Posts by sd-7

23

Questions From Readers - April 15, 2015 Watchtower

by sd-7 in

jw
friends

now, i'm not a prophet, but i would consider this article to be a uh, spirit-directed excerpt from what could happen--but we are not saying.

questions from readers.

is it necessary to offer thanks in prayer before eating snacks?.

sd-7

What I really liked was the "are snacks food? Apparently so" part. I remembered the feelings I used to get when I'd read these kinds of articles. As if...if they said that chocolate was not food, I would believe it and shudder. I'd still eat chocolate when nobody was looking, of course, even if I felt guilty about it. (I'd just think they were a little extreme--which is what I always thought during convention programs. The interviews with people working 3 days a week and pioneering and etc. made me think, when the heck am I going to have time for ME?) But the subtle power they wield with those words, I thought it appropriate to reflect that.

I was surprised myself at just how identical to the real articles this turned out to be. You'd think they'd only need like three people to write it all, were it not for the scholarly stuff they have to do to give the appearance of being smarter than the R&F. But this was fun.

SD-7

16

"Bearing Thorough Witness"--page 98, par. 13; Compare p. 103, par. 9, 10, 12

by sd-7 in

when i find the same old same old in the newest publications.

here's a little sampling, from my now-favorite work of bible-based fantasy, "bearing thorough witness" about [the governing body].

note page 98, paragraph 13:.

sd-7

You know what I like? When I find the same old same old in the newest publications. Here's a little sampling, from my now-favorite work of Bible-based fantasy, "Bearing Thorough Witness" About [the Governing Body]. Note page 98, paragraph 13:

"As we help others learn truths from God's Word, do we, like Paul and Barnabas, avoid seeking adulation? Charles Taze Russell, an outstanding teacher who took the lead in the preaching work in the late 19th and 20th centuries [curious that they don't mention his position as president of the Society--I've noticed that terminology has largely disappeared in recent years], set an example in this regard [Ha!]. He wrote: "We want no homage, no reverence, for ourselves or our writings; nor do we wish to be called Reverend or Rabbi." Brother Russell's humble attitude reflected that of Paul and Barnabas."

Wonderful sentiment. Except for the fact that "Brother" Russell was known as PASTOR Russell, just as "Brother" Rutherford was known as JUDGE Rutherford--a particularly presumptuous title in this particular association, given that Christ alone does the judging. And while, as I understand it, Russell wasn't inclined to expel people who didn't agree with his ideas, he still thought of himself as God's mouthpiece and the embodiment of the "faithful slave", which is no different than believing himself to be a prophet. He certainly got plenty of homage in the process, too.

I'm also reminded of an article in which the Governing Body reminds us to not try to interpret the Bible on our own, but rather, have the attitude of Joseph, who said, "Do not interpretations belong to God?" God, in this case, must therefore be the Governing Body, as only they are permitted to interpret the Bible for us, right? So much for no homage.

But we don't need to go to another article or even another book to find a clear contradiction of this seemingly noble statement. Page 103, paragraph 9:

"The brothers in Antioch knew that the governing body was made up entirely of Christians of Jewish background. Yet, they trusted that body to settle the question of circumcision in harmony with the Scriptures. Why? The congregation was confident that Jehovah would direct matters by means of his holy spirit and the Head of the Christian congregation, Jesus Christ. (Matt. 28:18, 20; Eph. 1:22, 23) When serious issues arise today, let us imitate the fine example of the believers in Antioch by trusting [who? Bait and switch] God's organization and its Governing Body of anointed Christians, who represent "the faithful and discreet slave"."

Notice, no mention of Jesus Christ or the holy spirit directing matters for them--only a mention of trusting God's organization and its Governing Body. Speaking of which, if Jesus Christ is Head of the Christian congregation, as they mention here, HOW IS THE GOVERNING BODY GOVERNING ANYTHING?????!! They are in no position to govern! JESUS does the governing! They are supposed to be SLAVES, NOT GOVERNORS!

Paragraph 10:

"Elders today strive to have the same humble, patient attitude when potentially divisive questions arise. Instead of being contentious, they look to Jehovah by consulting the Scriptures and [you guessed it] the instruction and guidance provided by the slave class."

Guidance by the slave class = looking to Jehovah. No homage of their writings whatsoever going on here.

Paragraph 12:

"So let us never proudly push ahead [loaded language'd!!!] with our own ideas or react negatively to organizational changes or to adjusted explanations of certain scriptures. If you detect even a hint of such a tendency in yourself, why not meditate prayerfully on the timely principles found in Acts chapter 15?* *See the box "Jehovah's Witnesses Build Their Beliefs on the Bible'."

