Posts by simon17

102

did jesus really succeed where adam failed?

by booby in

why did jesus christ come to the earth?

the rebellion in the garden of eden brought a death sentence upon adam and eve and all their offspring, but god lovingly supplied hope.

he sent his son to the earth to provide what the bible calls a ransom.

simon17

Adam lived in a paradise and disobeyed Jehovah. He had everything given to him.

Eh except of course the experiences, existence, etc of Jesus. Jesus KNEW what would be the exact consequences of everything he would do after watching billions of years of how things operate.

Its like telling a 2 year old in perfect conditions to not touch a hot stove because it will burn you. Then the 2 year old touches it and get burned. Then you yell at her and say "look at mom... she's been stressed all day and she STILL went the entire time preparing dinner without touching the damn stove! Thats how its done!"

102

did jesus really succeed where adam failed?

by booby in

why did jesus christ come to the earth?

the rebellion in the garden of eden brought a death sentence upon adam and eve and all their offspring, but god lovingly supplied hope.

he sent his son to the earth to provide what the bible calls a ransom.

simon17

I always thought the whole idea of the "ultimate sacrifice" was a bit sketchy. No one lost anything. He got to be dead for a few days. Yes, I'm sure being tortured is not pleasant. But compared to the near eternity of his pre-human existance, one would think this would be a drop in the bucket. It would be like a mother having to endure the pin prick of a needle in order to give her dying child a life-sustaining blood transfusion. No brainer.

I always thought it would have been much more imressive if the perfect someone gave their life in place of Adam in a real and final sense (not necessarily Jesus, an angel would do). So once they died, that was it. No coming back. THAT is true love and true sacrifice. To exchange your existence for someone elses. Not to exchange 3 days of your infinite time. Especially if you KNEW that you were being resurrected. I think Abraham gets more credit... being willing to sacrifice your son on the HOPE of a resurrection took some damn balls (even though I think he and the commandment were both insane for that situation to have ever been broached!).

45

Did born-in's have the capacity to "test their faith"?

by sabastious in

2 corinthians 13: 5a - 5 examine yourselves to see whether you are in the faith; test yourselves.. this verse just comes at me like a locomotive.. to examine something is to truly use my mental capacities and to look at something objectively.. how do i accomplish this, even now?.

i was raised in an organization that controlled my information and used fear of rejection as well as my need for approval to "inculcate" the "truth" into me.. by that right, i (and all born-ins) do not have the ability to examine our faith (as a jw).. there will always be an artificial pull either for or against the society (whether we are aware of it or not).. free will has been comprimised; therefore our "faith to our creator" has been tainted and cannot be judged as worthy or unworthy.. of course many of us have regained our ability to discern and look at things objectively.. but i believe that we will never be able to truly look at the watchtower organization without a slant.. not to say the conclusions we come to regards to the organization are not valid (because they are and have been validated).

my point is that the organization has no right to judge and ostracize any born-in for leaving and even for speaking out.. they broke us, and now they are demonizing us for the things we did in that broken state.

simon17

While not entirely honest or forthright, there actually is a lot of stuff in the proclaimers book that would make someone who is trying to be objectively testing out their faith do a double-take and really reconsider some things. For the WT, its surprisingly (1/2) honest.

Now... sadly I've seen JW's who actually won't talk about any controversial thing that is even 1/2 mentioned in the Proclaimers book. Pointing out some of the problems has actually HELPED STRENGTHEN their resolve. Its as if "Well, see just like Moses was forthwright with his errors in writing the first 5 books of the Bible, so the FDS is forthright with some of their early issues." The forthrightness makes it a complete NON-ISSUE to them, which is pretty amazing.

179

So I just got called a narcissist

by sabastious in

my family knows that i post on this forum (they have a packet of print outs of topics i have started) and they know about my videos on youtube.. they have made a demand that i cease all internet communication with the apostate community and then they will have me back.. i have refused.. they say i am a narcissist because i am ignoring the feelings of my family because they are very hurt by the things i am doing on the internet and speaking out against the religion.. interesting since they had to search out my posts and videos to gather evidence of apostasy.. -sab.

simon17

By the way the grooming point on your youtube is wrong. Paul is the source for expecting a higher standard

Thats not the point. What IS the higher standard? Who says that a clean shaven look is the RIGHT way to look. Who says that is the BETTER, GOD-PLEASING way to look? Paul and the people in his day often had beards, no? Many of God's best servants were bearded.

