PSacramento

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Posts by PSacramento

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  302

  TEC Documentary hypothesis

  by mP in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  continuing on our mini discussing at.

  http://jehovahs-witness.net/watchtower/beliefs/246435/8/greatest-show-on-earth#4664173.

  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/documentary_hypothesis.

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  PSacramento

  SHOW ME A SCRIPTURE WITH QUOTES WHERE JESUS CONDEMNS RAPE, PEDOPHILIA OR SLAVERY.

  There is no explicit or direct condemnation of MANY things, things that are covered quite logically in this/these commandment(s):

  Love your neighbour as yourself ( to be parallelled with the Good Samaritan prabale to make clear who is our neighbour).

  43 “You have heard that it was said, ‘ You shall love your neighbor and hate your enemy.’ 44 But I say to you, love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you, 45 so that you may be sons of your Father who is in heaven; for He causes His sun to rise on the evil and the good, and sends rain on the righteous and the unrighteous. 46 For if you love those who love you, what reward do you have? Do not even the tax collectors do the same? 47 If you greet only your brothers, what more are you doing than others? Do not even the Gentiles do the same? 48 Therefore you are to be perfect, as your heavenly Father is perfect.

  IT is pretty hard to take those an feel that somehow rape, pedophila and slavery are permitted.

  THAT said, it is clear that those things went on and still do go on.

  Slavery was a far more complex issue since the whoel of the Roman empire ( and before that) was based on a "slave" economy and to openly preach that slavery was wrong would be viewed as inciting rebellion and we all know how well that works in the Roman empire.

  It is clear, IMO, that of the laws given many were casual laws and many,perhaos most, were accomodationalist and Christ's commandements seem to be no different.

  In short, He knew who he was dealing with.
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  128

  Jesus and the Mosaic Law...

  by mP in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  ive had many chats with tec and shes always fun but i must disagree with her angle on jesus and the mosaic law.

  she always claims that jesus repealed the law.

  ive asked for many times and she has yet to give the exact quote.. perhaps the most damning scripture for tec and friends is mat 5:18 where jesus unequivacably says the laws is perfect and will last forever.

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  PSacramento

  The Law of ther Torah is a "complex" one because it was given to a Theocratical nation to set it apart from its neighbours BUT it was also given for other reasons as well.

  There are cermonial laws, there are laws only for the priestly class, there are causal laws (If someone does this, then...) which are NOT Laws od permission but Laws that state punishment and things of that nature for offenses ( much like the Laws we have now).

  The orginal "big 10" we expaned upon when the people showed they need more laws and some statutes were even given that were pusposely bad ( as Per Ezekiel) while other laws may have been added by scribes ( As per Jeremiah).

  It is not always clear how Jesus viewed ALL the Laws, he certainly appended to them and even singled out those that were given By Moses as opposed to, persumably, directly from God.

  It seems that at times Jesus takes a common law, like treat youe neighbout like you would yourself, a uses it as a starting point to go beyond what was written, while other times, as in the case of divorce, makes it clear that the Laws ( at least the divorce one) was an accomdationalist one.
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  128

  Jesus and the Mosaic Law...

  by mP in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  ive had many chats with tec and shes always fun but i must disagree with her angle on jesus and the mosaic law.

  she always claims that jesus repealed the law.

  ive asked for many times and she has yet to give the exact quote.. perhaps the most damning scripture for tec and friends is mat 5:18 where jesus unequivacably says the laws is perfect and will last forever.

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  PSacramento

  Jesus did not abolish the Law, yet He claimed to fullfill it.

  Jesus did not abolish the Law, yet He "cleared" up HOW the Law was being kept for "it's own sake" instead of the sake of Israel.
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  24

  Depressing Census Statistics on Religion

  by jwfacts in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  ... depressing if you are the governing body that is.. the australian census figures from 2011 are available.

  this is taken every 5 years, and i have been doing a comparison over the last 15 year period.

  for 2001 and 2006 the number of jw's fell in australia, but this time it has risen, which jws may find encouraging.

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  PSacramento

  How does that graph work?

  The descrepencies in regards to CHristianity increase and the RC for example.

