inbetween

Joined 16 years ago

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Posts by inbetween

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  35

  I feel so discourage

  by Desilusionnee in

  1. watchtower
  2. child-abuse

  15 years ago

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  15 years ago
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  inbetween 15 years ago

  What helps me in such a situation, is to think back at the time, before I awakened. I defended the org, as one and only.

  If something was hard to understand, I used the "wait on Jehovah" line of reasoning.

  Most important though, somebody has to be ready to listen to the truth about the truth. In conversations with fellow brosis, I let them talk, without giving too much of my thoughts, if they express some concerns, I carefully try to expand them, and to help them think for themselves. But this has to be done with care and very slow.

  Even if witrnesses think, that some teachngs are strange, for example the new generation teaching, or how to come to 1914 (most cant explain it anyway without help of the books) they always will remember, how the org help them to see the truth about trinity, immortal soul, hellfire. So out of a wrongly interpreted loyalty, they stick up for the org, even if they do not understand or really not agree with some stuff.

  And they get constanly reminded, every meeting, twice a week, how important it is to stick to the org.

  After you realize, that all this whole scheme is man-made, many things really seem weird, but what helps me, is to see the people, mostly really honestly trying to serve God. I try not to condemn them or look down on them, as i was the same just a short while ago.

  Patience, esp. with your family, is most vital. Take it slow, find your pace, wait for the right moment.

  Link
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  26

  Can I ask elders a question without getting in trouble?

  by NiceDream in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  15 years ago

  recently i found no scriptural evidence to support 607 or therefore 1914. and the new overlapping generation really bothers my conscience because i don't see how it is scripturally supported.. .

  if i write a letter to bethel, or talk with local elders, i am afraid of getting df'd because i don't want to cause family conflict (with my spouse's family, not mine).

  i asked my spouse if it would be ok if i talked with an elder because i want answers, but don't want to cause family problems.

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  15 years ago
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  inbetween 15 years ago

  it depends on the elder, I would say.

  I remember, years ago, when I still was fully in, a publisher asked about 1914, not the 607vs587 thing, but why we say, that the whole prophecy of Daniel has a further fulfillment, besides the 7 years for a gentile King.

  I looked up information, and found out, that it is not really convincing. even to me. Still I tried to explain it to him. He confessed, that I did not fully succeed, anyway, I left it alone, never hunted him for that. secretely, I agreed with him, even though 1914 still was a sure thing for me at that time.

  Now I know, he was on the right track, my arguments, (based on WTS literature) were really weak.

  What i want to say, if you proceed carefully, and not dogmatic, maybe you can get even an elder to think. But it really depends on the elder, of course...

  Link
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  26

  If You Were Ever An Elder...

  by Henry in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  18 years ago

  what about the responsibility of being an elder did you dislike the most?

  i served from september 2003 - june 2006. there were two things that bugged me the most the first was i got sick of the bickering amongst the body.

  we had 7 elders and in nearly every situation, big or small, there was some division that got personal.

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  13 years ago
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  inbetween 15 years ago

  How can one be an elder and still know the truth about the truth ?

  This question keeps coming up in my mind frequently.

  I think, it very much depends on the personal situation. A complete fade is atm completely unthinkable for me, it would kill my parents, even literally I fear. Therefore even to step aside from the "privilge" may turn too quick into a fading move, and bring up too many questions, thats why I cannot risk it for now.

  I silent my conscience by trying to be as reasonable, liberal, tolerant as possible, and direct any discussion to a scriptural basis, and in imitation of Jesus Christs qualities.

  Our BOE is not so bad, we have some intelligent reasonable elders there. Of course, any letter from the branch is considered equal as Gods word, something that is increasingly disturbing to me. On the other hand, fortunately its rare, that we need to consult them.

  All in all, being a JW is not so bad for my personal situation. As a born in, I know nothing else anyway, and I consider myself mostly as a happy person. My foremost concern is my wife, she becomes critical from time to time regarding the Borg, I carefully support it, but I most not go to far, its still the truth for her. Pushing it too much will make her too suspiscious.

  Whats the worst for me ever since Ive been an elder were judicial comitees, alwas felt strange to sit and judge...long time before my awakening, it struck me at one elder school, were the topic of one of the talks was about being judges. It sounded so strange, since Jesus told us not to judge. Mostly cases I was one ended in a private reproof, and I had the feeling, it was rather a help for the person than a punishment. One time though I had to agree to df a person, it was clear, even on a biblical reason, however, it bugged me for many days and nights, could not really get over it. This was also before I came here.

  One thing I clearly can say, I never was for the power, I did not even desire to become an elder, it just happened, I almost denied when they asked me.

  Time will show what will happen, for now I have to be an "undercover elder apostate".

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  32

  Generation teaching. What is it about witnesses that they don't see this for what it is?

  by garyneal in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  15 years ago

  i cannot for the life of me understand why jehovah's witnesses don't see right through the b.s.

  regarding their overlapping generation being equal to one generation.

  also, i am a bit perplexed at how little certain jehovah's witnesses know their own doctrine.. take my wife, for instance:.

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  15 years ago
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  inbetween 15 years ago

  I remember back in 95, when the new teaching came, I thought by myself: No surprise, the org had to do something, because the old teaching just runs out of time, ...

  still, I swallowed the new explanation, I also recall, how I tried to twist my brain in order to accept this contemporary wicked generation thing....

  funny, i must have had a "lucidum intervallum", a short apostate moment during my theocratic sleeping time

  Link
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  28

  New Generation -- NO Thinking Allowed!

  by UnDisfellowshipped in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  15 years ago

  the new, new, new, new light on the generation: just believe it -- or else!.

  the watchtower, august 1st, 2001 issue, page 14, paragraph 8:.

