Posts by jgnat

4

cleaning out my closet

by Red in

jw
friends

no, i'm not singing an eminem song...i actually did clean out my closet this weekend and came across all my old jw books.

when i left the org 2 years ago i bought everything i could get my hands on, and read everything that was considered "apostate" literature.

but there is this one called "the report"... i can't remember how or who i bought it from-- all i remember is that i had a very hard time understanding it.

I was going to find a nice picture of a white horse, but I gave up. Remind me to never, never, never do a google with "White Horse" and "King of the North" in the search line. Boy, there are some real kooks out there.

13

How to help my son escape

by rebel in

the quote below was on another thread but i was afraid it would get lost.. "as a side note - if anyone can help me and tell me how to broach the subject of my drifting away to my youngest son, i would be so grateful.. what do i tell him?

he asks why i don't go to meetings any more.

he is so concerned and thinks i am in danger of dying at armageddon.

jgnat

This link might help.

http://www.freeminds.org/psych/exithelp.htm

I find talking to a JW who is devoted to the WTS to be a delicate balancing act. The WTS does not respect free will, and uses many coercive methods to gather people in and keep them in. You, by example, must behave very differently. Respect your son's decision on how he choses to live his life. Present other ideas, but do not be insistent that he believe as you do. Demonstrate love and acceptance for him always.

...and to allay his fears, regularly reinforce with him that you love Jehovah, you know he loves Jehovah deeply, and you will never leave him or forsake him. In time, you may be able to explain that your love DOES NOT extend to the human-run organization of the Watchtower Bible and Tract Society.

55

Comments You Will Not Hear at the 3-16-03 WT Study

by blondie in

comments you will not hear at the 3-16-03 wt study

february 1, 2003.

"have love among yourselves".

jgnat

Happyman – this may be an exercise in futility, but I thought I would respond to your last question to blondie. Your question,

I must ask you why you don’t take up my points, instead of attack me for being here?

I went back through this thread and tried to find your points. Here is my summary.

You like the article about love, and consider it a moderate stand by the society.
You think that Blondie’s claim that there is a “lack of love” in the society to be harsh.
If there is a lack of love, you blame individual members of the society, not the “loving” leadership.
You maintain that, as imperfect as the leadership is, they are still better than the “world”

Blondie responded by.

Explaining that the WT policies themselves create an unloving organization.
Giving examples from her own experience where leadership has been unloving.
Suggests that your loyalty to the GB is not reciprocated, as you would be unceremoniously kicked out if they knew how actively you have searched the internet for the “truth”

Yes, I don’t follow men, I do what I find in the bible, try to show love to every man, and most to this how have been beaten and are wounded, or if you want on the JW backyard.

Happyman, to my outsider eyes, you are seriously conflicted. You have become more critical of the society since your own son was DF’d, yet you still defend the leadership. You are trying to be a good Christian by following the bible. That behavior, plus your unrestrained use of the Internet, makes you a bad Witness. Can you see how the WT policies actually help create unloving people?

12

Breastfeeding...Somtething to Make You Giggle !!

by dottie in

i recieved this as an email...i thought it too good to not share.... a woman and a baby were in the doctor's examining room, waiting for the.

doctor to come in.

the doctor arrived, examined the baby, checked his.

jgnat

My most embarrassing story to date has to do with my granddaughter and breastfeeding and milk (or the lack of it). My daughter comes from a long line of great milkers. My mom breast fed all her kids, when bottles were the rage. I continued the tradition, and breast fed both my children for a full year each. I am still getting used to this next generation of milkers who breast feed right up to kindergarten. Now, me, I am ready to quit when the kid can yell "I want Boobie!" and starts undoing buttons at the mall (this happened to my sister).

Now to the story. As a bit of background, my two year old granndaughter, Naomi, is still breastfeeding. My daughter stayed with me for a few months last year, and it was a real treat to get better acquainted with Naomi. One night my daughter was not feeling well at all. By 11:00 in the evening, she was worried enough that she wanted to get checked out. She asked me to watch Naomi (already fast asleep) and headed for the local hospital emergency. All was fine until midnight, when Naomi woke up and found out her mommy was not at her side. I comforted her the best I could, and after thirty minutes she finally drifted off in to a fitful sleep. Each time I tried to rise to my own bed, however, Naomi woke. So she and I slept on the narrow bed that night. Until 3:00 AM. Sleepily, Naomi started to grope for the breast. She groped for the buttons on my nightie, she tried pulling up the hem. I did my best to fend her off, but she was a very determined two year old. What was I do do? Wake her and tell her mommy's not home and the store is closed? Naomi and I wrestled for what seemed forever.

To my relief, my daughter arrived soon after. And my daughter was OK. "What a waste of a night," she said. "Not really," I replied, "You found peace of mind."

55

Comments You Will Not Hear at the 3-16-03 WT Study

by blondie in

comments you will not hear at the 3-16-03 wt study

february 1, 2003.

