Posts by monkeyman

11

A New Term

by monkeyman in

jw identify any who cease to attend meetings as those were stumbled fell away drifted away or not of our sort.. .

this is grossly unfair and blatantly untrue in most cases.

in my case, i have 2 family members that no longer attend because they were abused by several elders.

monkeyman

Bluecanary... "stumbled" still implies that the fault lies with you. It implies You were somehow incompetent, weak, ill footed, poorly balanced, not paying attention to where you were going, etc.

Does that apply to you?

Still ok with that term?

My point is that most people accept the terms they are labeled with. And that is because those are the only terms we are given. And then we wrongly accept the guilt that comes along with it. If that doesnt apply to you, then dont accept the guilt and the blame.

You are a victim. And OTHERS are to blame.

Doesnt that feel good?

16

Compare Bethel with the LDS HQ in Salt Lake City

by POs Son in

jw
friends

i have been to both, bethel (all 3 complexes: brooklyn, walkill, paterson plus the jersey city stanley theater) as a teenager, and to tour the lds (mormon) complex in salt lake city as an adult.

i did bethel as a "witness" child, and slc as a totally non-jw adult.

the lds complex seemed more open to the public, inviting and comfortable.

monkeyman

I’ve seen both and they were eerily similar. The people were all dressed up like CO’s and elders wives.

Men had suits and women wore long dresses. The buildings were more churchlike but the people were very similar.

I had business dealings with a woman in Utah. The AAA club will tell you that Utah is about 75% Mormon. That’s a crock. It’s more like 60% Mormon and 40% EX Mormon.

Ex Mormons are treated as disfellowshipped. So they basically have their own social/work system to survive in a Mormon world.

Interestingly, Utah has one of the highest suicide rates for teenagers in the country. I also saw an inordinate amount of Gothic teenagers.

There is similarity also in their culture because it is so strict and extremely conservative. They also have similarities in power hungry clergy types preying on the flock. (According to the ex Mormon I spoke with who gave her experience)

11

A New Term

by monkeyman in

jw identify any who cease to attend meetings as those were stumbled fell away drifted away or not of our sort.. .

this is grossly unfair and blatantly untrue in most cases.

in my case, i have 2 family members that no longer attend because they were abused by several elders.

monkeyman

JW identify any who cease to attend meetings as those were “stumbled” “fell away” “drifted away” or “not of our sort”.

This is grossly unfair and blatantly untrue in most cases.

In my case, I have 2 family members that no longer attend because they were “abused” by several elders. Without details, they were forced to comply with pet peeves of these elders that had nothing to do with Bible principles. It was strictly an abuse of power.

The final blow was when they were mocked from the platform as being “murmerers” and cast as the Bible character Korah when they were anything but. The emotional “abuse” became so bad the only resort to peace and well being was to quit going to the place they received the abuse. How Sad. For all the times elders are referred to as “a hiding place from the wind”…in this case and in many other cases, they ARE THE WIND.

Now here comes the evil part. The innocent victims are the ones labeled as being “stumbled” “drifted away” and “fell away”, as if they had anything to do with it. Sadly, these are the only terms JW are allowed to use with such ones. The truth is they don’t apply at all. These terms infer the guilt belongs with the wronged party instead of the wrongdoer (the elder).

So we are left without a proper term for someone who has been abused by the elders and no longer attends meetings just because such an event was never recorded in the Bible. JW would have us believe that if it isn’t in the Bible, it doesn’t exist. Not!

So here is a new term, “Elder Abuse”. I just invented it. There, now you have it, an appropriate and applicable term that we can use for victims who through no fault of their own, no longer attend meetings. They stay home to protect themselves from further emotional harm.

JW would have us believe that type of abuse doesn’t exist. Unfortunately, it does.

11

New Changes the WT Society should make next

by monkeyman in

ok, here are some things to think about for fun since they wont ever be enacted.

but its fun to fantasize.

please input your thoughts and suggestions!.

monkeyman

Ok, here are some things to think about for fun since they wont EVER be enacted. But its fun to fantasize. Please input your thoughts and suggestions!

1. Elders from now on will be elected by a majority vote of the congregation (as they used to be)

Wont this be fun!? This will eliminate the "good ol boyz club" Of course the GB will screw it up by mandating that you have to be in the congregation for at least a year and have an 8 hr 6 wk avg in field service to vote. Elders voted for would have to have an 8 hr six week avg. But thats ok. Field service will get an amazing boost in numbers. Can u imagine how many elders will quake in their boots about being eliminated from their position because of having to be answerable to the cong? How sweet. No longer will they have carte blanche in dealing with the congregation without retribution.

2. Judicial committees will now have a judge and jury of 6. Defendents will also be allowed to have a representative, lawyer. Even if the GB designates the Judge from local congregations, it will hold the elders prosecuting the case accountable for their actions. Protocol would have to be enacted to prevent goofy things taking place during a judicial hearing. The jury would be made up of 6 members of the congregation. Certain qualfications would be made to participate on a jury, but that's ok.

