Posts by Introspection

10

Integrating emotion and intellect ..

by Introspection in

jw
friends

i was thinking about this the other day, and i've basically been taking the attitude of "don't say too much to them, or they'll flip.

" some balance is called for of course, but i think i've been leaning too much to one side, in that my intellect is kind of shoved in the background because i am so worried about hurting people's feelings.

in a way i guess this wouldn't be honest, either.

Introspection

Thanks for the response everybody.

Unc,

As JW's go from door to door more and more seeds of doubt are planted .. that's it! More door knocking campaigns that's the cure!

Actually, I have to say that is the case for me! Of course, I do live in northern California, and you do have a lot of different perspectives here.. But perhaps even one different perspective would make them think, even if it is very similar. Hopefully they don't go from one narrow belief system to another, though.

Saint, that's a good call, of course we were even taught that in TMS eh? I don't think they exactly trust me though. I used to be room mates with an elder and a guy who I think is now a MS, and I think the elder has a clue that I'm not telling them a lot of stuff. (I told them I went on a month long meditation retreat) I'm thinking I can start with my other friend, who I think is more receptive with some basic down to earth questions though. Good reminder.

Preston it is good to start with some common ground, another great suggestion. Thanks.

Ashitaka, I've been hoping to let them speak, but they don't speak very much because there's a degree of apprehension. When they moved out a friend of mine who's a theology student was moving in, and he had a little talk with the elder and then I came home, and while I didn't say anything related to the bible my friend thought he was scared to death lol.. Oh well. BTW, what does your name mean?

10

Integrating emotion and intellect ..

by Introspection in

jw
friends

i was thinking about this the other day, and i've basically been taking the attitude of "don't say too much to them, or they'll flip.

" some balance is called for of course, but i think i've been leaning too much to one side, in that my intellect is kind of shoved in the background because i am so worried about hurting people's feelings.

in a way i guess this wouldn't be honest, either.

Introspection

PS: There are a number a great books about cult mind control and if an even handed one like Steve Hassans "Combatting Cult Mind Control" fell accross the path of your average JW .. kingdom halls would empty quicker than they could shout DEMONISED APOSTATE!

Wouldn't they just throw it away or have a burning ceremony?

Seriously, I certainly recognize the need to be selective.. I suppose there isn't much we can do for some, I'd sooner attempt an exorcism than try to reach someone who is just totally shut down. But hopefully there is something out there which lays it out in a comprehensive way. (not specifically mind control, though for JWs it is no doubt helpful)

5

Let's talk about SOUL

by Aintthatcute in

something that i am having trouble grasping is my soul.

ok, soul as it is defined by the wbts.. in the reasoning from the scriptures, pg 375, this is what is stated:.

[soul.

Introspection

It seems like there's no agreement eh? Let me ask you one question: Are you asking about the biblical idea of soul, (assuming there is 100% unanimity among the different books of the bible) or just in general?

I started writing something detailed but deleted it. Sorry if this is long, but let me first start by saying that I'm not responding personally or anything, you might see this message as me talking to myself and hashing things out because I think the topic is an interesting one.

I think one thing worth noting is that we tend to think of soul as two ideas: individuality as well as life. I'm sure there will be others with detailed bible related answers so I'll leave that alone. I think it is useful to see the two factors as a whole, but there's an important distinction here. Now I know not everyone is just out to save themselves, but consider the word soul as used in the old saying "sell your soul to the devil." Since even the witnesses say you need to make the truth your own, the idea of conforming to certain ideas and belief because it means everlasting life is like selling your soul isn't it? Although someone may choose to change themselves, atleast a part of them sees their goal as worthy.

Now if we look at the soul as that individuality, (the other part being the life force as in the breath of life) then the question is what is that individuality? What makes a decision yours, when you choose to believe something or not, and so on? We call that free will, but there's also no questioning that there are many influences on our beliefs and behaviors - if the witnesses did not recognize that they would not be so afraid of exposure to "apostates."

Now if you find these ideas interesting, Aint, I'd be happy to discuss them further with you. If not, (but if anyone else is interested) I can just take it to another thread, I don't want to hijack yours. Because the next point is kind of a big deal, some people may not want to hear it.

10

Integrating emotion and intellect ..

by Introspection in

jw
friends

i was thinking about this the other day, and i've basically been taking the attitude of "don't say too much to them, or they'll flip.

" some balance is called for of course, but i think i've been leaning too much to one side, in that my intellect is kind of shoved in the background because i am so worried about hurting people's feelings.

in a way i guess this wouldn't be honest, either.

Introspection

I was thinking about this the other day, and I've basically been taking the attitude of "don't say too much to them, or they'll flip." Some balance is called for of course, but I think I've been leaning too much to one side, in that my intellect is kind of shoved in the background because I am so worried about hurting people's feelings. In a way I guess this wouldn't be honest, either. In the end, I may not be doing them any favors but maybe even allowing some harm.

While I'm interested in talking to witnesses, being "balanced" in this way is certainly a good general goal to strive for. I guess one way to look at it is that there's a tendancy to consider the other person's personality, in that they may be very emotional. (especially when it comes to something like religion) Frankly, people you talk to may not be so balanced.

So one question that comes to mind is what is emotion? I'd like to pose this question to those on the board who are aware of different theories about it, in terms of psychology and other formal systematic studies. (which, I suppose would be a type of psychology anyway)

Also, I'd also be interested in understanding the emotional dynamics in interpersonal communication. I tend to do pretty well on my own and ideas from books don't throw me off balance, but dealing with people is always more complicated.

Now I will certainly do a bit of reading and research myself, but since we do have some mental health professionals and other people who are well read I am hoping to get some ideas to start with. Anyways, it is a good topic for discussion yah?

