Posts by Atomahawk

43

What do you think will happen to cause an exodus or at least push JWs into further obscurity?

by the_dude_abides in

i believe someday it will be as obscure and strange as say the russelites.

the meetings will only be attended by ppl over sixty or so and it will hardly be considered anywhere near as significant a religion as it is today.

i wonder what will begin this process.

Atomahawk

Here’s a few counter questions to “What do you think will happen to cause an exodus or at least push JWs into further obscurity?” Why is this important to so many of us that have been in this religion? Vengeance? The warm cozy feeling that others won’t get duped? Saving others? At the end of the day if this religion fails, what will it matter? Most will flock to some other religion in an attempt to be enlightened anyway. And if they don’t they will still believe in some form of all mighty creator, keeping the invisible shackles, because false hope is better than no hope for most humans. Religion and god is a tool used by the elite class of this world to keep us subjugated and ignorant. The sooner we understand this as a species the faster we will concentrate our efforts on making governments, large corporations and the elite class accountable for the demise of humanity’s right to be treated as equals, with the right to have clean water to drink, clean air to breath, and food that isn’t poisoned by chemical products that cause more disease than nutritional value, a monetary system that is equal for all, opportunity to be educated for everyone, a true and honest legal system that protects and serves ALL peoples and a medical system that serves mankind instead of large corporations. While we’re house cleaning, in my book god had his chance, it’s time to rethink religion and make them accountable for spreading false truths and beliefs in entities that do not exist and has kept us in the dark ages. Organized religion needs to be banished, if individuals want to keep there beliefs, so be it, it’s there right, but organized religion needs to be banned. When humans actually stop identifying themselves as believers, they will start looking for solutions that actually get things done. The fantasy ride needs to end sometime, our existence as a species on this planet demands this.

My opinion

11

Did GB Karl Klein really say that?

by sacolton in

governing body member, karl klein, uttered these words at a convention:.

"if jehovah doesn't do something soon, he's going to have to apologize to sodam and gommorrah.".

geez!.

Atomahawk

"If Jehovah doesn't do something soon, He's going to have to apologize to Sodam and Gommorrah."

That is very funny considering they never aplogize for any of their own mistakes.

1

Old Men

by Yizuman in

you're not sam.

sam just died.".

"it's me, sam!".

Atomahawk

Good one

32

Amarillo City Representatives Went to Bethel--Look what they said...

by CrimsonBleu in

jw
friends

this email came from my sister.

i copied and pasted as is.

i'd like to reply with a comment to my sis, but maybe better keep quiet.... .

Atomahawk

Most large cities and states have people responsible for increasing tourism and business investments and it’s nothing new or special. Of course the WTS would actually spin this in a manner that would make it sound as if they were very special and important, flattering the ego is a mainstay of the organization. In my area we have one of the largest and best organized gay pride parades in the world, it brings in 10’s of millions in tourism dollars every year, if those same officials went to see the organizers I’m certain they would be very impressed and would say exactly the same thing "We feel you people should be placed in charge of the US government and in six months you would have the problems, including the economy fixed."

You have to be really naïve to believe a complement is sincere when there’s money at stake.

148

"Remember, nobody can REALLY love you unless they know and love Jehovah first."

by AllTimeJeff in

"unless they know and love jehovah first.

they love "jehovah".

they discuss how to make sure that though they are in charge, everyone doesn't see them, they see the great and powerful jehovah.... oh.

Atomahawk

“that being married to a non-jw was kissing a corpse” Talk about your major “foot in the mouth moment” LOL. I’ll bet a good 25% of the sisters married to JW husbands were saying exactly the same thing about their own husbands.

Sorry I just couldn't resist!

148

"Remember, nobody can REALLY love you unless they know and love Jehovah first."

by AllTimeJeff in

"unless they know and love jehovah first.

they love "jehovah".

they discuss how to make sure that though they are in charge, everyone doesn't see them, they see the great and powerful jehovah.... oh.

Atomahawk

What’s really sad is the manipulation of a basic human feeling like love and spinning it to favor their close minded attitude towards the rest of the world.. Any thinking and feeling human being be it a JW or not shouldn’t accept such a narrow minded point of view, to do so is to allow others to control all aspects of your being. Even if the intentions is to protect the organization it’s going way to far.

Something I thought of: When I left the JW’s, did that automatically nullify the love I had for my wife? After all I did stop loving Jehovah!

148

"Remember, nobody can REALLY love you unless they know and love Jehovah first."

by AllTimeJeff in

"unless they know and love jehovah first.

they love "jehovah".

they discuss how to make sure that though they are in charge, everyone doesn't see them, they see the great and powerful jehovah.... oh.

