Posts by JWoods

16

Republican Witnesses and Democrat Witnesses

by inkling in

it seems to me that witnesses are political in .

much the same way they are racist: i.e.

but not out loud.. i recall a conversation during a coffee break.

JWoods

One thing you may have to take into consideration for JWs of my generation was the VietNam War. While people a generation past me remember the 1960s as hippie heaven, young witness guys like me were facing the draft.

This war was - face it or not - brought into being by Kennedy & LBJ, and it was Nixon who eventually stopped it. Nixon also saved my butt with the draft lottery. NOBODY my age group trusted the Dem candidate Hubert Humphrey to do anything but slog on as before in VietNam...hence the HUGE anti-war demonstartions that his party conventions drew from the radicals and students.

There is another factor, as well - I know quite a number of people who upon leaving the WTS in the post-1975 thing, and really truly being demonized over apostacy - reached out to the ACLU for help. They were laughed at and told to go play in the street; ACLU too busy hating on Reagan.

Plus, for me at least, there was always the stigma of being kind of a pinko-commie by association with the anti-government, anti-war, and almost collectivized Witnesses. I was ready to move on with college, good job, decent life - the stuff associated with conservative politics.

What frosts me about present day Republican Party, though - is the way they seem to be owned by the evangelicals. This also gives you flashbacks to the witness priesthood.

41

WHERE in the bible does it say each creative day was 6,000 years? Ending around 1975??

by Witness 007 in

could be 8,000 or 18,000 years long......if to jehovah each "a day is like a thousand years and a thousand years a day.

" 1975 armagedon theory was based on this.

{notice how this theory has since died off} my wife was told off by an elder for giving a talk on "creative days not 24 hours" but not stating each was 6,000 years long...she said she didn't believe it....he backed off and said okay then!

JWoods

Blondie, would you happen to know how long it took post that 1987 wish-wash for them to actually print the dreaded "creative days are MANY thousands of years long?"

BTW, couldn't help commenting on the celebrated form of Watchtower logic: ("study of fulfillment of prophecy","strongly indicate","it is understood") - not a direct scriptural reference or anything else for any of it other than we wished we were in the time of the end in 1975.

Second, a study of the fulfillment of Bible prophecy and of our location in the stream of time strongly indicate that each of the creative days (Genesis, chapter 1) is 7,000 years long. It is understood that Christ’s reign of a thousand years will bring to a close God’s 7,000-year ‘rest day,’ the last ‘day’ of the creative week.

41

WHERE in the bible does it say each creative day was 6,000 years? Ending around 1975??

by Witness 007 in

could be 8,000 or 18,000 years long......if to jehovah each "a day is like a thousand years and a thousand years a day.

" 1975 armagedon theory was based on this.

{notice how this theory has since died off} my wife was told off by an elder for giving a talk on "creative days not 24 hours" but not stating each was 6,000 years long...she said she didn't believe it....he backed off and said okay then!

JWoods

The AID book clearly identifies the creative day as 7,000 years. This is the basis of the whole 1975 doctrine. They needed to wrap up god's day of rest by the end of the 1,000 year reign.

And in the uniquely circular manner of WT argument, the 1975 thing was used to reflectively "prove" the 7,000 year day. After all, obviously 1975 was the "right time" for the end, wasn't it? And wasn't it estimated to be about 6000 years into "man's existence"...so conversely, 1975 and the 7000 year day -

They ended up "proving" EACH OTHER!!!

EDIT TO SAY - ended up proving that BOTH were collectively a rancid stick of baloney, and the following generations of celebrated Watchtower scholars could not jettison both of them (and deny both of them) fast enough post-Freddie.

111

where do the refinements come from?, and why do you answer thus?

by Spike Tassel in

bluecanary asks [with emphasis mine]:.

in the past when god's chosen leader acted without his blessing, god corrected the individual/group in an obvious and miraculous way.

why does it appear, then, that when the gb is "adjusted" it comes from external sources, such as the 1914 generation dying off, or races integrating nationwide.

JWoods

In the automotive industry, this stuff would be called a recall. It is viewed as a serious embarrassment to the engineers responsible for the faulty design.

