why were we so suprised people did not join in droves!
what an awful message we shared......
It's not in the least bit simple. What does "fixed" mean? Everyone has the same amount of money? Of skills? Of opportunity? Of quality of life? We always agree and never argue? Everyone always has what they want? Everyone always has what they need?
I don't know, you tell me.
WHat do YOU think it means? or do you think it doesn'tmean anything because we are just fine?
why were we so suprised people did not join in droves!
what an awful message we shared......
i got a whiff of that too.
now I will step back again and watch
So, my view that all humans need to be fixed because we are not living up to our potential and my belief that this fix is only available from God is racist and/or homophobic?
Is that what you two are suggesting?
We are all equal and ALL broken, including believers of course. I am pretty sure that I made that clear when I said no one is better than anyone else.
Being a CHristian is accepting that and the knowledge that only God through Christ can Fix that.
It doesn't mean you ARE fixed or superiour to anyone else, it means you have accepted that you need fixing and God is the fixer.
why were we so suprised people did not join in droves!
what an awful message we shared......
Interesting how I view what? People or your statements? And what do you mean by "fixing"? Social engineering? Genetic engineering? Magical "you're all better now"? What does "fixed" even mean?
Interestingh ow you viewed my statement.
Answering a question with a question isn't an answer.
I asked if you think that the human race needs fixing or if it is fine the way it is?
SImple question, is the human race as it is now, how it acts and behaves to one another and the planet just fine of does it need to chaneg for the better ( fix)?
why were we so suprised people did not join in droves!
what an awful message we shared......
Interesting how you viewed it that way.
DO you think the human race is fine the way it is? no need of fixing?
1.jw's persuade themselves that errors, flip-flops, "corrections" and "adjustments" reflect jehovah's plan rather than the stupidity of men who are just guessing!!.
2.you can't put a rhinoceros in a shoebox.
it won't fit.
No. 3 is a bit tricky dude...
If Love is that subjective then "higest values" ( whatever that may mean to any given person) is perhaps even more so.
why were we so suprised people did not join in droves!
what an awful message we shared......
I am struggling to reconcile how you can, on the one hand, claim equality yet claim I am broken.
I think we are equal as humans, yes of course.
Do I think you are broken in regards to beaing a part from God? Yes I do.
Does that make you less human? ABSOLUTELY NOT !!!
I don't think that YOU think you are "broken" though, do you?
why were we so suprised people did not join in droves!
what an awful message we shared......
Fully human AS GOD INTENDED.
If you beleive in the Fall then you understand what I mean.
If you don't, no worries, though I think we all admit that we hope for a time when we humans are better than we are now.
I don't think that anyone here thiks humans have reached their FULL potential, have we?
why were we so suprised people did not join in droves!
what an awful message we shared......
You implied that without your version of God, someone isn't fully human.
Fully human As God intended, for us all.
It was poorly worded, I apologize because I didn't mean to imply that.
If one believes we are created in God's image and that "image" was damaged by the Fall, then to be "whole again", what is broken must be fixed and that is where CHrist comes in ( for a Christian).
DO I hole those the do NOT believe in this as less human or inferior? No ! Absolutley not.
We are ALL God's Children and He wants Us all in His loving embrace, in fellowship with Him through Christ.
The choice is, as always, ours.
why were we so suprised people did not join in droves!
what an awful message we shared......
So which is it?
Where in what I posted did I say a CHristian is Better than anyone else?
Granted it seems to imply that and I apologise for the wording if it went in that direction.
What I was trying to convey is what the ideal goal for a Christian is.
A Christian trying to be a better person because of Gods love for him, (not to earn Gods love) is no better than anyone else that is trying to be a better person for their own reasons.
God's gift of Grace is given to us all, as we are NOW.
That when a person recieves this gift and understands the depth of God's love for them, they choose to want to express their love in "other-centred" love, I think is a good thing.
AGain, I apoligize of the wording I used came off as self-righteous and implying some sort of superiority of Christians, it was not my intent.
It can be argued that understanding that one needs Christ in their lives to help them be better than they are (not better than anyone else) is quite far from arrogance and self-righteousness and is indeed quite humbling.
why were we so suprised people did not join in droves!
what an awful message we shared......
First, it's not necessarily directed at just you though the Pelagian theology you use comes accross to me and (I guess) to cofty that way
Pelagiius beleived that a Christian should be og high morals and uncompromising , even to the death and Augustine disagreed.
I agree with AUgustine that the CHurch is a hospital for sinners and not a museum of saints.
That said, that a Christian shoul try to be better than He was in behaviour and in thought is, to me, clear in the teachings of Christ and the apostles.
Sure we fail and we have to accept that in ourselves and each other, but we should still strive to do better, not because if any moral law or any love, but because of God's love for us through Christ.