So if they want no homage for their writings, how is anyone with a different perspective "proudly pushing ahead"? And by meditate, I take it they mean, erase your thoughts and replace them with ours, right? Cult mind control--no negative thoughts about doctrine tolerated. Nice.

Acts 15 gives a very different story than is practiced in the "modern day organization". The apostles did not meet in secret to make this decision--the congegation at Jerusalem, described as a "multitude", was present. No Governing Body meeting today would be held in the sight of any congregation of Jehovah's Witnesses--no doubt they would be horrified, or the GB would put on a show, having rehearsed it all beforehand. Note also that the contents of the apostles' letter to the congregations included no threats of expulsion if people did not cooperate. It even mentions the holy spirit. When was the last time you saw the holy spirit mentioned as playing a role in any Questions From Readers or Watchtower study article 'adjustments'? I can't think of a time in recent history, but I've not bothered reading much of it for awhile. If anyone knows of an example of that, by all means post it.

The footnote references Jason David BeDuhn--apparently the Society's favorite scholar--as praising the Witnesses for 'working with the raw materials of the Bible' and not putting their own beliefs on top of it. How much, I wonder, has Mr. BeDuhn actually studied the Witnesses' doctrine? As I hear it, he also mentioned that they placed the name Jehovah into the New Testament without any basis for it and on top of that, failed to place the divine name consistently in every place where the Old Testament is quoted (because it might force them to admit that scriptures about Jehovah were applied directly to Jesus ["provided you have tasted that Jehovah [the Lord, NWT] is kind. Coming to him [Jesus]"--1 Peter 3, I think). I'm tired of hearing this guy quoted [they quoted him in a Public Edition Trinity article awhile back]. I'm going to order his book and see the full story. I know that any of his criticisms were ignored.

Well, I just find it all to be unfortunate. The humble moments presented in the literature are quickly upended by organizational arrogance, every time. Someday, it would be refreshing to hear them say, we, the Governing Body, were wrong about [x]. Not that "Jehovah's Witnesses erred in this belief", passing the blame to people who have no control over the beliefs in the first place. But to admit their mistakes, genuinely, humbly. That would be nice. I might actually consider trusting them again if they did that. ... Sorry. I can't say that with a straight face.

Fire away.

SD-7

9

DF'd Loyalists Who Face Blood Issue

by sd-7 in

jw
friends

anyone know of a case of someone who was df'd, then had an emergency that required a blood transfusion?

let's say they're still loyal to wt and don't want it.

do the elders come to the hospital and stick up for them, or, because they're "no longer one of jehovah's witnesses", they just leave 'em to get pumped full of blood or to die by their own choice, since either way, they can't take judicial action anyway?

sd-7

Anyone know of a case of someone who was DF'd, then had an emergency that required a blood transfusion? Let's say they're still loyal to WT and don't want it. Do the elders come to the hospital and stick up for them, or, because they're "no longer one of Jehovah's Witnesses", they just leave 'em to get pumped full of blood or to die by their own choice, since either way, they can't take judicial action anyway? Am I explaining that properly? Any thoughts?

SD-7

23

Questions From Readers - April 15, 2015 Watchtower

by sd-7 in

jw
friends

now, i'm not a prophet, but i would consider this article to be a uh, spirit-directed excerpt from what could happen--but we are not saying.

questions from readers.

is it necessary to offer thanks in prayer before eating snacks?.

sd-7

That's the idea!! Of course they have no way of knowing that. That's why I wrote it! Because that's the best way they proceed with their arguments--with stuff they couldn't possibly know.

SD-7

23

Questions From Readers - April 15, 2015 Watchtower

by sd-7 in

jw
friends

now, i'm not a prophet, but i would consider this article to be a uh, spirit-directed excerpt from what could happen--but we are not saying.

questions from readers.

is it necessary to offer thanks in prayer before eating snacks?.

sd-7

The thought just popped into my head and, realizing I could imitate their writing style so easily, I just started writing the article. Goodness. I can't believe I didn't figure it all out before now...