In the aircraft industry, it would likely result in the airplane involved being declared not airworthy. (Unless, I guess, you are Airbus).

I sense a sort of apology going down here for the WTBTS "changing their minds" dozens of times over the past century.

The incredible nature of that apology seems to be - well, Jehovah changes his mind every so often too...so it is ok for the society.

Unbelievable... tantamount to saying that your religion can be a flip-flopping totalitarian regime, because your God is like that too!

41

WHERE in the bible does it say each creative day was 6,000 years? Ending around 1975??

by Witness 007 in

could be 8,000 or 18,000 years long......if to jehovah each "a day is like a thousand years and a thousand years a day.

" 1975 armagedon theory was based on this.

{notice how this theory has since died off} my wife was told off by an elder for giving a talk on "creative days not 24 hours" but not stating each was 6,000 years long...she said she didn't believe it....he backed off and said okay then!

JWoods

I think we should get Spike and Reniaa in here to clear this up for us.

Or at least some celebrated Watchtower scientists and scholars.

This is of course, the very MOST screwed up thing wrong with the 1874, 1914, 1975, and so on - NOWHERE do you find any solid reference to a 7 thousand year creative day.

Didn't stop them from stepping into this dog mess three times in a row, though - did it?

41

WHERE in the bible does it say each creative day was 6,000 years? Ending around 1975??

by Witness 007 in

could be 8,000 or 18,000 years long......if to jehovah each "a day is like a thousand years and a thousand years a day.

" 1975 armagedon theory was based on this.

{notice how this theory has since died off} my wife was told off by an elder for giving a talk on "creative days not 24 hours" but not stating each was 6,000 years long...she said she didn't believe it....he backed off and said okay then!

JWoods

I thought they were supposed to be 7000 years each in the "old light" - thus the big deal that 1975 marked the end of 6000 years of man's existence and then left room for the 1000 year millenium.

As I understand this now, they no longer give a specific number of years but say "thousands of years - evidently".

You know, if you are just going to make your stuff up from the whole cloth - why not just say "millions of years" so that you would not look so outrageously stupid in the face of real science? The title poster is right - this was totally fabricated and then even both iterations of the fabrication are ridiculous in the face of archeological and scientific evidence.

22

District Convention 2009 Complete Audio Recording. Why not for general distribution?

by ThomasCovenant in

jw
friends

i have a complete recording of the 2009 district convention.

at the beginning, the speaker says that if you do record the convention, you are not to use it for general distribution.. why not?.

if the assembly is a public event why not get it around as much as possible?.

JWoods

Maybe a few of the real old timers still remember the famous Freddy Franz rant about 1975.

It was pretty hard to claim they never said it with a tape of this still around.

34

Am I a trinitarian ?

by PSacramento in

JWoods

History Channel on the subject made the claim that much of the Aryan/Athanasian debate was really over whether Christ was just a mere mortal prophet or should be viewed as a divine.

They seemed to think that Christianity (in the full "Catholic" sense) would not have been historically possible if the other side had won the debate.

Witnesses believe that the wrong side won it, and that this was the first stroke of "apostacy" for the Christian church - only to be eliminated and the church made pure again by C. T. Russell.

93

what is best evidence against noah's flood?......

by oompa in

keep it simple if possible........i like the ice core samples.........thanks, this was not my big issue but i may be able to use it.......oompa.

feel free to direct me to another thread btw...... or maybe i should read the second page of olins thread!.

JWoods

Any way to get Ray's commentary here? is it availble for download?

Or at least give us a little synopsis - literal global flood believer, local flood legend, or what?

34

Am I a trinitarian ?

by PSacramento in

JWoods

No I don't think Jesus and God are the same person, I believe that God resides in Jesus, that they are in perfect union because that is how God wills it to be, all that God is Jesus is and all that jesus is, God is.

Jesus is the "embodiment" and manifestation of all of God's qualities, including God divinity.

This, I think, was where both Marion and Ed Dunlap had pretty much arrived at post-witnesses after a number of years. I remember being rather put off by it at the time as it sort of sounded a little trinitarian to me.

Of course, I have generally grown more into agnosticism since then.