inbetween

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Posts by inbetween

• 
  143

  What's the saddest movie you've ever seen?

  by JimmyPage in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  i'm asking because i just watched "the road".

  it may not be the saddest but it's up there.

  "my sister's keeper" was a real tearjerker too..

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  inbetween

  gladiator !

  big part played the music, IMO...
• 
  29

  Loyalty Keeps Us Morally Clean

  by sd-7 in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  a rebellion had begun.

  in moses' absence, the israelites built a golden calf and engaged in idolatrous reveling.

  the clamor of their immoral festivities was clearly identifiable as improper.

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  inbetween

  haha, its great sd-7

  I wonder, if you print it out, and show a dub, they would not recognize it as fake, just say, its from the newest edition of Dec 15 2010 !!

  they would swallow it, certainly....
• 
  39

  To serving elders and anyone else who went to the SM this week ...

  by wannabefree in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  jw serving elders ... did any of you have to handle the part at the sm this week on why jehovah's witnesses are not a false prophet?.

  this part made me livid.

  our most corporate elder handled this part and i felt my self wanting to refute everything he said.

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  inbetween

  elderelite: Thanks you saved some time for me , since I wanted to research this topic...

  I heard, some were a bit confused about the fact, that our MS called JW as prophets in a sense, so maybe I can help some to start thinking a bit.

  babysteps, you know....
• 
  39

  To serving elders and anyone else who went to the SM this week ...

  by wannabefree in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  jw serving elders ... did any of you have to handle the part at the sm this week on why jehovah's witnesses are not a false prophet?.

  this part made me livid.

  our most corporate elder handled this part and i felt my self wanting to refute everything he said.

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  inbetween

  we had an MS handling it, even touched on subjects like 1975...of course was not a false prophecy, just wrong expactations...

  For me it was never really a problem, that 1975 was wrong, mistakes can happen, however, what bothered me always, is that they tried to blame the "normal" brothers, and long time denied responsibility of the org !

  striking though is the false analogy: appstles asking when the time will come compared to claiming of JW that the end will come 1914, 1925, 1975...and demanding their followers to stop getting education, good job etc....
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  25

  They didnt leave because of doctrine-they left BECAUSE OF THEMSELVES!

  by Joliette in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  this is an actually quote made by a district overseer at a convention in dekalb illinois in august of 2008...yep, no joking, swear on a holy bible...he actually said that.

  just thought about the quote and thought i should post it to share it with the fellow 'apostates' (sarcasm)..

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  inbetween

  intersting thread.

  when I was fully in, I always thought, even unrepentant sinners ( wrong conduct) must have lost their faith, otherwise their course is suicidal. My conclusion (in opposite to the qouted CO) was, and interstingly is even more so now, that most who get dfd, even for behaviour reasons, in fact lost their faith (meaning faith in WTS) before that.

  Those who merely succumbed to weakness will seek to get away with reprove.
• 
  97

  Beware of the Strawman argument!

  by Farkel in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  years ago before i took the time and effort to study logic and argumentation, i went to a market and bought some toothpaste.

  it was a little-known brand and it touted "baking soda" as its magic ingredient.

  it was also cheaper than the name-brand toothpastes and that helped me in my decision.

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  inbetween

  debator, either you dont understand or dont want ot understand, I have not figured that out yet.

  anyway, there are plenty examples here, were official WTS teaching is either not supported by the bible or represents distortet biblical explanations.

  you want examples ?

  just a few at the top of my head:

  WT says :never question the FDS - bible says: Gal 1:8, Acts 17:11 etc

  WT says: 1914 Gods kingdom in heaven(due to whacky chronology) - bible says: Acts 1:6,7

  WT says: birthday reason for dfd - bible says: Romans 14:5,6

  much more here on JWN or here: www.jwfacts.com

  well researched, and documented.

  btw, you did not cite any specific proof of your statement, that witnesses teach more accurate than any other religion, either.

  My little dialogue should only mirror your post, just from the opposite site, showing that both, witnesses and ex-witnesses often use strawman arguments. However, according to my experience, its more often used by witnesses.

  Thats how we are trained, for example, if someone asks, if we would let our children rather die than accept blood transfusion, the answer is: Blood is dangerous and there are other safer methods, and so on,....a typical strawman.

  And dont say, we dont do that, because me and other witnesses (ex-JW here can testify too) used exactly this strategy...
• 
  97

  Beware of the Strawman argument!

  by Farkel in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  years ago before i took the time and effort to study logic and argumentation, i went to a market and bought some toothpaste.

  it was a little-known brand and it touted "baking soda" as its magic ingredient.

  it was also cheaper than the name-brand toothpastes and that helped me in my decision.

