had it, since our thinking has changed. I would quote the movie Dogma where it says it's not a question of what we put faith in, just that we have faith. I tend to think of faith like love in this way: If you put faith in something, your idea of what the truth is or whatever, that's like someone who really loves someone or something. Big deal. If we're talking about a person that is just plain loving though, not just limited to any particular person or object, now that's someone we like to be around. In the same way if we're talking about a person that just has faith and are not limited by a belief system, I think such a person can be a real inspiration.

44

Please Just Take Me Home...

by Valis in

jw
friends

if htere were anything i ever wanted it was to be like all the other kids i saw in my life...free to accept gifts, love and unconditional reasoning from adults...even as an adult this is all i rarely ask for...where is your family when it would be nice to have them?

would something please just take me home?.

sincerely,.

Introspection

Hey Valis,

I know this isn't exactly what you said, but maybe it's time to make this point. Nobody, not even the most loving parents can have unconditional love. Mind you, a parent may love you as much as a human being can love another human being, but that right there is actually a condition, that's what I mean by unconditional love - in the absolute sense of the word, truly unconditional.

Now I'm sure a lot of people will be like: "Who gives a shit about THAT Intro??? It's pretty good that someone loves you as much as a human being can! What else can you ask for??" Well, I guess I mention this because in my world love is pretty much synonymous with freedom. People often think of love as having ties with people or things, but I only see those as ties. I'm sure we know about dysfunctional relationships where one party might be clingy, or both for that matter - to me that's just being addicted to a person, the way they make you feel and so on - whether it's from a lover or a family member.

To me real unconditional love that is totally free cannot come from an object or a person for that matter, it is naturally present in nature. Have you ever felt miserable but got tired of resisting it, and felt what a relief it was to just let yourself feel that 'negative emotion'? People tend to be uncomfortable with others who might be feeling miserable, but often when you're left alone and perhaps more importantly, leave yourself alone, it dissolves. There's an open and spacious quality about it, such that you can be exactly how you feel like being - just being yourself, even if that's a miserable feeling guy at the moment. I'd known about this for a while and understood the principle, but one day I finally realized: This is what it means to go home.

20

Spritual Emptyness

by JH in

jw
friends

.

now that you don't practise any kind of religion anymore, do you feel a certain emptyness as far as your spirituality is concerned?.

have we become like animals, without any spirituality?.

Introspection

Does anyone here have any doubts about the Bible?

Rebel, I now take a very simple approach to the bible - I decide based on what it says in any given part. I think for exJW's and ex anythings who had some preconceived notions about the bible, the important thing is not to come up with new interpretations, but to let your existing ones go. My guess is most of the world has a distorted understanding of the bible actually, particularly the parts where Jesus spoke. You may get some specific bits right, but people tend to use it to support their own world view like anything else.

The bottom line is: Does it make sense? But before you even ask that about the bible we might ask the same question about our own thinking. We have to first recognize that any information we take it, be it from the bible or any other supposedly authoritative source, goes through our mind with its way of thinking. If our perception is distorted in the first place it doesn't really matter if the information is good or not, the thing that needs clarity in that case is our heads, not the data.

6

Enlightenment

by Introspection in

jw
friends

well, i thought a few of you out there might be interested in this, this is taken from the book ask the awakened by wei wu wei:.

enlightenment by non-action.

all so-called volition is a manifestation of the i-concept.

