Jesus and the Mosaic Law...

by mP 128 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

• 

  mP

  Ive had many chats with TEC and shes always fun but i must disagree with her angle on Jesus and the Mosaic Law. She always claims that Jesus repealed the law. Ive asked for many times and she has yet to give the exact quote.

  Perhaps the most damning scripture for TEC and friends is Mat 5:18 where Jesus unequivacably says the laws is perfect and will last forever. In the interest of transparency iam going to quote the entire section. I would appreciate if TEC you do the same, when you say something supports your point of view instead of story telling.

  http://www.jw.org/en/publications/bible/matthew/5

  17/ Do not think I came to destroy the Law or the Prophets. I came, not to destroy, but to fulfill;

  18/ for truly I say to ? YOU ? that sooner would heaven and earth pass away than for one smallest letter or one particle of a letter to pass away from the Law by any means and not all things take place.

  19/ Whoever, therefore, breaks one of these least commandments and teaches mankind to that effect, he will be called ‘least’ in relation to the kingdom of the heavens. As for anyone who does them and teaches them, this one will be called ‘great’ in relation to the kingdom of the heavens. 2

  In 17 Jesus affirms that he did not come to destroy or cancel the law. Its impossible for anyone to fulfil a law that makes no sense. How can any fulfil the American Constitiution ? Nobody can fulfill a law but you can fulfill prophecy and thats what Jesus is alluding to. We can discuss that in another thread becaues its qutie intersting. Whether Jesus did or did not fulfill prophecy does not change the fact that he never said the old law was finished or gone and replace.

  In 18, he says that the laws will last forever, well at least longer than the Earth which is supposed to last Billions of years more which for the purposes of our discussion is forever. Its madness to think one day he said Mat 5:18 and had that recorded and then the ntext day said sometjing completel y the op;osite. If he really had an agenda to replace the law of Moses theres no need to make the statements of Mat 5:17-19.

  The did however try and point out some important laws which he thought required mentioning. Its that simple.

  Of course if im wrong show me plain and simple where in the Bible with a quote.
• 

  Larsinger58

  Jesus meant the Law Code, the things that would be fulfilled by him as part of God's plan. For example:

  Passover. Jesus is the passover lamb who must be sacrificed at the ninth hour when the lambs are killed. Indeed, Jesus was killed at the ninth hour as part of the law's fulfillment.

  The Sabbath. Of course, Jesus fulfills the sabbath by becoming king for 1000 years as part of the 7th day of a 7000-year long creative day.

  The wave offerings. There are two wave offerings, representing the first and second coming of Christ. Of note, the first wave offering of first fruits is without leaven, meaning Jesus becomes flesh in a perfect body. The second wave offering is a loaf from the house that is baked with leaven, simply meaning Jesus' body at the 2nd coming is an imperfect one. Jesus arrives the first time to become a sacrifice, the second to become a king-priest.

  So in these ways, Jesus fulfills all these things of the Law Code and thus the significance of these things last forever.
• 

  Apognophos

  And verse 18 is saying "Heaven and earth will cease to exist before one letter of the Law can pass away without being fulfilled". It's sort of a triple clause so it's a bit confusing, but Jesus is saying that the Law would be totally fulfilled before any of it could "pass away".
• 

  Satanus

  Are other translations worded the same way?

  S
• 

  leaving_quietly

  "Repealed" is probably the wrong word. "Released", yes. Jesus released us from the Law and became a curse himself.

  Gal 3:13,14: "Christ by purchase released us from the curse of the Law by becoming a curse instead of us, because it is written: “Accursed is every man hanged upon a stake.” 14?The purpose was that the blessing of Abraham might come to be by means of Jesus Christ for the nations, that we might receive the promised spirit through our faith."
• 

  mP

  LeavingQuietly

  Repealed" is probably the wrong word. "Released", yes. Jesus released us from the Law and became a curse himself.

  Gal 3:13,14: "Christ by purchase released us from the curse of the Law by becoming a curse instead of us, because it is written: “Accursed is every man hanged upon a stake.” 14?The purpose was that the blessing of Abraham might come to be by means of Jesus Christ for the nations, that we might receive the promised spirit through our faith."

  mP:

  First of all Galatians is definitely not Jesus its Paul. Jesus as shown in my above quotes and in numerous other places in the gospels always loved and said the Mosaid Law was perfect and would last forever. There are no quotes in the Bible that hint at him saying the opposite

  Ultimately why are you taking the word of a mere mortal above the countless affirmations from Jesus himself, a God ?

  Considering how important this should be for all, how could jesus forget to say the law of Moses is over ? If he sai d and the gospel authors forgot to write it down, what does that say about their records ?
• 

  mP

  Satanus:

  Are other translations worded the same way?

  mP:

  Pretty much. Naturally they use slightly different wording but the ultimate meaning is clear. Jesus said Moses law was perfect and would last forever. No where does anything that Jesus say approach cancelling the law. Thats one of the big lies that all xians claim. Naturally if you ask them to provide a single scripture, they never can, they need to always tell you a story.
• 

  Satanus

  For people following jesus, that about closes the case. They need to convert to judaism and follow all 300 some odd laws. If they prefer to follow paul, well, thats another story. Thats 'christianity', at the present moment, basically.

  S
• 

  mP

  Satanus:
  You are very correct, xians have perpetuated one big lie about the law of Moses. Personally i think the law itself is the fraud as well. I mean hoenstly if one reads the laws how can they say they are perfect and from a loving grand god or father. They sound more like laws of a tyrant and evil leader.
• 

  TD

  Jesus also said that:

  "Whoever then annuls one of the least of these commandments, and teaches others to do the same, shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven; but whoever keeps and teaches them, he shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven."

  He told his (ostensibly future) disciples that:

  "...pray that your flight will not be in the winter, or on a Sabbath."

  ..which clearly indicates and expectation that Sabbath would continue to be kept.

  He exhibited a knowledge of both written and oral law and appeared to accept tenets of the latter (e.g. pikuach nephesh) as binding.

  I'm not pointing this out because I think Christians should follow the Law. It's just that the Jewishness of Jesus is hard to deny