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  inbetween

  for debator:

  me (conscious class)´: the WTS teaches XYZ, while the bible says here ABC

  (fanatic) witness: but here another scripture says XYZ

  me: but the context of this scripture gives a different idea

  witness: maybe, however, the FDS is Gods chosen channel, they know what is right

  me: ok, but can they overstep scriptures ?

  witness: no, all they teach is according to scripture

  me: ok, so why is this scripture I showed you, not in line with WTS teaching ?

  witness: you sound like an apostate, where did you get your idea ?

  me: does it matter ? I just want to know, why WTS contradicts this scriptures

  witness: we must never question Gods channel...

  me: how to we know its Gods channel ?

  witness: what ? of course the WTS is Gods channel, they have been teaching us the truth

  me: what is truth ?

  witness: hmm, everything in line with Gods word

  me: okay, so why is then claim XYZ not in line with Gods word?

  witness: the FDS warns us about independent thinking, trust them, not apostate ideas, or God will destroy you in A., period...I´m telling on you now...
• 
  3

  Organized Social Entertainment

  by Bangalore in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  from the august 1960 issue of the kingdom ministry.. organized social entertainment.. 1 from one locality it is reported that there is a regular arranging of social events, not at the kingdom hall where such sociabilities are prohibited, but in halls rented on the outside, and that to these events the brothers of not only one congregation but of others in the vicinity are invited.

  the motive for holding these parties is set forth as being to enable particularly the young folk of the congregations to get better acquainted with one another.

  in one district there seems to be a trend in this direction of holding large-scale social affairs, ostensibly to increase inter-congregational acquaintanceship and to enjoy together several hours of relaxation and and to do so in a safe way so that no worldliness or no worldly elements insinuate themselves.. 2 the brothers responsible for such social gatherings on a large scale try to rationalize in behalf of the propriety of holding such social events.

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  inbetween

  great find,

  so really, always the same old, same old....

  it seems like an endless cycle of ups und downs,

  prizeless the argument in par. 6:

  "The place for thus gathering together all the more so because the day is drawing near is the Kingdom Hall, where all those attending service centers during the week may gather"

  50 years ago !!!
• 
  10

  so on the "up" side...

  by elderelite in

  1. jw
  2. experiences

  its a "worldly" holiday and both my daughter and i are at home, not in service.

  i got up, made us breakfast, (sausage and eggs) and now i'm playing on jw net.. on the downside, my wife and son are out in service and i have to sit down and put together my service groups time and turn that in to the secretary... (although my son didnt want to go.. he complained "cant we just have a chill day".. i was going to let him stay home but he changed his mind to go see a friend who said he was also going out...).

  all you active jw's... did you or are you going out..or are you ditching?.

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  inbetween

  no service this weekend, we went shopping instead.....even though I dont know whats worse, field circus or shoe shopping with my wife
• 
  97

  Beware of the Strawman argument!

  by Farkel in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  years ago before i took the time and effort to study logic and argumentation, i went to a market and bought some toothpaste.

  it was a little-known brand and it touted "baking soda" as its magic ingredient.

  it was also cheaper than the name-brand toothpastes and that helped me in my decision.

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  inbetween

  very good story, thanks,

  however, I try to figure out the difference between a "strawman" and a "red hering".

  Is your story not rather a "red hering" ? Since the dentists might well be from the 3rd world countires, however, the real issue was, if baking soda is a good thing for cleaning teeth. So he led you on the wrong track, which a red hering is supposed to do.

  quote Wikipedia:

  Red herring

  . A "red herring" is a deliberate attempt to divert a process of enquiry by changing the subject.

  in opposite to a "strawman"

  The straw man fallacy occurs in the following pattern of argument:

  1. Person A has position X.
  2. Person B disregards certain key points of X and instead presents the superficially-similar position Y. Thus, Y is a resulting distorted version of X and can be set up in several ways, including:
  3. Presenting a misrepresentation of the opponent's position and then refuting it, thus giving the appearance that the opponent's actual position has been refuted. [ 1 ]
  4. Quoting an opponent's words out of context – i.e. choosing quotations that misrepresent the opponent's actual intentions (see contextomy and quote mining). [ 2 ]
  5. Presenting someone who defends a position poorly as the defender, then refuting that person's arguments – thus giving the appearance that every upholder of that position (and thus the position itself) has been defeated. [ 1 ]
  6. Inventing a fictitious persona with actions or beliefs which are then criticized, implying that the person represents a group of whom the speaker is critical.
  7. Oversimplifying an opponent's argument, then attacking this oversimplified version.
  8. Person B attacks position Y, concluding that X is false/incorrect/flawed.

  In your case, if the dentist said, that some claim, baking soda is the best for "whitening" teeth (which you did not say, you said "cleaning" ), and then refutes this claim, this would be a strawman according to my understanding.

  Sorry, no offense, i just try to understand logical fallacies myself.

  However, i totally agree, the WTS uses both fallacies regularly, and sadly also most witnesses learned how to apply this dishonsest methods, even though they are not aware of it. which is even worse, because they deceive themselves (I did too before !)

  inbetween