Here i am....

makersmark

Hi All:

Here i am - born in truth, hard-core spiritual everything all my life, early reg.pioneer, MS, elder, assembly parts, tour at bethel, etc, married now.....
I'm trying to examine JW teachings a little closer...... I've spent the last two weeks reading many many posts, info , references on where ex-JW's are coming from. I'm kind of concerned about a few things lately....

Honestly - some points make sense to me - some don't - here are my general thoughts:

-WT getting UN membership for access to library - doesnt bother me - some passports and other governement documents have similar forms and requirements....

-blood issue - some counterpoints to the JW 'rules' makes sense (original intent of scripture is unbled animals, white blood cells similar in mothers milk) etc -however a lot of 'apostate' reasonings and proof are inaccurate

- 587 vs 607 BCE leading to 1914: some points make sense - is there an actual hard and fast proof from a scholarly source of Babylons destuction date? - i've read the KISS method of explaining - to me it's as confusing as what JW's are accused of...

- when a poster uses derogatory word-play on witness terms - what is the purpose? Kingdumb Hell? PLEASE - being offensive and childish is no way to influence a questioning mind. I understand the rage and past hurt but cmon - be mature....

- disfellowshipping - a hot issue - yes it can be a terrible consequence for some people - as an elder i have been involved in DF'ing situations - but honestly, believe it or not - this form of discipline has improved the persons life (turned them around from drug abuse or extreme unprotected sex) - however if DF-ing is misused by imperfect men and a wrong is indeed committed - i can understand the opposition. When i've read thru the many posts discussing DF'ing i have noticed that never is the JW explanation for this practise ever mentioned.......

- constant attacks of old Russell, Rutherford teachings, etc.... using 100 year old watchtower quotes as proof - cmon - i know we celebrated Christmas, I know about the pyramids, i know JW have similar historical roots to other religions - the point is what we believe NOW...Those quotes from 1898 and even some 1930's 1950's quotes - we dont believe either....... dont use antiquated proof - If you want to sway me or other 'doubters' get some actual proof and ill listen.......

- finally - constant attacks on the governing body.... yes i know Knorr, Franz were hard core - I actually met and have close relatives that worked along side of them. Yes they said and did weird things, they got senile but not to the devilish picture that is being painted of them... No one is perfect..... When i was at bethel for a brief time - it was amazing, loving - not really the same story that experience after experience in these forums show...

Saying that - i do realize that people have got the shaft as a witness, i understand their pain and actually feel quite bad - I'm trying to be a loving shepard, imitating good qualites of the scriptures - i cant help think why bad things happen to good people even in my organization.....

Finally - the 1995 and 2010 changes about generations really really bothers me - scriptures dont say "and this overlapping generation will by no means pass away". Im scared crapless about this - all concept of armagedon coming is changed and not many of my fellow bros and sisters even realized this? am i wrong?

There you have it folks - my mind is critically open to you - hit me with proof.........

yesidid

when a poster uses derogatory word-play on witness terms - what is the purpose? Kingdumb Hell? PLEASE - being offensive and childish is no way to influence a questioning mind. I understand the rage and past hurt but cmon - be mature....

I agree with you . There is no need to be so childish.............there was a thread about that recently.........many others agree with you, and me,

so welcome.

y

d

I agree childshness is unacceptable. But their is alot of proof of what went on in the past.For me it was 1975 and of course the stuff about Nathan Knorr and Fred Franz.Again welcome to the forum.

d

leavingwt

hit me with proof.........

Welcome. Have you read any Apostate books?

If not, our perspective will remain (mostly) incomprehensible to you.

3Mozzies

Welcome

Finally - the 1995 and 2010 changes about generations really really bothers me - scriptures dont say "and this overlapping generation will by no means pass away". Im scared crapless about this - all concept of armagedon coming is changed and not many of my fellow bros and sisters even realized this? am i wrong?

Is connected to this ↓

- 587 vs 607 BCE leading to 1914: some points make sense - is there an actual hard and fast proof from a scholarly source of Babylons destruction date? - i've read the KISS method of explaining - to me it's as confusing as what JW's are accused of...