And please don't say that facial hair is a sign of not being a part of accepted society because JWs are all about being no part of the world. If anything, it would be a much stronger case to say that all Witnesses should be bearded. In reality, a bunch of guys should not be teh ones to say what is and what is not the higher standard in some of these matters.

179

So I just got called a narcissist

by sabastious in

my family knows that i post on this forum (they have a packet of print outs of topics i have started) and they know about my videos on youtube.. they have made a demand that i cease all internet communication with the apostate community and then they will have me back.. i have refused.. they say i am a narcissist because i am ignoring the feelings of my family because they are very hurt by the things i am doing on the internet and speaking out against the religion.. interesting since they had to search out my posts and videos to gather evidence of apostasy.. -sab.

simon17

Orange walls is a sign of narcissism

179

So I just got called a narcissist

by sabastious in

my family knows that i post on this forum (they have a packet of print outs of topics i have started) and they know about my videos on youtube.. they have made a demand that i cease all internet communication with the apostate community and then they will have me back.. i have refused.. they say i am a narcissist because i am ignoring the feelings of my family because they are very hurt by the things i am doing on the internet and speaking out against the religion.. interesting since they had to search out my posts and videos to gather evidence of apostasy.. -sab.

simon17

Which is probably how most apostates start to begin with. They want to quietly go their own way. They recieve such negative emotional abuse that they have to fight against it. And here you are.

Can't blame anyone but them for that. If they want to have a good relationship with you thats one thing. If they want to have a relationship where they lambast you with hate and fear and you can say nothing in return, thats unacceptable.

Narcissism has nothing to do with it though. THey're just trying to use big words.

179

So I just got called a narcissist

by sabastious in

my family knows that i post on this forum (they have a packet of print outs of topics i have started) and they know about my videos on youtube.. they have made a demand that i cease all internet communication with the apostate community and then they will have me back.. i have refused.. they say i am a narcissist because i am ignoring the feelings of my family because they are very hurt by the things i am doing on the internet and speaking out against the religion.. interesting since they had to search out my posts and videos to gather evidence of apostasy.. -sab.

simon17

If someone wants to keep the familial bonds strong they would have to repect their parents life-choice especially if they want to live in that home

I agree with that. But if the situation was that someone simply didn't believe in the JW theology, didn't believe in the Bible, and quietly wanted to live their own life with their own spiritual search, then MOST JWs would STILL not invite that person into their home. And thats the tragedy.

Yes, if you're actively against one anothers beliefs its one thing. An intolerance for even HAVING your own beliefs is quite another.

179

So I just got called a narcissist

by sabastious in

my family knows that i post on this forum (they have a packet of print outs of topics i have started) and they know about my videos on youtube.. they have made a demand that i cease all internet communication with the apostate community and then they will have me back.. i have refused.. they say i am a narcissist because i am ignoring the feelings of my family because they are very hurt by the things i am doing on the internet and speaking out against the religion.. interesting since they had to search out my posts and videos to gather evidence of apostasy.. -sab.

simon17

Damn... honestly I dont know how you weren't DF'd loooooooooong ago sab, especially if all this activity online is known. You're pretty much textbook "apostate" even by the old definition!

179

So I just got called a narcissist

by sabastious in

my family knows that i post on this forum (they have a packet of print outs of topics i have started) and they know about my videos on youtube.. they have made a demand that i cease all internet communication with the apostate community and then they will have me back.. i have refused.. they say i am a narcissist because i am ignoring the feelings of my family because they are very hurt by the things i am doing on the internet and speaking out against the religion.. interesting since they had to search out my posts and videos to gather evidence of apostasy.. -sab.

simon17

I edited to reflect a less snippy attitude

Wow, I learned how to edit haha. I never saw that box up there before! Thanks

179

So I just got called a narcissist

by sabastious in

my family knows that i post on this forum (they have a packet of print outs of topics i have started) and they know about my videos on youtube.. they have made a demand that i cease all internet communication with the apostate community and then they will have me back.. i have refused.. they say i am a narcissist because i am ignoring the feelings of my family because they are very hurt by the things i am doing on the internet and speaking out against the religion.. interesting since they had to search out my posts and videos to gather evidence of apostasy.. -sab.

simon17

If I left a religion because I questioned it's teachings I wouldn't become an activist

In fairness though, you kind of did. By actively preaching, you are actively trying to "destroy" other religions. Yes, you will say "no, I'm not against their religion, I'm just trying to get people to know the truth." But thats exactly what people on this site are doing. They saw their religion as screwed up. It may seem like they are anti-witnesses, but they really just want the truth that they saw to be made known to others. They are as anti-JW as you are anti-Catholic from a Catholic's perspective when you are at their door.