Anyway, with these things enacted, the friends will he happy with the elders and unafraid of judicial committees.

Just think?

Your thoughts?

298

Why is the US so afraid of Social Health Care?

by eyeslice in

jw
friends

i just don't get why the us is so afraid of social health care, and is so opposed to the canadian and british models.

the plain fact is that there are far more americans without access to health care than the combined populations of sweden, norway, denmark and finland.. a measure of the maturity of any society has to be how it sees fit to re-apportion its wealth.. we are quick to criticise african leaders who line their own pockets but leave the masses in poverty but cannot see that blindly following capitalist principles is much the same.

if we live in a wealthy society then part of that wealth has to be put back into society as a whole.. .

monkeyman

beksbks Dont get me wrong, I'm not a lover of insurance companies and I'm not really sure of a solution. But you cant say there is not enough competition out there among insurance companies. There's hundreds of them. And they have to make a profit or die as some do. The government is not fair competition since they dont have to make a profit. They will just print more money or generate more funds through taxation or some other government means.

If you were in business, any business, would you like the government as your competition? I dont think so.

Also, as far as regulations go, insurance is one of the most regulated industries in the US. It is done through each state.

I was impressed with the group that I posted their website for since they have addressed some of the issues that are not being addressed by current insurance companies. Here are some of them...

1. Pre existing conditions - insurance companies in some states (not all) dont have to take them. This is unfair to people who are sick. The way they deal with it is a managed care system. It works. (No need for government interference here)

2. Customer compliance - its known that one of the biggest expenses for insurers is patient non compliance. Meaning, people with high blood pressure dont take their meds, or obese people arent addressing their weight problem, or smokers wont quit. This group addresses that too. They call people once a month to make sure they are taking their meds properly. They give them FREE weight loss programs and smoking cessation devices. If people are obstinate and dont make any effort to comply, they can LOSE their benefits.

3. Digitizing medical records- the Obama adm. has recently discovered one other major expense for insurance companies is paying for medical records to be copied and mailed to them. Doctors are paid at least $75 every time a person requests insurance. This is ridiculous in our high tech era when records can be digitized and emailed at virtually no cost. These guys are already doing that.

4. Managing costs - many times one blood draw is taken but seven or eight tests are done. Many times the draw, even tho it was done once it is charged seven or eight times to inflate the bill. Also, tests like MRI or PET scans are never really shopped around. The patient just goes wherever the doctor says to go. This group shops around and will send you to the place that will do it for the best price. You may like a particular doctor over another, but an MRI is an MRI no matter where you go. These guys are doing that too.

In some states, like Massachusetts, health insurance is mandatory. It's also guaranteed issued. Has that solved the problem? NO. 40% of the people there are still uninsured just like the rest of the country. WHY? People Cant afford it. Then they have to pay a fine every year for not having it. Not a very good solution in my opinion.

298

Why is the US so afraid of Social Health Care?

by eyeslice in

jw
friends

i just don't get why the us is so afraid of social health care, and is so opposed to the canadian and british models.

the plain fact is that there are far more americans without access to health care than the combined populations of sweden, norway, denmark and finland.. a measure of the maturity of any society has to be how it sees fit to re-apportion its wealth.. we are quick to criticise african leaders who line their own pockets but leave the masses in poverty but cannot see that blindly following capitalist principles is much the same.

if we live in a wealthy society then part of that wealth has to be put back into society as a whole.. .

monkeyman

There is a national health plan (Major medical) available in the US already that is relatively inexpensive and accepts and covers all pre existing conditions. Unfortunately, many just aren't aware it exists.

Here's their website.

http://www.greencrossmanagedhealth.com/

They've been in existence for 10 yrs. I've enrolled people in it for the last 2 1/2 yrs and they are happy with it.

If anyone is in need, I can get you pricing on it. Just email me at [email protected]

71

I can't take this pain anymore...my life at dead end

by JustHuman14 in

my life has reached to a dead end...i'm stuck and there is no way out.

i was inactive for 6 years and i'm disfellowshiped for the past 3. i would never think that my life would have been in this terrible mess.. .

i wasn't planned to be disfellowshiped by my "wife" turned me in to the elders for apostasy 2 times!!!

monkeyman

Flipper- I dont think you read my post. You just saw it was me and went to the angry, bitter, I-hate-the- world, woe is me card. (Maybe the font was too small!)

You TOTALLY missed the point, TOTALLY got the wrong idea and TOTALLY drew the wrong conclusion. BUt that's ok. You're entitled to your opinion. You make it sound like I'm not entitled to mine.

I've read only two of your posts and both of them are angry, vindictive, profane laced, and mean spirited. I'd like to hear from a few other people first to know what kind of site this is.

BTW how do your intend to help JustHuman? By teaching him to be just as angry, vindictive, and hateful as you? Or by telling him that he did the right thing and for the rest of the world to go screw itself? JustHuman has already made his bed. I hope to help those who haven't yet acted on your bad advice.

