inbetween

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Posts by inbetween

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  19

  The Organization is NOT Spirit-Directed! -- Says J.R. Brown!

  by UnDisfellowshipped in

  1. watchtower
  2. scandals

  "the watchtower" magazine, march 1, 1992, page 6:.

  "the watchtower" magazine, march 15, 1991, page 22: .

  "the watchtower" magazine, march 15, 1986, page 18:.

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  inbetween

  they beat around the bush, their goal:

  obey them blindly but

  if things go wrong, they dont want to be responsible....
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  20

  ABBA - Dancing Queen (1976)

  by possible-san in

  1. social
  2. entertainment

  abba - dancing queen (1976).

  even now, the japanese people love this music.. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=reeluors1pq.

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  inbetween

  ABBA, my first album, I was 14. Still love most of their music, to this day. "Gimme, gimme, gimme a (wo)man after midnight.... "

  Funny story: It was acceptable music to my parents, however, onetime I tapped it for a friend, his mom, an overzealous zealot (sorry witness) destroyed his tape, saying its denomic music !!!!

  ABBA denomic music ?? omg...
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  69

  You jackasses in Bethel or at the Branch, need to cut me a check.........

  by miseryloveselders in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  tuesday night, i drove to a couple of older sister's homes, and dropped off their magazines, and kindom ministries.

  thursday night, i went to the meeting and cleaned and locked up the building.

  i also dropped someone off who earlier recieved a ride to the hall but their ride couldn't come back to take them home.

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  inbetween

  MLE, absolutly feel for you, in many aspects same her. if it was not for family, I would be out a while ago.

  hanging in there becomes more and more tiresome, and even quite depressiv at times.

  sitting at the meetings, listening (soemtimes producing) to nonsense or boring topics. Worst of it, to nod to stupid cultish comments from others, how wonderful everything in JW world is, how thankful we have to be to faithful and discreet slave, etc....

  only comfort rigtht now, there are others going through the same, this forum here is really a therapy....
• 
  9

  blood - a different approach

  by inbetween in

  1. watchtower
  2. medical

  as often discussed here and on other places, there are many good arguments against the wts blood policy.

  basically the distinction between what is a component and what a fraction, is often , and right so, target of critisicm.

  however, it can get confusing, especially when apologists like thirdwitness or standfirm argue for any spot of reasonableness in it.

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  inbetween

  Murray smith: your reasoning regarding the blood is absolutely correct, however, it requires a little bit deeper understanding of the Mosaic Law, and I fear, it might be too "apostate" for close minded JW. On the other hand, I believe, there are so many different ways to refute the official blood doctrine, that it might help, to try different ones in opening the eyes of listening JW.

  Mr monroe: Thanks for the qoute, i had it somewhere in my mind too, therefore, my argument 1) was especially directed towards this. Its soo ridicolous, even before I started to wake up, I could not really accept this reasoning.
• 
  9

  blood - a different approach

  by inbetween in

  1. watchtower
  2. medical

  as often discussed here and on other places, there are many good arguments against the wts blood policy.

  basically the distinction between what is a component and what a fraction, is often , and right so, target of critisicm.

  however, it can get confusing, especially when apologists like thirdwitness or standfirm argue for any spot of reasonableness in it.

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  inbetween

  As often discussed here and on other places, there are many good arguments against the WTS blood policy. Basically the distinction between what is a component and what a fraction, is often , and right so, target of critisicm. However, it can get confusing, especially when apologists like thirdwitness or standfirm argue for any spot of reasonableness in it. Many dubs may scare away from an indepth discussion, and just let the WTS think for them ("they researched it anyway, and know better than we, after all we are to trust our leadership"). Therefore, maybe another approach may help.

  Lets just say, for arguments sake, the commandment to abstain from blood really includes blood transfusions.

  The WTS often argues, that is is better to loose ones life and stay faithful, than to break Gods law, therefore stay alive, but loose Gods favour. As example often those martyr Christains of ancient times are mentioned, who did not compromise their faith and rather died.