SD-7

23

Questions From Readers - April 15, 2015 Watchtower

by sd-7 in

jw
friends

now, i'm not a prophet, but i would consider this article to be a uh, spirit-directed excerpt from what could happen--but we are not saying.

questions from readers.

is it necessary to offer thanks in prayer before eating snacks?.

sd-7

(with the exception of Sunday’s food being provided on Saturday, when a double portion of manna was sent from heaven)

***This should read: (with the exception of Saturday's food being provided on Friday...) sorry.

23

Questions From Readers - April 15, 2015 Watchtower

by sd-7 in

jw
friends

now, i'm not a prophet, but i would consider this article to be a uh, spirit-directed excerpt from what could happen--but we are not saying.

questions from readers.

is it necessary to offer thanks in prayer before eating snacks?.

sd-7

Now, I'm not a prophet, but I would consider this article to be a uh, spirit-directed excerpt from what could happen--but we are not saying. It could. But we are not saying:

Questions From Readers

Is it necessary to offer thanks in prayer before eating snacks?

In the time of Moses and the Israelites, snacks generally did not exist. Food could not be stored as it is today due to modern technology. For example, the Passover lamb could only be eaten on the night it was slaughtered. None of it was to remain until the morning. (Ex. 12:10) Similarly, the manna that the Israelites received in the wilderness sustained them only for one day. They were not permitted to take up more than one day’s supply of food (with the exception of Sunday’s food being provided on Saturday, when a double portion of manna was sent from heaven), evidently meaning Jehovah provided only enough for three square meals--not for satanic fourthmeals like those engaged in by the surrounding pagan nations. (Ex. 16:15-19) Thus, the matter of offering thanks to Jehovah over a snack never became an issue.

However, in recent times, it has become possible to preserve more food than is required for three square meals. Also, snack foods—various forms of chocolate, candy, pastries and the like—have become more and more readily available. Do these items, being food, come from Jehovah as well? Apparently so, as Jehovah is “the giver of every good gift and perfect present” and thus provided man with the means of creating snack foods.

Would it, then, be inappropriate to offer to thanks over food that is not even a meal? That is up to the individual to decide. But those who choose to display a lack of regard for the sacred provisions of food, doing so brazenly in the presence of others, may be subject to judicial action, up to and including being removed from the Christian congregation for failure to appreciate sacred things, just like Esau, who undoubtedly did not thank Jehovah when he gave away his right as firstborn in exchange for one meal. (Heb. 12:16) Why is it reasonable to conclude that such failure to offer thanks over a small amount of food is similar to Esau’s rebellious spirit?

It is entirely possible that this meal may not have been more than a snack, as not only did Esau ask for some of the stew, but he also needed bread to supplement it. (Gen. 25:30-34) Clearly, since Jacob, in compliance with righteous principles he must have learned from his father Isaac, would not have made more stew than could be consumed in one day, it is not likely that it would have been enough to constitute a meal for Esau. We can see this also from the fact that Esau was likely bigger and stronger than Jacob, being a hunter of game. (Gen. 25:27) Hence, the stew given to Esau was evidently a snack—one for which he arrogantly refused to give thanks to Jehovah.

True Christians, therefore, would wisely give thought to these scriptural principles in making their own personal decisions about offering thanks before eating a snack. In doing so, let us remember that it is Jehovah, through the faithful and discreet slave, who provides us with “food at the proper time”. (Matt. 24:45-47)

21

WHO polices the Circuit Overseers?

by babygirl30 in

jw
friends

is required to 'monitor' the elders...but who monitors the c.o.?

i ask that because thinking back to all the c.o.

's i've had seen, each had his own personality and style.

sd-7

Who polices the circuit overseers?

Who watches the watchmen?

Same question, really.

In this case, they're only policed so much as it affects the turning of the wheels, just like anyone else in the Borg. Never made a habit of being too close to any of them because they always seemed...out of touch with the ordinary person's life. Like they were just there to show us how little we were doing, and to hold themselves up as all we could never be.

Once you understand how the wheels really turn, they become as irrelevant and irritating as anyone else on the inside.

SD-7

3

You know what I've noticed?

by sd-7 in

jw
friends

after reading that 'assembly survival techniques' entry by kingagag, i was reminded of all the great quotes i took from previous assemblies/conventions/impositions of israelite rules on christian congregation (meeting 3 times in a year--straight out of the ot).

i noticed something about the programs.. every concluding talk for every program shifts the focus to the faithful slave.

the final talk at the convention referenced that term at least 8 times.

sd-7

After reading that 'Assembly Survival Techniques' entry by KingAgag, I was reminded of all the great quotes I took from previous assemblies/conventions/impositions of Israelite rules on Christian congregation (meeting 3 times in a year--straight out of the OT). I noticed something about the programs.

Every concluding talk for every program shifts the focus to the faithful slave. The final talk at the convention referenced that term at least 8 times. "Pointed to 1914 as a marked year--they weren't sure what would take place." [Well...Russell sure was. He published very specific things he said would take place...] "Some" weren't sure what would happen.