Atomahawk

My Bad, LOL

148

"Remember, nobody can REALLY love you unless they know and love Jehovah first."

by AllTimeJeff in

"unless they know and love jehovah first.

they love "jehovah".

they discuss how to make sure that though they are in charge, everyone doesn't see them, they see the great and powerful jehovah.... oh.

Atomahawk

Alltimejim, unfortunately people get very worked up about religion, personal beliefs and convictions, which generally turn into emotional arguments. Which is normal considering religion and faith almost always rely on emotions to gather their followers. It seems that many have a difficult time balancing feelings with intelligence and logic.

Back to the discussion: The claim made by the GB “ nobody can REALLY love you unless they know and love Jehovah first” is a distorted view of the essence of love itself. Consider the following, how many humans have sacrificed their own lives so another person whom they love can live? A mother or father dies to save their child in an accident, A husband knowingly sacrifices his own well being to save his wife etc. Humans sacrifice themselves for others they claim to love in numerous manners that prove that they do not need a god to love. What’s even more interesting in this, they do this without knowledge of the “true god” as the GB would call him.

They have no heavenly hope, they have no hope in a resurrection etc. which in itself would be a powerful motivator in any action that leads to their demise. I can certainly understand someone saying “I love my god so much that I will lay down my life for him” Would you under the following condition, No resurrection, no heaven, no 70 virgins, no reincarnation etc?

One really has to question the motives of the GB when making such a bold and obviously inaccurate statement regarding love and it’s true meaning.

25

Letter sufficient grounds for DFing?

by dozy in

jw
friends

a question here mainly for ex-elders etc , though all input would be helpful.. a letter that i wrote some time ago confidentially to an elder regarding the usual issues about the gb etc has come into the hands of a couple of members of the congregation who are regarding it a prime facie evidence that i am an apostate.

though the letter isn't especially incriminating as such , it does flag up several mistakes that the wtbts has made.

the brother has described me as "verging on apostate.".

Atomahawk

As already mentioned it depends on the tone of the letter. Without actually reading it, it’s very difficult to determine if it’s in form that accuses or questions. The original readers intelligence, vocabulary and comprehension can also be a determining factor as how it can be interpreted.

You say it was confidential, Who was the letter addressed to? 1) This particular elder? 2) All congregation elders? 3)The congregation as a whole?

If your letter starts with Dear brother X, this letter assumes privacy for all intended purposes, unless specifically indicated within the body of the letter to the contrary. If this is the case then I can say without a doubt that he showing this letter or quoting this to anyone is a breach of elder confidentiality. In a mature congregation this would not only be frowned upon by the body of elders, but I can assure you if it came to be known by the CO this particular elder would be in some serious hot water and would most likely be removed as an elder. An elders prime responsibility is to shepherd, assist and protect each individual within the congregation. He also has the responsibility of protecting the congregation from apostasy or seditious behavior. You state that “Instead he has told his wife & daughter and virtually everybody else of my "unsound views."” Are you 100% certain of this? If so I would request a meeting with rest of the elders without him being present so you may explain the situation to them. If they deny your request I would encourage you to write a letter to the elders specifically outlining all events and CC the CO. By being upfront, you show yourself to be honest and sincere in your quest to further your spirituality and are honestly only attempting to fortify your faith. Hiding assumes shame and bad intentions and this you want to avoid at all cost.

I hope you didn’t share your questions or point of views regarding this situation with others within the congregation? If so it can get very nasty and most likely you will be reprimanded.

148

"Remember, nobody can REALLY love you unless they know and love Jehovah first."

by AllTimeJeff in

"unless they know and love jehovah first.

they love "jehovah".

they discuss how to make sure that though they are in charge, everyone doesn't see them, they see the great and powerful jehovah.... oh.

Atomahawk

Alltimejim: Thanks for the expose, a worthy read and well outlined.

The only thing that I wonder about though is this, do you believe that they (GB) actually intentionally manipulate people to this degree? The reason I ask is it’s very hard to fathom that they are this intelligent and shrewd to influence people too this level.

I’m sure you understand that your suggesting they consciously and intentionally manipulate emotions to keep and grow their ranks. We have to be honest here, can they be that wicked and ill-intentioned? If so we have to give them credit for the extreme creativity in wording things just right to pressure followers into believing they are the light so to speak. If this be the case, one has to wonder why? You yourself say they “are small time” and will most likely stay this way. Seems to me they are using a lot of mental resources and energy to develop something that in the end won’t amount to much.

I am going to assume that these men are actually sincere and do believe what they preach and they themselves are so brainwashed with delusions of grandeur that they are no longer able to distinguish truth and reality. Psychologically speaking this is pretty scary stuff.