Posts by JWoods

23

Did Any JW Here Ever Believe They Were Going To Heaven & Not Paradise Earth?

by minimus in

jw
friends

just curious..

JWoods

I sort of had that feeling a couple of years before a number of us left during the Ray Franz era.

I had to conduct the memorial (the last one I attended) and I partook of the emblems...I did not follow the society outline - I just read the gospel accounts of it, did the songs, and had the emblems passed.

>> of course, most of the hardline elders thought I was crazy by then anyway so it wasn't that big a deal. I resigned and quit going to any meetings shortly afterward. It took them a couple of years to finally DF me.

61

Do Some JWs Go to Heaven?

by leavingwt in

jw
friends

do some jw's go to heaven?

i read both of ray franz's books, and i was left with the impression that in his opinion, being a christian and being a jw were not necessarily mutually exclusive.

some of my christian coworkers have also expressed similar thoughts, when they say that there are "christ's brothers" within many different denominations.

JWoods

Yes, there will be JWs going to Heaven. If they have confessed that they are sinners and believe that Jesus died to save them from their sins. All who call on the name of the Lord will be saved. There is no other name given under Heaven whereby we are saved. Many JWs truly love Jesus and whether they ever leave the organization or not they will still go to Heaven.

Salvation accomplishes a restored relationship with our creator.

This is almost exactly what Ed & Marion Dunlap came to believe, and told me so, some years after leaving the witnesses at the time of the Ray Franz blowup.

It is my suspicion (my unsubstantiated opinion only, note) that Ed was very close to accepting the full divinity of Christ (if not fully the trinity) by the time he died. One of his favorite statements at the time is that we have absolutely no way to know anything about Jehovah except what we might know by knowing Christ. In other words - that Jesus was the revealed Jehovah, and totally supercedes anything in the old testament, which he suspected may have been influenced by later Jewish ideas.

I never told Ed that I was actually an agnostic up to the time he passed away out of respect for his feelings. Marion suspected it, but we also remained friends and discussed all these religious ideas up until he died years later.

82

So...is David Splaine the new bible scholar (or Fred Franz) of the WTBTS?

by Joliette in

was watching the faith dvd yesterday, and he seems like a smarty pants know it all?

he doesnt seem like a hard hitter or bad ass or anything, but it seems like the kinda guy, that if you went out in field service with, that he would constantly correct you, and have smart ass comments to make about the householders who arent intrested in owning a watchtower or awake..

JWoods

I was told by Marion Dunlap (and I am sure he got it from his brother Ed Dunlap) that there were indeed stories about Freddy on the gay issue.

They were especially due to the habit Freddy had of having a little favorite clicque of about half a dozen young bethel guys and having little "hot tub parties" with them in the spa. Supposedly he was giving his hand picked crew some of his deep spiritual insight - but a lot of Bethel people at the time (1970s) thought it really looked odd. Freddy was, of course, too high up to be challenged on the appearances of it. Marion's take on it was that Freddy was likely an asexual celibate for the most part but with definate homosexual tendencies.

Homosexuality became sort of the "big taboo" at Bethel in the 70s because of a scandal involving up to probably a dozen people. If I recall correctly, the Bethel committees at the time did not name "homosexual acts" in the committee records, but rather called it "covetousness" or some such so as to not leave too obvious a paper trail.

And, of course, the thing with GB members Chitty & Greenlees was common knowledge among the elders but still the subject of a general attempt to cover it up.

265

Pastor to burn Koran

by beksbks in

us pastor says will burn koran despite petraeus concernshttp://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/20100907/pl_afp/afghanistanunrestusreligionislampastor.

tue sep 7, 9:21 am et end .byline washington (afp) the pastor of a small florida church said tuesday he will go ahead with his plans to hold a koran burning this week, despite warnings by the us commander of the afghan war of violent reactions in the islamic world.terry jones, who heads the dove world outreach center in gainesville florida, said he had given "serious" consideration to the concerns expressed by general david petraeus over plans to torch a koran to mark the ninth anniversary of the september 11 terror attacks, but said he would proceed anyway.. "we are taking the general's words very serious.

we are continuing to pray about the action on september 11th," he said.. nevertheless, he said "we have firmly made up our mind" to go ahead with burning the muslim holy book.. "i mean, how long, when does america stand for truth?

JWoods

Um... I can't click on to their website anymore? Anyone else having problems, or is it just me?

The Dove Church one? If so, you have either more guts or a better anonymity guard system than I do to try...

265

Pastor to burn Koran

by beksbks in

us pastor says will burn koran despite petraeus concernshttp://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/20100907/pl_afp/afghanistanunrestusreligionislampastor.

tue sep 7, 9:21 am et end .byline washington (afp) the pastor of a small florida church said tuesday he will go ahead with his plans to hold a koran burning this week, despite warnings by the us commander of the afghan war of violent reactions in the islamic world.terry jones, who heads the dove world outreach center in gainesville florida, said he had given "serious" consideration to the concerns expressed by general david petraeus over plans to torch a koran to mark the ninth anniversary of the september 11 terror attacks, but said he would proceed anyway.. "we are taking the general's words very serious.

we are continuing to pray about the action on september 11th," he said.. nevertheless, he said "we have firmly made up our mind" to go ahead with burning the muslim holy book.. "i mean, how long, when does america stand for truth?

JWoods

This problem is being fuelled by the media

this mornings television here in Oz is talking about it

the internet is full of it

if they just left it alone, hardly anybody would know about it, let alone do anything in retaliation...

my 2 cents worth...

oz

Oz makes a valuable point that we have largely missed discussing here: This is pretty much a non-event fanned into a scandal by the media. But, not JUST the media - I hate to say it, but General Petreaus (who I like & support) had a big hand in getting this national attention by calling it out. I think Petreaus would have done far better to ignore it - it is not worthy of the remarks of a general in the field.

