Posts by dgp

Leslie Usry, I had my time at a Kingdom Hall as well. I decided NOT to become a witness, with good reason, in my humble opinion. I know full well that all we can tell you is to do your research, and, as someone said, to do real RESEARCH, not just taking what the witnesses will give you and accept it as truth. That is not real faith, but mere credulity, you know?

It is true that the witnesses do tell you a few things that are correct. However, they are not the only ones who would tell you that. Atheists have always said Jesus was not born on December 25, and it seems to me that this is not reason enough to become an atheist, is it?

I'm happy, however, that you came to JWN. Real research is never done by asking an interested party what he thinks about himself, or by hearing only one group say the things it holds true. Real research is done by including those who are against the organization, because it is them who will let you know what's wrong with it. You can't expect an elder to tell you anything is the matter with his own organization.

I suggest that you read Crisis of Conscience, In Search of Christian Freedom, by Ray Franz, and Releasing the Bonds, by Steven Hassan. I also suggest that you spend some time in this forum, www.freeminds.org and jwfacts.com. If you are really into research, buy yourself The Gentile Times reconsidered, by Carl Olof Jolsson. It will give you a different perspective on things.

In here you will read lots of stories about how and why the organization damages people and how and why it does not have the truth. I was where you are now, and I know what I'm talking about. But I know you have to find out by yourself. Do it.

Have you tried looking at Gary Neal's channel on You Tube? It has very good information.

It is easy to like the simplicity and the cleanness of a Kingdom Hall. My understanding, however, is that the people in the congregation pay for it. I read somewhere that a congregation built a Kingdom Hall on a loan from the organization, which they dutifully paid back, just to find that the Hall was then the property of the organization. That is to say, the organization earned money as interest on the credit, and then it also kept the hall. When I think that, then a Kingdom Hall does not seem like a good thing to look at. By the way, is the value of a religion to be determined by their houses of worship? If it is, then I will be a fervent Catholic because I haven't seen any house of worship better than St. Peters. Just imagine... it was made by Michaelangelo...

Have these friendly people told you that they expect you to give up all your non-JW friends and relatives?

If you can get yourself "The Orwellian World of Jehovah's Witnesses" you will get a hands-on description of how the organization works. Ever heard about Stalinist Russia? East Germany? That's exactly how the religion works.

But, don't take my word for it. Check by yourself.

20

Was there one single thing that told you non-JWs were not that bad after all?

by dgp in

jw
friends

when you people were witnesses, was there one thing (or many) that really told you non-jw's were not that bad people after all?

was there anything other people did to you that got you thinking or, better yet, feeling that you hadn't been told the truth about us?.

thank you for your answers..

dgp

I have the feeling, then, that leaving a clean life and being kind is perhaps the single most important thing one can do for a JW. It must be real clean living and real kindness. But it reaches you, and is the most important way to refute the WTBTS.

8

The WTBTS is very American. Will that affect it in the future?

by dgp in

jw
friends

i am repeating this post because i forgot to add a title to it and then couldn't edit the original one.. the wtbts was founded in america and has a strong american component to it.

it is an authoritarian organization, and, as you people know, all real decision making is left to the governing body, whose members seem to be mostly white americans, or at least have been mostly white americans or white people of english descent.

it doesn't seem to me that the members from other countries do anything but obey the commands from brooklyn.

dgp

I am repeating this post because I forgot to add a title to it and then couldn't edit the original one.

The WTBTS was founded in America and has a strong American component to it. It is an authoritarian organization, and, as you people know, all real decision making is left to the Governing Body, whose members seem to be mostly white Americans, or at least have been mostly white Americans or white people of English descent. It doesn't seem to me that the members from other countries do anything but obey the commands from Brooklyn. So, my hunch was that white Americans so far have been playing a role of leadership, and the organization could face a problem if suddenly there weren't enough white Americans to sit in the Governing Body. Would it be possible to even conceive a Governing Body formed by a brown Mexican, a brown Brazilian, a black South African, one Japanese, one black Trinidadian, brother Jawaharlal from India, brother Roberto from Guatemala (who is unmistakably Mayan), brother Cheyenne from Wyoming, side by side with brother Sven from Sweden, brother Hak from Korea, and, say, Ted Jaracz?

In another thread, On the Way Out said the WTBTS is here to stay financially, and I agree with him. I also agree that it's established around the world. But, does it really have a multinational character? Do you think a brother from Malawi is really at the same level as a brother from Chicago? I believe that the American origin of the WTBTS will continue to exist for a long time, and it might be a real problem if not enough white Americans are available. It doesn't seem to me like the organization could really operate as a multinational.

I will appreciate your thoughts.

