Posts by jgnat
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51oh cr@p!! its my turn for "an elder called and wants to arrange a shepherding call" thread. Moral support please.
by MissFit inis coming and the elder wanted to set up a visit.
it's not like i wasn't warned.
there was a thread that talked about the push to call on inactive ones.. thanks to the heads up here, i knew the motive for the call.. i don't think i even know that eld.
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144
Escaping Indoctrination - Faith Isn't a Virtue.
by cofty inthe unknown writer of the gospel of john put the following words in jesus' mouth, "blessed are those who have not seen and yet have believed.".
persuading countless generations that it is a virtue to believe incredible things on insufficient evidence, is one of religion's cleverest tricks.. the more incredible the claim; the more flimsy the evidence; the stronger the belief; the greater the virtue.. this is the exact opposite of how we operate in every other aspect of our lives.. rational people must demand objective evidence for everything they are asked to believe.
"extraordinary claims demand extraordinary evidence".. leaving the dogmatic claims of the watchtower is only a first step.
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jgnat
There was a fatalistic view of the world and a serf, born a serf, fully expected to die as a serf. He could take comfort in the "wheel of fortune" that predicted even the fall of kings.
In other words, everyone gets their own in the end. A fatalistic view, a grimmer god.
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144
Escaping Indoctrination - Faith Isn't a Virtue.
by cofty inthe unknown writer of the gospel of john put the following words in jesus' mouth, "blessed are those who have not seen and yet have believed.".
persuading countless generations that it is a virtue to believe incredible things on insufficient evidence, is one of religion's cleverest tricks.. the more incredible the claim; the more flimsy the evidence; the stronger the belief; the greater the virtue.. this is the exact opposite of how we operate in every other aspect of our lives.. rational people must demand objective evidence for everything they are asked to believe.
"extraordinary claims demand extraordinary evidence".. leaving the dogmatic claims of the watchtower is only a first step.
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jgnat
The god of the day reflects the mood of the people. During the middle ages (no longer fashionable to call it dark), life was brutish and short. Death was commonplace. A classical still life included the skull, as a reminder of our mortality.
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144
Escaping Indoctrination - Faith Isn't a Virtue.
by cofty inthe unknown writer of the gospel of john put the following words in jesus' mouth, "blessed are those who have not seen and yet have believed.".
persuading countless generations that it is a virtue to believe incredible things on insufficient evidence, is one of religion's cleverest tricks.. the more incredible the claim; the more flimsy the evidence; the stronger the belief; the greater the virtue.. this is the exact opposite of how we operate in every other aspect of our lives.. rational people must demand objective evidence for everything they are asked to believe.
"extraordinary claims demand extraordinary evidence".. leaving the dogmatic claims of the watchtower is only a first step.
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jgnat
The story, nevertheless, has captured the imagination of....millions. Haven't we replicated the story again, say, in the Die Hard movies?
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126
This is my first post
by Make Lemonade ini wanted to express appreciation to the members of this forum.
there are resources here that are deep.
like we heard from the stage, "what is your depth and breadth of bible knowledge?
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jgnat
Maaan, getting a subpoena from the JW corporation, that's a pressure-cooker for you and your family! The sooner you are out of all that and on with your life the better.
I am sure that you could add more details that would allow us to have even more understand of how you feel. - Make Lemonade
I might but I won't. I'll deal with the work stuff just fine. I've got a great boss. About me getting all logical. People fall back in to their default position when threatened. When I am threatened, I get logical because that is where I feel safest. It can be startling to those closest to me. I also happen to be a chess player. This particular co-worker I had felt comfortable enough with in the past to share what a strategist I am, and how hardly anything gets past me. So she has an inkling of what is ahead. I always have a plan. My plans don't fail because as a chess player, I have a strategy for every contingency. I am sure on the recipient's end it feels like they are in an inescapable vise.
About your wife and that pesky co-worker. I help my daughter with those pesky co-workers who somehow manage to get under out skin every day. I advise my daughter, "Why are you still confiding in her? Spend time with people in the office you really enjoy." My daughter lamented, why does she spend so much emotional energy on these people who give nothing back? I used the analogy of players in "Canada's Worst Driver" show, who when confronted with a narrow entry, invariably hit the posts. Why? They are concentrating on the barrier instead of the road ahead.
We spend far too much time thinking about the people who hinder us, rather than our ultimate goal. Really, they should be the wallpaper in our lives. There, but not significant.
As you can see, this woman did manage to get under my skin. Grrrrr.
