Posts by dgp

16

Interesting Thought about JW's and People Outside the Org

by Mrs. Witness in

on another thread, aude sapeare said:.

jws make this huge assumption that once you leave the 'protection' of the org, you will go off the deep end and become totally irresponsible, drink, smoke, do drugs and have sex with anyone and anything.. that is what i have been fighting with my husband about for 3 years now.

when he was kicked out of his jw's mom's house when he was 15, that is exactly what he did for about 20 years.

dgp

I agree that this is a case of hard-core indoctrination. Mr. Witness fails to see the good in others, and he also fails to see the bad in himself or the people in his organization. This is what he has been conditioned to see, and that is what he sees.

However, as Lenin would say, "facts are stubborn" (as stubborn as Lenin himself, who never saw the light). At some point he will have to realize that he lives in inconsistency. He knows full well that you're a good woman, only he does not want to recognize that.

You don't have to prove to us unbelievers, or to JWs, that people can lead very good and moral lives without being witnesses. The problem is him, and how he refuses to see reality. He's in that box and can't leave it.

I very much like the post by Wobble, particularly the part about "They have so little faith in their own strength of character , that they need the discipline of something like the JW cult to hold them to the straight and narrow." This is perhaps the point.

The next time he tells you something in the like, tell him that you're bored of hearing the same "holier than thou" stuff, and that he might keep his feelings of superiority to himself. Tell him that you know him all too well to think he's perfect, yet you don't rub it in his face.

20

The movie "2012." Has everyone turned dub?

by parakeet in

has anyone else seen the preview ads for the movie "2012"?

it's like wt armageddon illustrations come to life (except that everyone's not dressed like it's still the 1950s).. what's the deal with the year 2012?

i thought it was just a dub thing.. .

dgp

If it's any consolation, people, I DID get rid of my small, preciously hard to find rubber Smurf when I heard it was diabolical. I was so scared. I didn't suspect what the source of that "piece of information" was until now. It makes me feel so bad about myself. And, please, remember I'm not and have never been a JW.

20

The movie "2012." Has everyone turned dub?

by parakeet in

has anyone else seen the preview ads for the movie "2012"?

it's like wt armageddon illustrations come to life (except that everyone's not dressed like it's still the 1950s).. what's the deal with the year 2012?

i thought it was just a dub thing.. .

dgp

The Aztecs used to sacrify people because they believed that their gods were whimsical, and nobody knew just when they would no longer be in the mood of letting the world continue to exist. They borrowed the Mayan calendar, the most precise ever, because they wanted to keep a precise count of exactly which god was keeping the world alive at a given moment, so they would not upset that god by sacrifying blood to another deity. And, the aztecs believed that the last five days of each year were also bad days, and the gods could just become upset at that particular time.

The Spanish found it easy to conquer the Aztecs, among other things, because the Aztecs had a prophecy about white men who would return by the time the world would be over. Many Aztecs fought the Spanish as a way to die without taking their lives by themselves. And, the diseases the Spanish took there, which spread so much because the Aztecs had no resistance to them, made them believe the world was indeed over.

These guys weren't even Christian. In fact, they very much resisted Christianity, and, to this day, they have their own particular beliefs. Those which, by the way, the Watchtower would consider "pagan". Because they are pagan, indeed.

Now, if you believe that rain comes from the fact that a god breaks a vase full of water, I am sure you will find it easy to believe in their particular concept of the existence of the universe.

Any similarities?

I believe that it's human nature to fear our own end, and to have questions about what keeps the world going and whether it will ever stop. That is why these kind of things sell.

20

The movie "2012." Has everyone turned dub?

by parakeet in

has anyone else seen the preview ads for the movie "2012"?

it's like wt armageddon illustrations come to life (except that everyone's not dressed like it's still the 1950s).. what's the deal with the year 2012?

i thought it was just a dub thing.. .

dgp

It's not only Jehovah's witnesses who think that the end of the world is coming. All Christians do; the difference is, how. Our civilization has a very strong Christian component to it. We have followed Christian religions for so long that some of those teachings are inside of us without us realizing of it. The idea about "the end of the world" is always there.

I am not a JW and never will be one, and still I can remember how I felt when I was like 13 and people told me the world would end by the time I were 25. Or how the Antichrist would be born in 1966 and would be released from his chains by 1999, the year when the world would end. Here we are, ten years after that supposed date. The difference for me is, I didn't make my life depend on that lie.