1

untitled

by dgp in

jw
friends

the wtbts was founded in america and has a strong american component to it.

it is an authoritarian organization, and, as you people know, all real decision making is left to the governing body, whose members seem to be mostly white americans, or at least have been mostly white americans or white people of english descent.

it doesn't seem to me that the members from other countries do anything but obey the commands from brooklyn.

dgp

The WTBTS was founded in America and has a strong American component to it. It is an authoritarian organization, and, as you people know, all real decision making is left to the Governing Body, whose members seem to be mostly white Americans, or at least have been mostly white Americans or white people of English descent. It doesn't seem to me that the members from other countries do anything but obey the commands from Brooklyn. So, my hunch was that white Americans so far have been playing a role of leadership, and the organization could face a problem if suddenly there weren't enough white Americans to sit in the Governing Body. Would it be possible to even conceive a Governing Body formed by a brown Mexican, a brown Brazilian, a black South African, one Japanese, one black Trinidadian, brother Jawaharlal from India, brother Roberto from Guatemala (who is unmistakably Mayan), brother Cheyenne from Wyoming, side by side with brother Sven from Sweden, brother Hak from Korea, and, say, Ted Jaracz?

In another thread, On the Way Out said the WTBTS is here to stay financially, and I agree with him. I also agree that it's established around the world. But, does it really have a multinational character? Do you think a brother from Malawi is really at the same level as a brother from Chicago? I believe that the American origin of the WTBTS will continue to exist for a long time, and it might be a real problem if not enough white Americans are available. It doesn't seem to me like the organization could really operate as a multinational.

I will appreciate your thoughts.

33

Serious advice needed... being df'd without the brothers hearing my side???

by edlewiese in

jw
friends

ok i have asked several of my friends and they have never heard of being chased by a committee before.

so i am hoping someone has some insight.. .

i'll give you background and yes i am not innocent in the situation but what i was raised to believe is being contradicted by the actions of the elders.. .

dgp

Edlewiese,

I'm sorry if this post of mine is unrealistic, and my apology goes to other people, too. I was never in and never will be in, so there's just a lot I can't share with you. But, why would you want to go back to a group that turns a blind eye to what he did and is obviously trying to hurt you, no matter what? What is the moral value of the three elders? Are you going to be led and stay in obedience by this kind of people?

You have moved on and have a good life with this other man. Why would you give up on that? Why return, or stay, in a group that does this to its own people?

Maybe I can't really understand what is going on, but, me being me, I would disassociate myself. Writing something like "I don't want to be in the company of a bunch of bastards like you the three elders intent on disfellowshipping me. You know very well that my husband did strip clubs, et cetera, and now you have the nerve to come and try to disfellowship me? What's wrong with you people?" You add the rest.

3

Iranian theocracy a glimpse of life in JWs new system?

by AggieNostic in

scary similarity to comments on this board previously regarding the attitudes of jws toward df/da persons.... http://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/20091230/wl_afp/iranpoliticsopposition.

tehran (afp) hundreds of thousands of government supporters took to iran's streets on wednesday in a show of force against the opposition, with a senior cleric telling their leaders to repent or be declared enemies of god and face death.... ...without naming anyone, ayatollah ahmad alamolhoda told a tehran rally that "millions of people here are telling the heads of the sedition that since the supreme leader still keeps open the gate of repentance for you, then in a deadline that should be set by the judiciary you must repent and return to the path of the leader.".

alamolhoda, a member of the assembly of experts which selects the supreme leader, added: "if you do not, then this people and the regime will confront you as mohareb (enemies of god).".

dgp

Heather and Gary Botting already wrote a comparison between Oceania and the WTBTS in their "The Orwellian World of Jehovah's Witnesses". I was amazed with the similarities. I even got myself a copy of 1984 (the book of course) to verify what the Bottings wrote. YES, IT IS TRUE. And I fully agree that Iran today is very similar to the WTBTS.

In fact, the Bottings sort of suggest that maybe George Orwell used the WTBTS as inspiration for his book.

20

Was there one single thing that told you non-JWs were not that bad after all?

by dgp in

jw
friends

when you people were witnesses, was there one thing (or many) that really told you non-jw's were not that bad people after all?

was there anything other people did to you that got you thinking or, better yet, feeling that you hadn't been told the truth about us?.

thank you for your answers..

dgp

When you people were witnesses, was there one thing (or many) that really told you non-JW's were not that bad people after all? Was there anything other people did to you that got you thinking or, better yet, feeling that you hadn't been told the truth about us?

Thank you for your answers.

6

How important are the US witnesses for the WTBTS survival?

by dgp in

jw
friends

i understand the number of witnesses is not growing much, or is actually decreasing, in a few originally important countries.

i also understand that growth in the united states come from non-white and possibly non-american congregations, and that the wtbts' growth, as a whole, comes from developing countries (latin america, maybe africa).

i notice that the training school for missionaries, gilead, is in the united states.

dgp

I understand the number of witnesses is not growing much, or is actually decreasing, in a few originally important countries. I also understand that growth in the United States come from non-white and possibly non-American congregations, and that the WTBTS' growth, as a whole, comes from developing countries (Latin America, maybe Africa). I notice that the training school for missionaries, Gilead, is in the United States. And I read somewhere that the society sort of prefers American missionaries because they have been trained under the society's more direct control. Witnesses who speak English can more easily read the original Watchtower documents and have easier access to them. Should the number of American witneses not grow, would the WTBTS survive?

I'm sure that the branch offices in developing countries don't usually contribute with much. Mexico and Brazil, given their large size and relative situation, might be important contributors. But I don't think the Malawi witnesses contribute with much.

What do you people think?