  Is it odd that those professing to notbe part of any religion and the pentacostals have the greatest increase?
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  273

  greatest show on earth

  by unstopableravens in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  i wanted to start this thread two weeks ago,however i have had alot going on with wifey and the elders,that is another thread.

  to be honest my mind has been on my family.

  i will be able to discuss the book tommorow morning.

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  PSacramento

  The Jews would have read much of Genesis very differently than the Biblical literalist today.

  Indeed, probably because it was written by them, for them and within THEIR cultural context.

  To take an ancient text literally means to take it as its literary genre demands.
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  273

  greatest show on earth

  by unstopableravens in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  i wanted to start this thread two weeks ago,however i have had alot going on with wifey and the elders,that is another thread.

  to be honest my mind has been on my family.

  i will be able to discuss the book tommorow morning.

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  PSacramento

  I tend to agree with most of what polkinghorne says.

  Wright is one of my favorit NT scholars.

  Biologos is one of my favotite sites.
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  302

  TEC Documentary hypothesis

  by mP in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  continuing on our mini discussing at.

  http://jehovahs-witness.net/watchtower/beliefs/246435/8/greatest-show-on-earth#4664173.

  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/documentary_hypothesis.

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  PSacramento

  Oh I don't doubt that Mr. Schweitzer saw it that way, I just dont' agree with that view.
• 
  302

  TEC Documentary hypothesis

  by mP in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  continuing on our mini discussing at.

  http://jehovahs-witness.net/watchtower/beliefs/246435/8/greatest-show-on-earth#4664173.

  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/documentary_hypothesis.

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  PSacramento

  Albert Schweitzer in his study of the life of Jesus, pointed out that Jesus prophesied persecution for his followers when they went out preaching. It didn't happen that first time. First failed prophecy. Jesus may certainly have been expecting it, knowing the ancient prophecies regarding the coming messiah. Schweitzer suggested Jesus had got himself in a prophetical hole and his only way out was to antagonize his opponents and sacrifice himself.

  I don't think there is anything in the passage ( I assume you mean Matthew 10) that makes it explicit that those things would happen to them at that time.

  No sure why He interpreted that way.

  Luke 10 parallels Matt 10 and adds the happy results.
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  302

  TEC Documentary hypothesis

  by mP in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  continuing on our mini discussing at.

  http://jehovahs-witness.net/watchtower/beliefs/246435/8/greatest-show-on-earth#4664173.

  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/documentary_hypothesis.

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  PSacramento

  It is important to understand that the whole notion of taking ALL the bible as literal and concrete is a very "modern" thing based on the fundamentalist view point.

  That was not the case with the early history of the church or even the reformation.

  Sure some did, but others didn't.

  The issue of loving Christ more than your parents is kind of complex one BUT, IMO, is ade clear in regards to the context of the whole message:

  CHrist's followers ( apostles and their soon to be follwers) would be betrayed and persecuted ( to varying degrees), family, inculding parents, would turn on them. Christ was showing that to love unrighteousness is not correct BUT itis important to understand that he was NOT turning people against their familes, their familes would be the ones to turn of them and, in the jewish context of how family was viewed, I don't think we can view that Christ was saying to not have any love what so ever for parents, but to recognize that if someone does wrong, even a parent, we must not accept that.

  IMO of course.
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  42

  Is God's Name Yahweh or Jehovah?

  by Soldier77 in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  http://www.catholic.com/quickquestions/is-gods-name-yahweh-or-jehovah.

  subject title refers to the link that i found in another thread, somewhat buried in text, but i thought it deserved to be highlighted.

  take the time to read it if you can and just sit and think about it for a second, think about all of the hate and disgust jw's have for the cc and just let that truth settle in.. amazing really.

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  PSacramento

  IMO, when Moses asked God for His name and God said, I AM THAT I AM, it sounds like a "It's enough that I AM, I don't need no stinkin name" type of answer.

  For a Christian, that Our Lord taught Us to pray to God and call him "Our Father" is more than enough.

  That, when we allow the HS to come into us and we become one with Christ, that we will be able to call Our Father, Abba, that is quite something !