41

I remember thinking 'why would I want anyone to change from being in the world to a JW?'

by jambon1 in

jw
friends

did anyone else feel this way & if so, at what stage in your time as a jw?.

i remember i must have been in the org for about 6 or 7 years.

i was always trying to be the life & soul of the cong.

dgp

Some people want to join the JW because witnesses appear as pure, harder working, more moral than most of us. A non-JW believes that he might have finally found someone he can really trust. Kingdom Halls are clean, and the people seem friendly. And they seem to have an answer for everything in life.

Most of us are religious because our parents superficially taught us what we were meant to believe. This is not a real faith. It is, at best, a series of habits, such as reading the horoscope. We grow believing that our religious organization has all the truth, and we are shocked to discover that it is not so, that every religious organization has some things that just don't add up. JWs do seem to have a purpose in life. They seem to offer true friendship. So, some of us become irreligious and then these people come and offer a very tightly knit body of doctrine.

Also, some people indeed WANT someone else to think for themselves. They want to belong to something greater, and the Witnesses seem to offer that.

I believe that only very few would join the religion if they had all of the information. We believe you are happy people. We don't know to what extent you are controlled.

There is a reason why I myself considered joining. That reason was, that I love someone who is in. I felt it was nice to get to know her. I found that, the more I learned about her beliefs, the more I could understand her, and her "funny" ways.

I would like to add that it seems so sad that someone would continue to work from door to door, and to try to convert anyone, just because he can't escape the organization if he wants to still talk to his children or wife.

The one person who IS guilty, in my eyes, is the one who continues to try to convince people of something he no longer believes, when this someone COULD leave the organization but doesn't.

35

All right, do JW's REALLY do not marry outside of their faith?

by dgp in

jw
friends

i've been a lurker in this site for some time.

i am not a jehovah's witness, but was here because i wanted to know more about the organization, since i am in love with a jw woman.

she recently rejected me, on the grounds that "she would not risk her relationship with jehovah for someone who would die in (snap fingers)".

dgp

I very much appreciate all yours posts. I am starting to figure out what is on her mind. can sort of take one thing from one and the other and figure out what is on her mind, which is what I want. I agree with Yknot in that she's spoken her honest mind. I find WT Wizard's post very enlightening. One big conclusion I derive from that is that, in the end, it wouldn't even be for the two of us to decide whether we would be together or not. And that makes it very difficult, from several angles. Is it worth to convert for her, or to go through the motions, when I wouldn't be allowed to be with her anyways? From her point of view, does it make any sense to suffer a loss in her standing in the congregation, knowing, as she knows, that this would be the case? She divorced recently; but I have known her for years and she's been coming closer to me in the last two years. So she knows who I am. Would I be the same person if I were a devout witness? Would I be able to really make it as a witness? All that must weight in her decision, too.

If I became a witness for her, I would be in the same kind of trap as many people who post here, or lurk here. I would be in the religion for the sake of my love for someone. What about my relatives, none of whom is a witness? What about my own friends?

Which brings me to another question, if anyone is willing to post more. What role could I play, then? Run for the hills? It does not seem a good moral option. I know the pain and the problems she goes through. I know she could be disfellowshipped in the future anyways. All of her friends and family, all the people she has let in, are witnesses. What would happen to her then?

People, I need the enlightenment. I know you all mean good, to me and to her, when you tell me to run away. I will have to move on and love someone else. It is not easy; when a mere mortal loves a witness, and he understands what she goes through, he loves harder. This is not just about feeling her kisses or sleeping with her. This is about agape, you know? I know you all will understand that word. I told her that was how I loved her, and it is true.

Please, continue to post your ideas.

35

All right, do JW's REALLY do not marry outside of their faith?

by dgp in

jw
friends

i've been a lurker in this site for some time.

i am not a jehovah's witness, but was here because i wanted to know more about the organization, since i am in love with a jw woman.

she recently rejected me, on the grounds that "she would not risk her relationship with jehovah for someone who would die in (snap fingers)".

dgp

Thanks for your words, bluecanary. Yes, finally I decided to make use of the board. I'm a little embarrassed with you, but that will pass, too.