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41
The dumest thing an elder ever said to me..
by new hope and happiness inconversation with an elder...i said " did you watch due south yesterday" and he said " ive got far more important things to do".
i mean that comment of his got me to thinking and wondering, and made me see he was missing out on living..and i think that comment was the straw that broke this boys faith, and started my i dont want to be a witness anymore.
kind of wierd how a simple question opened my eyes.. and now as i write this i am watching " the rebel" a 1950s western series, and its great and its even better my 9 year old is watching with me..and there is nothing more important than being happy.. .
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jgnat
Elders don't talk to me much. The time I went off on an elder about discouraging higher education, he said, "It is up to everyone's conscience." Which is why the WTBTS went to all that trouble to dismiss it, right?
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35
Why the Clean out of top Management
by Poztate init has been commented here that "soon" the do's will be history.
the co level will be "retired" at age 70 and the latest development was that the cobe can not serve after age 80. it would seem that there is a "cull" of top management.
in secular companys that would signal a radical change of directions ???.
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jgnat
COs & DOs are not "top management". They are the middle managers. - sir82
Ditto. Corporations clean out middle management all the time as a cost-saving measure. The WTS is also very poor at succession planning. If they have too many old dudes in the middle layer, how can they train and inspire the next generation of suck-ups?
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51
oh cr@p!! its my turn for "an elder called and wants to arrange a shepherding call" thread. Moral support please.
by MissFit inis coming and the elder wanted to set up a visit.
it's not like i wasn't warned.
there was a thread that talked about the push to call on inactive ones.. thanks to the heads up here, i knew the motive for the call.. i don't think i even know that eld.
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jgnat
You only have to defer until after the CO leaves. Blondie is an expert at firm and kind refusal. You could get your receptionist to screen the work calls. The audacity that he would call at work. Tell the receptionist that you are getting unwanted solicitation calls, and have his calls screened.
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144
Escaping Indoctrination - Faith Isn't a Virtue.
by cofty inthe unknown writer of the gospel of john put the following words in jesus' mouth, "blessed are those who have not seen and yet have believed.".
persuading countless generations that it is a virtue to believe incredible things on insufficient evidence, is one of religion's cleverest tricks.. the more incredible the claim; the more flimsy the evidence; the stronger the belief; the greater the virtue.. this is the exact opposite of how we operate in every other aspect of our lives.. rational people must demand objective evidence for everything they are asked to believe.
"extraordinary claims demand extraordinary evidence".. leaving the dogmatic claims of the watchtower is only a first step.
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jgnat
So why do the vast majority of religious people insist that their stories are actually true and that to doubt it is a vice? – cofty
Most American Christians Do Not Believe that Satan or the Holy Spirit Exist
I don't actually think that stories which are entertaining have much to do with religion. – Apognophos
First of all, I was using an analogy that we find value in fiction, and derive direct pleasure from the retelling of re-occurring themes. It is not harmful to do so, and it is not a vice.
I suspect the pleasure in gathering in worship, in singing familiar songs and hearing the familiar stories, is pretty basic to our nature. This you have also alluded to.
Is it not a compelling story that a God came to earth to sacrifice his very life in love, to save humanity?
I was not drawn to Christianity from a fear of death. I do think it is a strong theme amongst Witnesses though.
When I finally joined this thread (I think it was page four), I also challenged, cofty, the effectiveness of directly confronting people who have a firmly held erroneous belief.
All it does is reinforce their former position, as contrary as that sounds. We end up with a little tribe of shrieking believers, waving their shiny swords and tiny threats, sounding ever more delusional by the second. So if clarity and sanity is the goal, why do you go for the jugular?
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144
Escaping Indoctrination - Faith Isn't a Virtue.
by cofty inthe unknown writer of the gospel of john put the following words in jesus' mouth, "blessed are those who have not seen and yet have believed.".
persuading countless generations that it is a virtue to believe incredible things on insufficient evidence, is one of religion's cleverest tricks.. the more incredible the claim; the more flimsy the evidence; the stronger the belief; the greater the virtue.. this is the exact opposite of how we operate in every other aspect of our lives.. rational people must demand objective evidence for everything they are asked to believe.
"extraordinary claims demand extraordinary evidence".. leaving the dogmatic claims of the watchtower is only a first step.
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jgnat
TTATTelder, I am actually hinting at something more primal than our trot-out words; hope, faith, love.
We get visceral pleasure from gathering around and hearing a shared story. We don't get tired of being told the same story over and over again. For instance, Harry Potter is a retelling of the coming-of-age story. Somehow, we end up losing our valued mentor in the telling, and we are left to swim through life alone. Shakespeare was also a master of retelling these primal tales.
We don't tire of hearing a favorite song over again.
It's something fundamental in us, which may be why it escapes our notice. It feels completely natural. Because it is.
Whether the story is factual or not has nothing to do with its value for us.