"have love among yourselves".

jgnat

Here are some more thoughts I had overnight. Though there may be individual Witnesses that are loving by nature, it has been my experience that the organization does not foster or encourage that love. Sinners might as well be lepers. The socially inept might as well be lepers. As in times of old, they are cast from the camp until they can prove themselves clean.

WT Study March 16 Have Love Among Yourselves from WT Feb 1, 2003 Can You be Happy and Secure in Your Work?

...and how do we show love to our weak brother? We offer him another book study! Woo Hoo! Blondie is absolutely right. In the WT world, love is a completed time card.

I wonder what other examples of brotherly love the bible can offer? Off the top of my head, stories of the Prodigal Son, The Good Samaritan, the First Century Christians, and serving the Widows, come to mind. In those instances, were book studies offered, or did the early Christians squander their time on more mundane activities? Let’s take a look:

The father gathered up his lost son in an embrace, kissed him, forgave him, clothed him, and fed him. (Luke 15:21-25)

The early Christians visited each other in their homes, eating together, praying together, sharing what they had with each other. (Acts 2:42-47)

The Samaritan bound up the injured man's wounds, took care of him, and gave funds towards his care (Luke 10:33-36)

Godly men were appointed to provide food and wait tables for the widows (Acts 6:1-5)

Neighbours A saw a family down in their luck and invited them over for a home-cooked meal, slipped them a little cash to tide them over, prayed with them, hugged them, and told them they are only a phone call away.

Neighbours B did not notice. They were working their assigned route that weekend, and had no time to waste on gossiping with neighbours. The family persisted, however, and phoned the local congregation for help. The elders, trained in loving provision, assigned Neighbour B to visit with the book study, Draw Closer to Jehovah. They did not stay long, however, because the house was cold and dark. The family did not even offer coffee. Also, the husband was very rude and said a bad word as he showed them to the door. Mr. and Mrs. B congratulated each other on Jehovah’s provision that had spared them a fate as cruel as this poor worldly family.

55

Comments You Will Not Hear at the 3-16-03 WT Study

by blondie in

comments you will not hear at the 3-16-03 wt study

february 1, 2003.

"have love among yourselves".

jgnat

A post script on the muddy lake analogy.

para. 18 The woman who loses the coin knows that the situation is challenging but not hopeless. Had the coin been dropped in a large, bushy field or in a deep, muddy lake, she probably would have given it up as lost beyond recovery.

Really? What of Matthew 13:44-46?

The kingdom of heaven is like unto a treasure hidden in the field; which a man found, and hid; and in his joy he goeth and selleth all that he hath, and buyeth that field. Again, the kingdom of heaven is like unto a man that is a merchant seeking goodly pearls: and having found one pearl of great price, he went and sold all that he had, and bought it. Matthew 13:44-46 (ASV)

Every one is of value, and a treasure to Jehovah.

http://www.larchecanada.org/frset1c.html

28

I FOUND A JOB!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

by Jesika in

jw
friends

well, the search is finally over, i found a job.

i am working for a promotional advertising company, and they are hired by other companies like--crayola, harley davidson, bed bath and beyond, disney, etc to promote new products that will be coming out.

so, someone at my level in the company, goes to area businesses and shows them to people and they can buy them at about 80% off what the product will retail for when it hits the stores.

jgnat

Great news, Jesika! You go for it.

162

What Would A Jehovah's Witness Romance Novel Be Like?

by minimus in

jw
friends

i was reading in the religion page of the newspaper today that the mormons are enjoying romance novels in which descriptions of the characters' sex lives are limited to little more the first kiss--- that could happen after they are engaged to be married........any ideas of what a jw romance novel might be like?

jgnat

OOOOH. You guys are giving me ideas....I thought you might like this quote from a priceless book I picked up at a garage sale. It was not written by the WTS, but it is 60 years old, which goes along with the current light on sexual practice at the Society.

Both she and her husband will experience the utmost thrill from their first intimacy if both are at the peak of physical fitness. This is something to think of. In some cases it wil be wise to defer the consummation of their marriage for a night or two - or even longer than that. But this deferring of actual union need not withhold from them some of the delights of their new relationship. If the lover-husband will take his wife on his knee, and with her head buried on his shoulder and while she is still fully dressed, gently caress her with his fingers, and perhaps bring about an orgasm (probably the first she has ever had), he will be introducing her to an ecstatic experience that she will certainly never forget. He will be demonstrating his own restraint for the time being, and will be showing a sympathy and consideration that will pay big dividends.

55

Comments You Will Not Hear at the 3-16-03 WT Study

by blondie in

comments you will not hear at the 3-16-03 wt study

february 1, 2003.

"have love among yourselves".

jgnat

WT Study March 16 Have Love Among Yourselves from WT Feb 1, 2003 Can You be Happy and Secure in Your Work?