I think it is also pretty significant that President Obama has spoken out today against the book-burning in strong terms - while at the same time seemingly supporting the Mosque at ground zero, and then saying that he "had to remain silent on the wisdom of the mosque subject". This kind of thing makes a lot of people think Obama is very apologetic toward Islam - even making some of the most far-out claim he is Muslim himself. (NO - I don't believe that, but I see how his actions can fan the flames)

265

Pastor to burn Koran

by beksbks in

us pastor says will burn koran despite petraeus concernshttp://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/20100907/pl_afp/afghanistanunrestusreligionislampastor.

tue sep 7, 9:21 am et end .byline washington (afp) the pastor of a small florida church said tuesday he will go ahead with his plans to hold a koran burning this week, despite warnings by the us commander of the afghan war of violent reactions in the islamic world.terry jones, who heads the dove world outreach center in gainesville florida, said he had given "serious" consideration to the concerns expressed by general david petraeus over plans to torch a koran to mark the ninth anniversary of the september 11 terror attacks, but said he would proceed anyway.. "we are taking the general's words very serious.

we are continuing to pray about the action on september 11th," he said.. nevertheless, he said "we have firmly made up our mind" to go ahead with burning the muslim holy book.. "i mean, how long, when does america stand for truth?

JWoods

The power of Archie Bunker compels you...

From the great beyond -

265

Pastor to burn Koran

by beksbks in

us pastor says will burn koran despite petraeus concernshttp://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/20100907/pl_afp/afghanistanunrestusreligionislampastor.

tue sep 7, 9:21 am et end .byline washington (afp) the pastor of a small florida church said tuesday he will go ahead with his plans to hold a koran burning this week, despite warnings by the us commander of the afghan war of violent reactions in the islamic world.terry jones, who heads the dove world outreach center in gainesville florida, said he had given "serious" consideration to the concerns expressed by general david petraeus over plans to torch a koran to mark the ninth anniversary of the september 11 terror attacks, but said he would proceed anyway.. "we are taking the general's words very serious.

we are continuing to pray about the action on september 11th," he said.. nevertheless, he said "we have firmly made up our mind" to go ahead with burning the muslim holy book.. "i mean, how long, when does america stand for truth?

JWoods

Undercover, I think you posted the hug-fest graphic a little too soon...

265

Pastor to burn Koran

by beksbks in

us pastor says will burn koran despite petraeus concernshttp://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/20100907/pl_afp/afghanistanunrestusreligionislampastor.

tue sep 7, 9:21 am et end .byline washington (afp) the pastor of a small florida church said tuesday he will go ahead with his plans to hold a koran burning this week, despite warnings by the us commander of the afghan war of violent reactions in the islamic world.terry jones, who heads the dove world outreach center in gainesville florida, said he had given "serious" consideration to the concerns expressed by general david petraeus over plans to torch a koran to mark the ninth anniversary of the september 11 terror attacks, but said he would proceed anyway.. "we are taking the general's words very serious.

we are continuing to pray about the action on september 11th," he said.. nevertheless, he said "we have firmly made up our mind" to go ahead with burning the muslim holy book.. "i mean, how long, when does america stand for truth?

JWoods

Beks and JWoods going at it

Actually, it was mostly Justitia and JWoods. I was expecting some help from my friend Beks, but she has been apparantly hiding under her library desk...

265

Pastor to burn Koran

by beksbks in

us pastor says will burn koran despite petraeus concernshttp://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/20100907/pl_afp/afghanistanunrestusreligionislampastor.

tue sep 7, 9:21 am et end .byline washington (afp) the pastor of a small florida church said tuesday he will go ahead with his plans to hold a koran burning this week, despite warnings by the us commander of the afghan war of violent reactions in the islamic world.terry jones, who heads the dove world outreach center in gainesville florida, said he had given "serious" consideration to the concerns expressed by general david petraeus over plans to torch a koran to mark the ninth anniversary of the september 11 terror attacks, but said he would proceed anyway.. "we are taking the general's words very serious.

we are continuing to pray about the action on september 11th," he said.. nevertheless, he said "we have firmly made up our mind" to go ahead with burning the muslim holy book.. "i mean, how long, when does america stand for truth?

JWoods

Back on the topic - here is the "associate pastor" deciding that God really did tell them to burn the Korans -

By Larry Copeland, USA TODAY
GAINESVILLE, Fla. — An associate pastor of the Dove World Outreach Center, which is moving ahead with plans to burn copies of the Muslim holy book on Saturday, said ......."We are convinced this is the direction God wants us to go," Sapp said. "That's the only reason we're doing it in the first place."

God can't do it for himself, I guess...

265

Pastor to burn Koran

by beksbks in

us pastor says will burn koran despite petraeus concernshttp://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/20100907/pl_afp/afghanistanunrestusreligionislampastor.

tue sep 7, 9:21 am et end .byline washington (afp) the pastor of a small florida church said tuesday he will go ahead with his plans to hold a koran burning this week, despite warnings by the us commander of the afghan war of violent reactions in the islamic world.terry jones, who heads the dove world outreach center in gainesville florida, said he had given "serious" consideration to the concerns expressed by general david petraeus over plans to torch a koran to mark the ninth anniversary of the september 11 terror attacks, but said he would proceed anyway.. "we are taking the general's words very serious.

we are continuing to pray about the action on september 11th," he said.. nevertheless, he said "we have firmly made up our mind" to go ahead with burning the muslim holy book.. "i mean, how long, when does america stand for truth?

JWoods

Serious subject, though, Sylvia.

Until it got into hijack hell.