Think about it . . .

3M

wasblind

" Finally - the 1995 and 2010 changes about generations really really bothers me "

There's hope for you your eyes are opening

Welcome

cyberjesus

welcome fellow human being :) in this forum no one is trying to sway you in any direction, we all are because like we found things that didnt make sense and there was no logical explanation for it... and like you we researched and took personal decision based on that. i would suggest to start reading Crisis of Consience first.. in it you will find lots of information and many many answers directky from a former member of Gb.. you must be aware that there is a reason why reading this wesite is a df offense. and that in itself is one of the secrecy rules of the organization we claim that the wt is more than just mislead religion but a mind controlled cult. we dont believe the meeting place is any hall of any kingdom rather a place where the minds of people are being dumbed down.. once againg welcome but be aware once you start finding the truth about the truth there is no going back

SweetBabyCheezits

Welcome to the board, MakersMark. Good name.

If you're looking for information that is more factual and less emotionally-charged, please try www.jwfacts.com. Honestly, a great many folks on this board speak in anger and frustration. That's understandable. Their emotions (and I speak for myself here, too) bleed through, no doubt because they're not allowed to say anything regarding how they feel to their JW family and friends.

Regarding the blood issue, I highly recommend you review the Jensen letters. The logic and reason are undeniable.

For the 587 vs 607 BCE chronology issue, I suggest you order and read The Gentile Times Reconsidered. (Coincidentally, that issue posed the greatest problem for me as I stumbled over it when preparing for the Daniel's Prophecy bookstudy in 2005.)

I agree with you and yesidid on the word-play. Apparently, a couple of folks here who have seniority have developed a reputation using it and so it stuck. It's not for me and I don't think it helps critical thinking JWs at all but apparently it is therapeutic to some on here. Bear in mind, there's a lot of emotional baggage being carried by some members. It's easy to call them immature but perhaps if you walked in their shoes, their word-play would be considered a mild reaction.

Disfellowshipping... if you wish, take a look at the reasons my wife and I were disfellowshipped and tell me why it isn't heinous that I can no longer speak to my family. Then tell me how many acts of injustice it takes to deem a dogmatic policy.... immoral?

Old teachings were ridiculous, yes? So if holy spirit wasn't directing Russell to... say... use pyramid dimensions in his chronology, then who was? Or what agent of the almight influenced the governing body to understand that vaccines and organ transplants were inappropriate for Christians, only to reverse their thinking later? And what has changed since then? Also, the WT has no problem slinging mud at other religions, like the Catholic church, noting some of it's antiquated and evolving teachings. How about some consistent scrutiny here?

As for the governing body, you mention, "No one is perfect." True. But how many leaders are holding themselves up as God's sole channel of communication? To me, anyone who makes such claims deserves to be judged by a higher standard. If they don't want to be judged under the microscope, perhaps they should get off the slide.

Good call on recognizing the "generations" issue for what it is.

Again, jwfacts.com is a great source for the information you seek.

Best of luck fortune to you and, again, welcome to the board.

SBC

Queequeg

Hey,

Welcome! Have you taken a look at jwfacts.com yet?

wasblind

" constant attacks of old Russell, Rutherford teachings, etc.... using 100 year old watchtower quotes as proof - cmon - i know we celebrated Christmas, I know about the pyramids, i know JW have similar historical roots to other religions - the point is what we believe NOW...Those quotes from 1898 and even some 1930's 1950's quotes - we dont believe either....... dont use antiquated proof - If you want to sway me or other 'doubters' get some actual proof and ill listen....... "

If you don't mind I would like to make reference to a book that is still in use by Jehovah's Witnesses and it has something to do in regards

to the generation of 1914. All through out the Reasoning Book it specifically refers to the generation that was alive in 1914, and on page

234 under the heading of Last Days it states that "some of the generation alive then will be on hand to see the end. " they did not

say might or maybe they used the word will which made it an absolute thing that would happen.

Here i am....

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