  Lets analyse, if this is really consistent and logical:

  1) When Christains in old times were faced with the possibility to loose their life it was always when enemies of them tried to force them to loose their integrity. Their loyalty to Goid was questioned by opposers. The issue was, whether they fear men or God. Those men persecuted them, and their faith was challenged.

  However, regarding blood transfusions, this analogy fails. If you get in an accident or have a complex surgery, the medical stuff does not try to break your faith or to persecute you. They simply do what their profession is, to safe your life, to help you. They do not care what kind of faith you have, they do not require any kind of worship from you, they just want to help ! No comparison to heathen or wicked opposers.

  2) No doubt, for a Christain, to keep the commandments of God, it is very important, if not most important in life. However, does it mean, that any commandment is absolute with no exception ? Example, a clear commandment is not to kill another person. What if you act in self defense ? Lets say you have no choice other than protect yourself than to kill the aggressor ? Did you still overstep the commandment not to kill ? Even WTS acknowledges that when you had no other option (like running away etc), acting in self defense to protect your life is allowed. Therefore even witnesses can be police with carrying a gun. Though they will have no privilege, they will noit be dfd for it. So why is it then forbidden to take a blood transfusion, if its the only means to save your life ?

  3) Whats the point of any commandment of God ? How did Jesus view Gods laws, as absolute commandment, with no reasonings or exceptions whatsoever ? What about the account about the woman with the blood flow ? She clealry overstepped the letter of the law, by approaching Jesus. However, Jesus did not rebuke her, because following the letter of the law would have, in this case, violated the intention of the law. The intention was for hygenical reasons, that a woman with blood flow has to be seperated from others. However, if she kept the letter of the law, she would not have been healed, and therefore always pose a risk to herself and others. What the reason fo the blood prohibition ? To view blood as carrying the life, and therefore sacred. It should not be misused. However, what if life is lost, because of clinging to the letter of the law ? Is than not also the intention of the law violated ?

  Sorry I dont have my cd-rom at work, so I cannot include references atm, the WTS stance is more or less from memory. I´ll try to provide exact quotes on a later time. Just wanted to know your opinions. I f there are weaknesses in my reasoning, please feel free to spot them. Its appreciated.
• 
  65

  So I finished reading the Origin of Species last night.....

  by Mr. Falcon in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  ...oh my.. i am not trying to start a creation vs. evolution debate, but something else really did stand out in my mind upon reading this "infamous" book.

  and that is that the theory of evolution is a very complex and at times, logically interesting theory.

  it makes valid points as well as asking fair and legitimate questions of the theory of creation.

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  inbetween

  I wonder if this talk earned him a friendly chat with the elders after the meeting.

  I was one of the elders, and I commended him actually, funny thing though, most complaints about his talk came from the "average" publishers...
• 
  35

  Blondie's Comments You Will Not Hear at the 02-27-11 WT Study (SING)

  by blondie in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  review comments will be headed by comments.

  book of psalms._read psalm 8:3, 4, 7-9.. .

  praise god in song.. .

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  inbetween

  glad we missed meeting this time. I was sick (really !) wife kind of faked it, she was really not in the mood to go (funny, she is mentally still in ..kind of...)and I didnt stop her from staying home...

  But as a good dub, I prepared of course ;-)

  and once again, I wonder, who writes articles like that ? especially the reason given for the new song book, because light got brighter , huh ?

  why not simply change the terms form "new order" to "new world" etc, doesnt need to compose completely new music , mostly depressing tunes anyway ?

  There is little subtsance lately in the articles, its usually a repetition of certain topics like: how to improve field servcie ? How to avoid satans influence (internet, entertainment, porn, apostate etc) How to behave at meetings, assemblies etc, you name it,

  very rare are indepth discussions , it all remains on the surface, and almost in every article, they contradict themselves or write some really stupid comments.
• 
  65

  So I finished reading the Origin of Species last night.....

  by Mr. Falcon in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  ...oh my.. i am not trying to start a creation vs. evolution debate, but something else really did stand out in my mind upon reading this "infamous" book.

  and that is that the theory of evolution is a very complex and at times, logically interesting theory.

  it makes valid points as well as asking fair and legitimate questions of the theory of creation.