71

I can't take this pain anymore...my life at dead end

by JustHuman14 in

my life has reached to a dead end...i'm stuck and there is no way out.

i was inactive for 6 years and i'm disfellowshiped for the past 3. i would never think that my life would have been in this terrible mess.. .

i wasn't planned to be disfellowshiped by my "wife" turned me in to the elders for apostasy 2 times!!!

monkeyman

( Sorry for the delay in responding. I wrote a lengthy response, did a spell check and poof! It disappeared. So I had to rewrite it. I won’t do that again.)

Wow! I didn’t even think anyone would read this. Wrong! But that's good.

First,let me say I don’t think anyone who knows me has EVER thought me to be brutal. But I will admit, my writing style might convey the wrong emotion. Don’t forget, posts, email, and blogs, are devoid of emotion. Actually, when speaking, I try to be funny and sarcastic, not brutal. But that doesn’t always come through when I write. So Mr. Flipper….lighten up already. Sheesh. Actually, I read my post 3 times before I submitted it and I still don’t think that it warranted your profanity and name calling. (You may want to review rules # 1 and 3 of the posting rules) (See there I’m trying to be funny) BTW if this is an anti JW forum, let me know. I'll leave. I thought it was a forum where JW could write and communicate and be truthful without the fear of Big Brother making judgement.

Ok, so let me respond….

First of all, let me just say that I am no stranger to “unjust treatment”. Neither is my family. In fact it may be even worse that JustHuman’s. So don’t think I’m not sympathetic. I am hugely sympathetic. What bothers me is when people make things worse for themselves by doing stupid things.. That’s what I felt JustHuman did.

Now for all of you who just want to hold his hand and cry “foul” and feel sorry for him, go ahead. Truth is, it won’t change anything.

My words are for people out there who are contemplating doing (something stupid) things and haven’t done them yet. Consider what I’m saying and you might save yourselves a lot of unnecessary grief.

Case in point………….I have a dear friend (JW) who was married for 25 yrs and had 3 teen age boys. For some reason, he began to develop an issue with wearing a beard.

(Please don’t post any responses to how stupid the beard issue is. The point is, if you’re one of JW’s, sporting a beard can be an issue especially if you hold and responsible position.)

Anyway, he started sporting a beard. Why? I know now after having several long heartfelt conversations with him and it had to deal with something psychological in his past. (See Flipper, I am empathetic) But his peers weren’t going to do that. They were horrified. His wife was deeply embarrassed and his teenage boys were mortified sitting next to him at the meeting.

The result? Marriage problems escalated ending in divorce and his sons nearly disowned him.

My point here is this. Was it absolutely necessary to put the beard issue out there to prove a point? Granted there were other factors in his marriage but things like this can be the straw that broke the camel’s back. What he could have done is sought some professional counseling to deal with things that really mattered (marriage and childhood upbringing) that were causing him emotional upheaval, and the other things (issue with beard) would likely come to terms with. He refused.

So my advice to JustHuman is this. Go find a religion/community that is all forgiving and supportive and enjoy the rest of your life.

If your one of JW’s, realize the community you’re already in. It is a right wing, black and white, ultra-conservative, by-the-book, religion that also happens to teach the truth about the Bible. It is a group that appeals to and rewards right wing, ultra-conservative, black and white type people. If you an ultra- liberal, left wing thinker, you are not going to enjoy this group outside of the fact that it teaches truthful Bible doctrine. Sadly, t he loving, liberal, side of Jesus’ teaching is not yet that apparent. I believe it will be.

When? I don’t know. But I don’t think its worth throwing it all away for something trivial.

71

I can't take this pain anymore...my life at dead end

by JustHuman14 in

my life has reached to a dead end...i'm stuck and there is no way out.

i was inactive for 6 years and i'm disfellowshiped for the past 3. i would never think that my life would have been in this terrible mess.. .

i wasn't planned to be disfellowshiped by my "wife" turned me in to the elders for apostasy 2 times!!!

monkeyman

71

I can't take this pain anymore...my life at dead end

by JustHuman14 in

my life has reached to a dead end...i'm stuck and there is no way out.

i was inactive for 6 years and i'm disfellowshiped for the past 3. i would never think that my life would have been in this terrible mess.. .

i wasn't planned to be disfellowshiped by my "wife" turned me in to the elders for apostasy 2 times!!!

monkeyman

Let me get this straight............................... You put your marraige and family thru this turmoil and sacrificed your relationships with all your friends because you have a problem with the understanding of the Society's explaination of 607 BCE???

If you have put your own need to be right over the love of family and friends, then arrogance may be the real problem.

The truth is you dont really know for a fact about your own beliefs about things like what happened in 607 BCE. You merely have a different opinion, which is in reality, ok. Except for being part of a conservative organization like Jehovah's Witnesses.

So, why not hold your opinions in check, until you really know for a fact, keep your family and friends relationship, and enjoy the rest of your life?

Face it, if you are single and have no family ties, spout off your own opinions and live like a hermit wih your own beliefs set on high.

But if you are married and have a family and friends that you differ with, then put your opinions on the back burner, enjoy your marraige and family now while you can, and when the time comes, you can prove you're right.