Welcome. To echo what everyone else has said, knowledge is your friend. Some have left the JWs and come to understand God as loving person who accepts them as an individual and this has been a freeing experience. Others have left the JWs and come to understand that God does not exist and this has been a freeing experience. When you leave the WT, it may feel devestating at first, but no matter which direction life takes you, there really is no where to go but up!
bluecanary
JoinedPosts by bluecanary
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78
Brand New: Currently Totally Devastated
by daringhart13 ini'm brand new to the board.
long time, "big shot" elder, ....taught at km school, conventions, etc.
yeah, i know it means nothing....but it gives you an idea of how deep i've been a jw.. i don't even really know what to write at this point.
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Do you want a new Hobby???
by zeroday* ini joined this group about 2 months ago.
it is a postcard trading club.
you send and receive postcards from all over the world.
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bluecanary
Bookmarked. I love postcards!
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Help - Need Some Tough Questions...
by Clam ini used to post a lot on here but rarely do these days.
i was asked by a friend today to give her some questions for a dub she's meeting tomorrow.
he's an arrogant one who says he can answer any question she has and consequently (haha) demonstrate that it's the truth.
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bluecanary
Crossposted with you Tim! Your videos are awesome.
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Help - Need Some Tough Questions...
by Clam ini used to post a lot on here but rarely do these days.
i was asked by a friend today to give her some questions for a dub she's meeting tomorrow.
he's an arrogant one who says he can answer any question she has and consequently (haha) demonstrate that it's the truth.
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The Marks the WT is God's Only Org on Earth
by maputo95 inwith monotous regularity, my jw friend says the proof that the org is god's only divinely inspired org on earth is the fact that they go door to door.
how should i respond to this convuluted logic?.
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bluecanary
Jesus said the mark of his followers would be love. I posted about why the JWs fail on this count a while back. Bring it back to the love.
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10 good reasons why celebrating birthdays should be allowed
by bluecanary ini cannot take credit for any of the gems below but i did want to polish and organize them.
much of the information was borrowed from this thread.
if you can come up with any more, please post them.. the bible does not ban birthdays.
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bluecanary
Excellent point, teel.
Hmm, the search feature is not working very well. Yesterday I read a thread that talked about the Goddess of grain, Ceres (for whom cereal was named). It said that Pagans would eat a tribute of wheat and milk to her in the mornnigs. I have not been able to confirm this, but the Pagan tie is still as relevant as it is to birthdays.
And wind chimes is probably now one of those conscience things, like pinatas. I've known JWs to have them.
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10 good reasons why celebrating birthdays should be allowed
by bluecanary ini cannot take credit for any of the gems below but i did want to polish and organize them.
much of the information was borrowed from this thread.
if you can come up with any more, please post them.. the bible does not ban birthdays.
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bluecanary
I cannot take credit for any of the gems below but I did want to polish and organize them. Much of the information was borrowed from this thread. If you can come up with any more, please post them.
- The Bible does not ban birthdays. Despite the fact that beheadings took place at both birthdays mentioned in the Bible, we are no where told NOT to celebrate them. This is important because the Bible is full of rules. God didn't leave anything to guesswork when laying out the laws for Israel. Birthdays were obviously a well-known custom at that time. If God was particular enough to dictate how the Israelites cut their hair, wore their clothes and cooked their meals, he would have made explicit a ban on birthdays.
- The Bible gives tacit consent for celebrating birthdays. Romans 14:5: "One [man] judges one day as above another; another [man] judges one day as all others; let each [man] be fully convinced in his own mind." And Colossians 2:16: "Therefore let no man judge YOU in eating and drinking or in respect of a festival or of an observance of the new moon or of a sabbath;" These Scriptures not only allow for individuals to choose which celebrations they will partake in, they make clear that no one has the right to dictate to another which celebrations they may partake in.
- The Bible does not need to tell us specifically that it's ok to celebrate birthdays. Do we have (or need) a Biblical command for everything that comes up in life? We are not commanded to commemorate wedding anniversaries, eat dessert, own pets or hold a checking account. Does not free will allow us to make decisions in regard to such matters?
- Whether or not the early Christians celebrated birthdays is irrelevant. We do not model our lives on what the early Christians did. Early Christians did not shave their beards. They did preach within Jewish synagogues. Just because something was or was not customary at that time has no bearing on its inherent rightness or wrongness.
- The Bible speaks poorly of other things that are allowable. Wearing make up, owning dogs, giving wedding gifts, haircuts and drinking are all associated in the Bible with tragic acts. Yet, none of these things are considered unacceptable for Christians. Why would birthdays not be held to the same standard?