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  inbetween

  very interesting thread. Believe it or not, but my actually first eye-opener to the concept of evolution was during a talk in my kingdomhall.

  The brother, a bright guy with high education (studied at a time, when higher education was viewed a personal matter) explained basically, that evolution does indeed happen and is even observable. However, it is not a concept sufficient to explain the whole origin of things. I personally liked this approach, and I learned more from this talk than from the dozens of other mindless talks being given every weekend.

  Hwoever, for many, this talk was too intellectual, and he was quit critisized for it.

  Of course, the goal of the talk was to strenghten the beleif of a creator, but looking back, it was much closer to the real concept of evolution than the ussual JW reasoning.
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  81

  Here i am....

  by makersmark in

  1. jw
  2. experiences

  here i am - born in truth, hard-core spiritual everything all my life, early reg.pioneer, ms, elder, assembly parts, tour at bethel, etc, married now...... i'm trying to examine jw teachings a little closer...... i've spent the last two weeks reading many many posts, info , references on where ex-jw's are coming from.

  i'm kind of concerned about a few things lately..... honestly - some points make sense to me - some don't - here are my general thoughts:.

  -wt getting un membership for access to library - doesnt bother me - some passports and other governement documents have similar forms and requirements..... -blood issue - some counterpoints to the jw 'rules' makes sense (original intent of scripture is unbled animals, white blood cells similar in mothers milk) etc -however a lot of 'apostate' reasonings and proof are inaccurate.

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  inbetween

  welcome markersmark,

  being here can be the begin of an incredible adventure, opening your mind in a way, unthinkable in witness-org.

  and stay open minded in both ways. When I joined here, it was mostly the blood issue, that bothered me. Sites like www.ajwrb.org have very profound arguments. When I read them the first time, I was very fast convinced, that our blood doctrine has serious flaws. And I always was interested in it, in my hall, it was always me who had to handle the complicated parts on blood, too technical for most. Maybe you can elaborate on what issues apostates are inaccurate regarding the counterarguments on blood-issue ?

  The problem with JW in general, they base many things on the bible, but then go overboard, just like the Pharisees did with the moasic law.

  example: preaching, still I think is a basic requirement for a Christian religion, however, what about giving reports, pioneering, etc

  another example: disfellowshipping, as some posters mentioned, certainly of value in the biblical sense, but JW construct so many rules with it, some even secret, and way too rigid. Some reasons for it even not mentioned in the bible...

  What also shocked me in the beginning was the use of language of some posters here. While I still do not approve of it, I understand, that they suffered a lot from the rigid rules of JW, so for them its like therapy. Now it does not bother me too much anymore.

  Anyway, what I found here, is a forum, where you openly can discuss things, without repurcussions. Something impossible in the congregation without raising red flags.

  and what i like too, sometimes stupid rumours or accusations come up, but this forum helps to quickly dismiss or expose them. Socalled "apostate lies" will not prevail here.

  O f course, some issues are for some important, for others not. When it comes to citing old literatur, I always thought too, ok why bring up old stuff, we revised and know it better now, Gods org is not perfect. And it would not be a problem at all, its actually a sign of humility to change your teaching after finding out its wrong. The problem is, when you start saying, you are the only channel of God, the sheep are not allowed to challenge you, they have to take everything you say as coming from God, and when you finally have to change things, then say it is new light from Jehovah. This is suppressive and deceptive the same time.

  So welcome again, maybe, if you like, you might want to tell a bit about your story ?
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  21

  Song- "we're Jehovah's Witnesses" in honor of this weeks WT study

  by stuckinamovement in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  this was the last song of the service meeting this week.

  the new version sounds like a death march anthem.

  the melody has changed and i think the words have also.. i truly used to like that song and it was one of the first song's i could sing as a kid.

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  inbetween

  I used to actually like this song too, but its true, it is completely lifeless now...