How is a good JW to feel towards these weak brothers and sisters? Blondie covered very well the obvious contradiction WT members have just been put in to. Over and over JW’s have been told to avoid "worldly" association, avoid “worldly” family, avoid “bad association” - even from within the congregation. The evidence that this message has been received and assimilated is evident by a visit to any congregation. Once a brother or sister is caught in a sin, they are overnight pariahs. That this article has the gall to state “...this outstanding love is observable today among genuine disciples .” is astounding. Only devout JW’s could swallow this whole. Since their only association is other brothers and sisters in good standing, how could they ever find out there is more love outside the organization? (See above)

Demand Brotherly Love

There is potential, however, for xJW’s to use this article to their advantage. I wonder if this article would be handy for anyone attempting the fade and fearing the next elder’s visit will catch them in a disfellowshipping offence.

para. 3 ...

take Paul’s admonition to heart and endeavour to show love for one another “in fuller measure.”

para. 4

In the same inspired letter, Paul encouraged his fellow believers to “speak consolingly to the depressed souls” and to “support the weak.” (I Thessalonians 4:14) On another occasion, he reminded Christians that those “who are strong ought to bear the weaknesses of those not strong.” (Romans 15:1)

para. 9

Just as what was lost remained precious in the eyes of the shepherd and the woman, so those who have drifted away and lost contact with God’s people remain precious in Jehovah’s eyes. (Jeremiah 31:3) Such individuals may be spiritually weak, yet they are not necessarily rebellious. Despite their weakened state, to some extent they may still be keeping Jehovah’s requirements. (Psalm 119:176; Acts 15:29) Hence, as in times past, Jehovah is slow to “cast them away from before his face.” 2 Kings 13:23

So next time the elders call, just tell them you sincerely love Jehovah, you are just in a weakened state right now. “Um, sorry. Not up to a study just yet. I’m sincerely sorry. But could you come visit again, and check on my spiritual health, say in a month or so? Thank you.”

If they give you a rough time, ask them where their consoling words are. Ask if you might receive love “in fuller measure.” If they suggest that you must take responsibility for your own happiness, remind them that

those “who are strong ought to bear the weaknesses of those not strong.”

Ditto for family that are practicing premature shunning. Ask them to read the article again. Twice if necessary. Tell them you are needful of a little loving.

Unforgivable Sins

The article is tricky, however, in that it manages to suggest that not all those who have drifted away are worthy of attention. para. 18

Had the coin dropped in a large, bushy field or in a deep, muddy lake, she probably would have given it up as lost beyond recovery. Acts 15:29 is taken out of context in paragraph nine, and by inference the society considers the breaking of these few rules unforgivable .

But there rose up certain of the sect of the Pharisees who believed, saying, It is needful to circumcise them, and to charge them to keep the law of Moses.... For it seemed good to the Holy Spirit, and to us, to lay upon you no greater burden than these necessary things: that ye abstain from things sacrificed to idols, and from blood, and from things strangled, and from fornication; from which if ye keep yourselves, it shall be well with you. Fare ye well. (Acts 15:5, 28-29 ASV)

(Nevermind that this was written to pacify the most stuck-up of the Jewish Christian congregation and so that Gentile Christian males didn’t have to face circumcision.)

Am I to assume, then, that faded JW’s will not be invited back if they have:

Had sex before marriage
Celebrated a birthday or Christmas, saluted a flag, mounted a crucifix in their home, mounted Christmas lights, or bought items from a garage sale (Abstain from things sacrificed to idols)
Taken a blood transfusion or eaten a bloody steak (abstain from blood)
Accepted an ex-partner or prodigal child back with open arms (Abstain from things strangled. Well, at least you wanted

to strangle them)

See? Self-righteous JW’s can continue to shun with impunity. All they have to convince themselves is that their faded friends and family are lost in the mud and mire and not worth the time and effort to recover.

25

New to the group - I have a couple questions to get started with!!

by bk62 in

i'm not, have never been, nor will i ever be a jw.

unfortunately, i've become caught up in the cult because of my wife.

she's not yet a witness, but many in her family are.

jgnat

This includes several elders - one of who performed our marriage!!

This is so very unusual! Normally, the only marriages conducted by JW's are between two baptized JW's. If a marriage is specifically disapproved of (any relationship where the partners have different beliefs) no JW's will attend. Yes, I would say these friendly and loving people that are studying with you have an agenda. They want both of you, and they want you badly!

If you start asking pointed questions that shows you have done your own research, their attitude will shift very quickly, and all of a sudden it won't be so friendly for you any more. Hmmmm. If I were in your situation, I would put on my happy face, ask the study conductors innocent but uncomfortable questions, and find lots of excuses to skip study nights. Take your wifey to dinner. To the movies. Spoil her with attention. If she has a headache, suggest she take the night off. Look up some of the more restrictive rules of this cult. (And there are plenty. The watchtower sociey has given direction on every aspect of life, including appropriate bedroom behavior.) Are some of her very favorite things on this list? Let her know that if she is to be a good witness, she has got to give these things up.

This situation will not be a quick fix. I am talking years here, not months. The mental manipulation is very strong, and your wife is fully hooked. On the plus side, the Watchtower directs wives with "unbelieving" husbands (unbelieving as in not believing everything written by the Watchtower Society) that they are to submit to his authority. So you do have some leverage.