- Other customs based on pagan tradition are allowable; wedding rings, wedding veils, piñatas, pot lucks, tombstones, wind chimes, breakfast cereal, neckties and kites to name a few. These things are no longer associated with the pagan customs that originated them-and neither are birthdays. No one today associates birthdays with paganism.
- Other customs with violent origins are allowable. Soccer originated with conquerors kicking around the severed heads of their enemies. The theater was grossly violent and often featured the tortured deaths of Christians. Today, soccer and the theater are different. The origins of these things were far more violent than the Biblical birthday beheadings. And their modern counterparts are more violent than modern birthdays. Yet, these things are considered acceptable for Christians. How much more so should birthday celebrations be.
- The good man Job commemorated the birthdays of his children. (Job 1:4,5; 3:1) Job was considered righteous. The only sin he was accused of was in thinking he was more righteous than God. Therefore, commemorating birthdays is not sinful.
- Life is a sacred gift from God and we should be thankful. God is obviously fond of regular commemoration. He commanded the memorial of the last supper to be commemorated. He also had ordered various celebrations throughout the year for the Israelites. We celebrate our marriages (another gift from God) yearly. No one likes a good party more than God. It is fitting to show our gratitude for his gift by celebrating it each year.
- Given the body of evidence above, salvation does not rest upon the decision to celebrate one's birthday. No one can say this better than Six of Nine, so I will repost what he said:
But what got my passions up, in opposition to the society, was that I realized that if A) birthdays aren't really a biblical matter at all, and B) we as Jehovah's Witnesses were going door to door offering people the only chance at real salvation....
then wtf was it ok for us to withold that salvation over something as non-biblical and trivial as birthdays??? The onus IS NOT on "worldly" people to see birthdays as "no big deal, just follow the 'faithful slave'", since the "faithful slave" doesn't have a logical coherent argument.
I looked around and thought "are we interested in saving lives, or not?" That's what it comes down to. JW's make a big deal about "stumbling". Well why don't they practice what they preach and stop "stumbling" worldly people away from Jehovah with their silly, non-biblical, contradicted by their own writings, birthday psuedo-doctrine?
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Turning in time?
by crazy2try ini have a problem.
my hubby and i are tying to fade out completely, but we ran into a snag.
my in-laws showed up with a stack of time slips and said that they will turn them in for us if we fill them out.
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bluecanary
Welcome to forum Jordan! It's been a while since we've had a JW apologist here so I'm happy to see you. If you have the inclination, I would love to see your thoughts on a thread I posted a while back: http://www.jehovahs-witness.net/watchtower/beliefs/181105/1/What-are-the-e2809cfruitse2809d-that-we-are-supposed-to-recognize
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Need help anti-witnessing!
by Robert7 inhello everyone, so my wife has a friend-of-a-friend who has been studying with the witnesses for a few months now.
she wants to present some information to dissuade her from studying further.
so i need some ammo!.
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Sociology of the Cult Family
by bluecanary inthis is the first draft of a project i'm working on for my sociology of the family class.
thought you guys might enjoy reading it.
i would like to credit quentin for the jc image.
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bluecanary
Thank you for your comments, BB.
Organ transplants were at one time a disfellowshipping offense. I did not distinguish that because (a) all the offences mentioned are equally subject to change and (b) that the Watchtower doesn't issue honorary reinstatements for people who only committed an act that is no longer considered a sin.
Yes, some people still speak to their disfellowshipped relatives, but they ignore the rules of the WTS to do so. "Necessary family business" is a rare occurance for adult relatives that do not share a home. And the WTS pushes shunning so hard, many members will not speak to DFed family even about necessary business. The ONLY Dub I knew that spoke to a DFed relative was reproved and forced to step down as an elder. Perhaps you come from a more liberal area than I did. But my paper is not about the individual consciences of Dubs. It's about the teachings and overall attitude they create.
Really BB? You didn't notice that older publications (prior to the 50s and 70s) aren't available on the watchtower CD? You missed the KM about not circulating recordings of older talks because people might be confused by "old light?" You haven't seen the numerous threads about JWs who believe that older publications have been altered by apostates? Just because some of the hard copies are still available doesn't mean they want people reading them.
The 75% not being aware of the Jesus/mediator situation is indeed guesswork on my part. That was based on information gleaned on this site and through speaking to JWs about it. The terms "probably about" indicate a guess. I would love to see a real poll on this though. Anyone have any suggestions on how to find a more accurate figure?
I did indeed generalize about paranoia. That is based on my experience and on information gleaned from others. It is also based on the paranoid ramblings of their own publications that encourage people to eschew anything touched by apostates, worry about demons and think of "worldly people" as inherently wicked and amoral.
The divorce statistic comes from jwfacts.com.
My professor has read it. He likes the style, but as BB brought out, he'd like to see more sources cited. We're going to discuss it more tomorrow.