I also believe what you say. She's finding herself as well, after the divorce.

I am with YKNOT and you, Bluecanary, in saying that it's best if I give up. As a person. I am afraid she will be in serious trouble in a short time, and she might well be in need of a worldly person.

I am still open to new opinions, if anyone wants to take the time to do that at all.

35

All right, do JW's REALLY do not marry outside of their faith?

by dgp in

jw
friends

i've been a lurker in this site for some time.

i am not a jehovah's witness, but was here because i wanted to know more about the organization, since i am in love with a jw woman.

she recently rejected me, on the grounds that "she would not risk her relationship with jehovah for someone who would die in (snap fingers)".

dgp

Just for information:

Children would be out of the question. She's 45 and her youngest child is 20. I always knew we wouldn't have children if we made it.

I know about disfellowshipping and what it entails. I just wondered whether marrying me would really bring disfellowshipping, or what. It would be serious trouble, now I know.

We were not in a committed relationship. I met her when she was very unhappily married. Later, she obtained a scriptural divorce. She was married to an elder who had a mistress, and the man lost everything, it seems. I assume she got the information to get the divorce, which also means she told the other elders about it.

We became closer and closer, sentimentally, and I could see that something was bringing her to me but something else was pushing her away. It seems it was not an easy fight to fight.

I accepted going to a Kingdom Hall with her, and went there as respectfully as possible, with a tie and all. I have taken her literature and discussed it frankly, though I know that I won't convert, on a principle, and on the basis of the information I have, for example from this site. On a principle, because you should not accept a religion only because you happen to like the woman's bosom, but because you think it is right, and that I know the religion is not (with my excuses to the active JWs who think otherwise). She knows I wouldn't mind her being religious. She knows I'm an atheist, sometimes half religious, but knows I don't oppose her faith.

Oompa, I always like you! Yes, I would very much like to do as you suggest. I don't think I would ever get a chance, however, as she wouldn't do such a thing. And maybe I wouldn't, either. It would feel like forcing her to come my way, and that would not be a solid foundation for a relationship. Just as I would need to go to her on my own, she would need to come to me on her own, fully convinced that this is what she wants. I know this is not what she wants, after all is said and done.

I don't think she played with me. I believe she did like me, and let herself get carried away for some time.

Angel Eyes, I understand what you say. But I will beg to disagree this time. It's not a loving thing to consider another person unworthy of marriage just because he doesn't happen to share your beliefs. I know where JW's conclude this from, but, still, I don't think it is right. It is an extreme of sectarianism, in my way of thinking: "us" and "them". But I respect your point of view.

I want to hear more from people who would want to give their opinions. Thank you!

35

All right, do JW's REALLY do not marry outside of their faith?

by dgp in

jw
friends

i've been a lurker in this site for some time.

i am not a jehovah's witness, but was here because i wanted to know more about the organization, since i am in love with a jw woman.

she recently rejected me, on the grounds that "she would not risk her relationship with jehovah for someone who would die in (snap fingers)".

dgp

I appreciate the answers I have received. I assume, then, that a single JW woman would only marry a non-JW if she thought she would win more by marrying him than by staying single. I suppose the same would be true of a 45 year old divorced woman, born in the Watchtower.

If anyone wishes to say more in this regard, please do so.

I believe that, therefore, a JW of either sex falling for a non-JW, flirting, even having a relationship, and then feeling guilt and ending the thing because "not wanting to risk the relationship with Jehovah" can somehow be expected?

Thank you all.

35

All right, do JW's REALLY do not marry outside of their faith?

by dgp in

jw
friends

i've been a lurker in this site for some time.

i am not a jehovah's witness, but was here because i wanted to know more about the organization, since i am in love with a jw woman.

she recently rejected me, on the grounds that "she would not risk her relationship with jehovah for someone who would die in (snap fingers)".

dgp

I've been a lurker in this site for some time. I am not a Jehovah's witness, but was here because I wanted to know more about the organization, since I am in love with a JW woman. She recently rejected me, on the grounds that "she would not risk her relationship with Jehovah for someone who would die in (snap fingers)". I know this is hopeless, but I would like to know something, just for me to judge better: Is is really true that JW's don't marry outside of their faith? I happen to have a friend who did marry a JW woman, though she is not yet baptized. So, can you people shed light on this?