29

Does anyone here believe the Bible?

by sawthelight in

jw
friends

ive noticed many posts relating to evolution and i'm just wondering does anyone frequenting this board believe in the bible?

it seems that just because most have bad experiences with the wt that everyone here is an atheist.

i myself was something at least of an agnostic for quite some time after breaking free of the borg, but now i see things in a different light.

Introspection

I will add just one thing, and that is it would only make sense for you to base your understanding and belief of the bible based on its contents. If you just tell yourself it's the word of God without first gaining some knowledge about it, then what kind of faith is that? Maybe I'm just a theocratic slacker, but I never went through it (in its entirety) that thoroughly, I mean hey if you really want to get into it you need to have some knowledge of greek, hebrew, aramaic and know QUITE a bit. So, sure if you want to study it then study it, it may be intersting to read such discussions. But talking about it in a round about way just isn't that meaningful.

29

Does anyone here believe the Bible?

by sawthelight in

jw
friends

ive noticed many posts relating to evolution and i'm just wondering does anyone frequenting this board believe in the bible?

it seems that just because most have bad experiences with the wt that everyone here is an atheist.

i myself was something at least of an agnostic for quite some time after breaking free of the borg, but now i see things in a different light.

Introspection

Ok Tina, I can see your response as directly to the thread topic and Sawthelight. I hope it's atleast evident that I was trying to make sense of things as opposed to a simple assumption. (the embellishment was not dull was it? )

I must say, a question of this type is vague and hard to talk about. I was trying to keep it general, but it looks like that attempt might have accounted for my misunderstanding.

The bible is a big book, what does "believing in the bible" mean to a given individual? That all the contents are to be interpreted literally? There are some books where it is obviously symbolic. Everyone will have a different take, in that their beliefs are not exactly the same. Actually, I suppose if you want to talk about "the fundamentals" as established at the counsel of xyz, (I'm sure others who know more will know the reference) atleast that's a place to start.

Actually, the bible is a collection of books. We're taught that it has one theme and there are connections, but when you get right down to it can you really pinpoint all of that in the 66 books?

And there's also the matter of what you understand Christianity to be. I'm sure all of us here are familiar with the idea of it as being following Jesus, as that was also taught to us as a response to other Christians. (after all, the JWs are not considered as Christians by many) But what does THAT mean? How do you understand Jesus? I personally keep it simple, love your neighbor is a cool idea, I'll go with that. But then there are other people who says that's not enough. Well, all I can say is if you want to really get into beliefs then that's a completely different game. My simple answer to this question would have to be "Yes, some of it." But of course that doesn't say a whole lot. I think you'd really have to start other threads and it would probably be more appropriate to put them under the Beliefs board. But frankly, my view of beliefs is that it's just a mental game. Sure we have to believe something, but is spirituality just about believing things?

29

Does anyone here believe the Bible?

by sawthelight in

jw
friends

ive noticed many posts relating to evolution and i'm just wondering does anyone frequenting this board believe in the bible?

it seems that just because most have bad experiences with the wt that everyone here is an atheist.

i myself was something at least of an agnostic for quite some time after breaking free of the borg, but now i see things in a different light.

Introspection

Tina, I said IF a person does not believe the bible because the WTS teaching then that logic would be a problem, who is this "some of us" you are talking about? If it doesn't apply to you then it doesn't apply to you. Tell me, how is the reasoning itself faulty? As far as I can see it just either applies or it doesn't. It is a possibility that "someone" may not do the research isn't it? Are you saying it is impossible that "some of us" would not take the time and effort to do that kind of research? I simply made a general statement, but it would seem that you are saying I am pointing to "some" specific group when I haven't. I might note that I made the statement that there are things of value, to speak of the bible as a whole would be a completely different matter. The idea of the golden rule is in the bible, is that not of value? Come on Tina, I'd think that I've been around long enough to where a long timer like yourself has a better idea of where I'm coming from.

151

Intro's quote-o-rama

by Introspection in

i guess i've been inspired by stephen's quote threads, so i'm going to start one myself.. not one particular author here, just whatever i can find:.

q: why do you think that people are so protective of their egos?

why is it so hard to let go of one's ego?.

Introspection

Couple more from One Taste:

"My problems start when the smarter bears and the dumber visitors intersect." -Yosemite Park official Steve Thompson.

To balance that out:

"I also know, from painful experience, that no matter how strong and seemingly unshakable one's spiritual realization, life can yank the rug right out from under you when you're not looking, and, more embarrassingly, when you are." -Ken Wilber

14

They know

by Vida in

jw
friends

the hardcore jehovahs witness know that it is not real, that its all a mind game or if you like a make-believe reality they live in.. all jws sooner or later come to this knowledge and then some decide to stay and some decide to leave.

Introspection

That really chaps my hide!

(Brooklyn New York?!?)

15

Why JWs and ex JWs Return to Watchtower 3

by Victor_E in

jw
friends

this post is an attempt to explain the paradoxical return of ex-jws back to the watchtower.

my premise is that a persons unconscious mind has a positive intent in leading them back to the former environment and the intent is of intrinsic value within individuals.. developmental psychology tells us there are six primary developmental stages in a persons life.

if a person experiences developmental gaps or underdevelopment of a stage all the others that follow will not develop properly and these will be affected.

Introspection

Victor, can you tell us what some therapies are for such developmental problems? My impression is that realistically, there isn't a whole lot you can do about it, practically speaking.. I mean sure, you can go into therapy but unfortunately it takes a lot of time and I can't see there ever being enough therapists to cover all those people out there. (of course I'm including non-JWs) I'd like to think we can come up with some creative solutions, frankly the world as a whole would seem pretty screwed if nothing can be done..