  "first, since oneness is to be observed, a mature christian must be in unity and full harmony with fellow believers as far as faith and knowledge are concerned.

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  15 years ago
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  inbetween 15 years ago

  well, I think it was the urgency issue.

  With t e xample of Franz, its clear, where they are going. Many anointed, like most of the GB, are born somewhere in the 20-ties and 30-ties, maybe early 40-ties.

  So they are now from 60 to 80 years old. Their lifes overlap with Franzies generation. Still they are alive, but already aged, which through the line they are implying, max 10 to 20 years for this system. because then the generation of overlappers also ceases.

  Of course, there is always the open end loop-hole, meaning if in 20 years big A didnt come, still there are younger anointed alive, those who are now 40 or 50 years old...

  So they can step by step keep the sense of urgency, without saying too much or spoiling the future.

  Link
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  7

  Fun meeting with an elder

  by teel in

  1. jw
  2. experiences

  15 years ago

  a few days ago an elder, old aquaintance of mine visited me (alone, which was my request - props for him for accepting my terms).

  it was quite an interresting meeting.

  this elder is quite intelligent, he is a professor at a local college.

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  15 years ago
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  inbetween 15 years ago

  our hall has quite a number of very intelligent individuals,

  one has all kinds of books about Philosophy at home, and he read them and, from my point of view, even undertstood most of their thinking, but their is not one trace of doubt about JW theology

  another one, an elder, very smart individual as well, sometimes doubts certain explanations of the oRG, but never the whole thing, I´ll be curious how he will explain the "generation" at the WTs study ( he is the conductor) and he goes often very deep with his additional questions, makes you really think, his WTs study is not as braindead as most here describe it actually...I plan to discuss it with him afterwards, he is also honest with me, if he disagrees to certain stuff.

  besides them we have a number of college graduates, also smart people, however, they must leave their brain at the entrance, when they enter the hall....

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  146

  What Stupid Things Were You Counseled For?

  by minimus in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  15 years ago

  i've always been told that i have a very good personality, that i'm humorous, etc.. one elder called me over and said that i was "smiling too much".

  the other elders talked to the elder who counseled me and he came back to say that i should be like i was .

  .

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  12 years ago
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  inbetween 15 years ago

  as a MS, got to be chairman on sunday meetings, opened up with "dear sisters and brothers...."

  got counseled for mentioning "sisters" first ,because thats what the world does (ladies and gentleman) but this is not scriptural, as JW we respect the headship of men, so from that time on I had to say "dear brothers and sisters..."

  At that time, i did not blame it on the religion, I blamed the guy, back then an elder about 40, a real strange person, extreme and weird, to this day btw...

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  37

  CO visit reviews new "Generation" change today...

  by Soldier77 in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  15 years ago

  so this week has been co visit.

  i'll try to do a review without too much of me going off on a tangent to get the overview out and then let you all comment as you see fit.. theme of the week based on matt.

  24 (sign of jesus presence and the end of the system of things).. co stressed once again (he as said this in every talk this week) that we are approaching 100 years of jesus reign.

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  15 years ago
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  inbetween 15 years ago

  I see most will swallow it hook, line and sinker, being thankful for new lite....

  Maybe we can ask some (those who try to think for themselves)

  "ok, just imagine, 20 years ago another religion would have explained the definition of the generation with this overlapping idea, how would you have reacted ?"

  Most likely every witness would have made fun of this nonsense. back then, a generation was 70 max. 80 years, thats it, end impending...

  Thinking about this may reveal, how stupid the new teaching really is...

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  55

  generation teaching reconsidered

  by inbetween in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  15 years ago

  was thinking about this new generation teaching, and to some extend it makes sense, let me explain.. first of all, i personally believe, it only applied to jesus time, it only made sense there, and when jesus talked about it, in the year 33, this generation certainly observed the events leading to jerusalems destruction 70 ce.

  ( even though the context does not really give much hint, since he talks about the sign of the son of man being seen in heaven etc, something that did not happen in the first century).

  the main question is, what is a generation ?.

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  15 years ago
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  inbetween 15 years ago

  mary: What I meant with this scripture, it shows that a generation means people born at roughly the same time, being descendanst of another people born at their aprox. time.

  Its clear, that for example the lifespan of the third generation overlaps with those of the fourth generation, but the third and the fourth generation do not become one generation, just because their lifes overlap.

  One time the third generation will pass away, while the fourth is still existing...

  The fact, that the fourth generation still exists does not miracolously make the third generation still alive...

  The genration 0f 1914 is passed away, their descendants still exist ( people born in the 20´s and 3´0´s, but those are not the generation of 1914)

  My point is to express the difference between overlapping lifespans of people of different generations, and the unique lifespan of one generation, that has a beginning and an ending.

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  55

  generation teaching reconsidered

  by inbetween in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  15 years ago

  was thinking about this new generation teaching, and to some extend it makes sense, let me explain.. first of all, i personally believe, it only applied to jesus time, it only made sense there, and when jesus talked about it, in the year 33, this generation certainly observed the events leading to jerusalems destruction 70 ce.

  ( even though the context does not really give much hint, since he talks about the sign of the son of man being seen in heaven etc, something that did not happen in the first century).

  the main question is, what is a generation ?.

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  15 years ago
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  inbetween 15 years ago

  can you refute the teaching with the bible ?

  maybe, look at

  Exodus 20:5 (New International Version)

  5 You shall not bow down to them or worship them; for I, the LORD your God, am a jealous God, punishing the children for the sin of the fathers to the third and fourth generation of those who hate me,

  Would be interesting, which greek word the Septuagint used for it...

  Here its clear,what a generation in biblical sense means...

  Link