Introspection

Well, I thought a few of you out there might be interested in this, this is taken from the book Ask the Awakened by Wei Wu Wei:

Enlightenment by Non-Action
All so-called volition is a manifestation of the I-concept. Who seeks enlightenment? As long as it is sought under the compulsion of the I-concept how could it possibly be realised?
On the other hand, as soon as the I-concept disappears, it is seen to be there all the time.
But the I-concept only wants pseudo-enlightenment, by which it can pose as a sage; realisation, involving its own liquidation, does not appear at all desirable, and it will place every possible obstacle in the way.
This is the reason why any and every 'method', 'discipline' etc., subject to the I-concept, must be a path leading away from home. Since all action that is not non-action, or, as we see it, spontaneous, is performed under the compulsion of the I-concept--for there is no other 'actor', that is no real 'actor at all--enlightenment or satori can only be the consequence of non-action.
Service
Gratifying the I-concept can never render a service. That, no doubt, is why the Masters never did it, for rendering service was their sole use of living.
Yet it is our sole method of what we regard as rendering service.

20

Spritual Emptyness

by JH in

jw
friends

.

now that you don't practise any kind of religion anymore, do you feel a certain emptyness as far as your spirituality is concerned?.

have we become like animals, without any spirituality?.

Introspection

You know, it's funny that people talk about emptiness as if it's something, when of course it is nothing. Of course I understand we're talking about a feeling of emptiness, but then that's not really empty is it? If we just go by the simple definition of nothing for emptiness, then there isn't even that feeling. Nothing is just nothing. One might also call this peace.

This understanding is not limited to eastern traditions. I remember when I was still a JW I was delivering phone books one summer, and I came across a church with open doors and there was a priest praying inside - total silence. This freaked me out, because I had this same mindset of spirituality having to be something full - being an experience junkie you might say. But really, I think this is what the bible calls peace beyond understanding, or 'peace of God that excels all thought' if you go by the NWT. It's nothing but a thought that interprets emptiness as a bad thing - but the ironic thing is there's no need to be concerned about emptiness when you have this thought, and not only that but emptiness is actually no-thing in the first place so how can it be a bad thing?

The heart sutra says 'form is emptiness and emptiness is form', but understanding the logic of this statement won't make you realize it. Just stop seeking and identifying with things. If it's always there and everywhere, you can look where you are right now.

21

How did you rebuild your belief systems

by happysistah in

jw
friends

i have not formerly introduced myself to you all.

i'm happy sistah.

i was raised as a witness.

Introspection

Like some others I didn't try to build another belief system. I did go to college and was exposed to other ways of thinking, but this is not what was pivotal for me.

The big thing for me was the simple realization that beliefs, like any other thoughts are not the real thing, they only refer to things which are real, at best. Thoughts are just thoughts, nothing more. Therefore, if you want to know what's true, it is not a matter of changing your mind in any way, you have to realize that your own mind is just your own mind, your own view of the world was never the real thing anyway. Most people tend to get caught up in their own way of thinking, but of course the simple fact of the matter is there is a great big world out there that is as it is whether your idea of the world is relatively close or way off base about it. Even if you have a pretty accurate view of the world, if you don't recognize this fact you'll be mistaken in the final analysis.

See, even the belief about God falls into the same category. That's not to say there is no God, just like a distorted world view doesn't necessarily mean there is no world, but the first step is just to see it's all been just a bunch of thoughts. Thoughts, especially beliefs, are more likely to distort your view of reality than clarify it. So I guess I am just saying in my way what Farkel and maybe others have said about detoxing, clearing out your mind so you can just see clearly. The question is, do you want to know what's true or do you want something to believe in?

So to me, it makes no sense whatsoever to build another belief system. My thinking about things will naturally change according to life experience, but I take none of it seriously and don't cling to one piece like "this is IT!" To actually build another belief system is just to build another illusion, another house of cards. It may be a better one in terms of being not nearly as dysfunctional as the WTS, but illusion is illusion. Some people are not ready to live this way, and that's fine - I make no judgements. But I think this is useful to mention and something one might just keep in the back of their mind even if you do go searching for more beliefs.

6

Honk if you love Jesus.

by lulu in

i bought it and put it on my back bumper and i'm glad i did.

what an uplifting experience followed.

that bumper sticker really worked!!

Introspection

That was YOU??

I'm the one with: "Jesus loves you - everyone else think's you're an a--hole."