Faithful slave-1922--house-to-house work made mandatory (for everyone except Rutherford) "You may be sitting here today because of someone at the 1922 convention." (Wish I had a time machine...)

1925--Birth of a Nation article--organizational concept created. (ie. Organization=God)

"Despite warnings of faithful slave about the end of the Gentile Times, world rulers paid no heed." Maybe because they knew you were a bunch of crackpots, unlike those of us in the audience?

"Four horsemen began their ride in 1914." Really? Don't see a specific year in my Bible.

World War II--"many" of God's people expected it to be the end of the system. By "many", they shift the blame to the rank-and-file, not Rutherford who was about to die.

'Faithful slave identifies the harlot in Revelation 17" as every other religion. Churches dwindling (we're not doing so hot either, you know, as the religion with the highest turnover in the country and all...)

607 B.C.E. date mentioned--wrong date, but again imprinted on our minds.

At the end of the talk, the chairman said that this was "overwhelming evidence that the faithful slave is keeping on the watch." There was overwhelming evidence, alright, but not of that.

"Is this not Babylon the Great that I have created with the dignity of my might?" (Paraphrasing Daniel 4) Nebuchadnezzar glorified himself and his own accomplishments and was humbled for it. Jesus warned that he who exalts himself will be humbled. Does the slave behave like a slave, truly give credit to God? Or does it boast of its own accomplishments? It wasn't until I woke up that I realized how high on themselves they really are. And how vastly unchristian that kind of attitude is. They simultaneously manage to put on mock humility AND get us to believe they have special powers.

[[Well, I needed a moment to share those thoughts, even though this is too long. I'm going back into the Borg to fight 'em. I'm surprised about the Thought Police--for people who claimed they wanted to meet with me, and that was like, what, a week, maybe even two weeks ago, how come they haven't called? Even R&F that I never gave my number to have called by now.

Marrying into the Borg is a suicide mission, which I've volunteered for. She takes issue with the fact that I've had a bone to pick with my big brother--MS/regular pioneer, perfect elder material (since he's a pain-in-the-behind). The dude slandered her and insulted her when I first tried to date her--she herself wanted to go to the elders about it! I lost her and 5 good years of my life waiting for her on account of him and people like him. So yeah, I'm not inclined to want to hang out with the guy. He's got his life, I've got mine--and now that I know what's going on, I see that he did all that to me for nothing. Which helps him even less. But you know, I don't care so much anymore. I just don't feel anything now--the Borg took all that compassion and goodness and made it immoral. So I dispensed with it when that became necessary.

But I'll figure it out. Hope you all are doing okay, all things considered. Take care.]]

SD-7

28

Assembly Survival Techniques

by KingAgag in

jw
friends

i told my wife some time back that i would fade, and i compronised that i'd still attend the memorials and assemblies (at least for now).

november 1st is the 'special' assembly day.

she said she doesn't care if i listen or not, it is more to help her with the baby.

sd-7

My technique was simple: listen to the new sound of the Borg and write down verbatim those obviously extremist statements. I found some whoppers myself in the past three programs:

"Evil is like cockroaches."

Next talk: "Those in false religion practice evil daily." Comparing those we preach to to cockroaches? Wow, very loving...

C.O.: "You don't deserve a vacation--that's Satan's thinking!" (This from a man who doesn't work and lives off of all of us. Wow. He's in a great position to decide if we need a vacation. And since when did vacations come from the Devil?)

Another program had some great tidbits.

"Liars become ministers of Satan." Then, 2 Cor. 6:8, "as deceivers and yet truthful"--they explained that the media is deceiving people about us.

"Are we going to continue helping the faithful slave in the preaching work?"--This would seem to imply that the 'faithful slave' was actually DOING any of the work.

"The Watchtower magazine is the principal way Jehovah provides his people with spiritual food."--Not the Bible, not Holy Spirit. The Watchtower. Interesting. And arrogant.

"Wisdom of the world is based on lies, deception, prejudice."--Certainly seeing none of that here, are we?

"God through the faithful slave gave us family worship night."--As if otherwise, we would never worship as a family.

"Part of the power we're given is from the spirit-led faithful and discreet slave."--So...do they pass on Holy Spirit or something? I thought Jesus did that for us...

At the door, Question-->scripture-->literature. "Bring the attention to our literature." "This isn't a gimmick or a mind trick so we can place literature."--Really? Acts 17:2, 3 (Note that Paul used only the scriptures, not the Watchtower...)

"The faithful slave isn't trying to shame us to do more."--Certainly not. That would be mind control, wouldn't it?

"Watchtower...develops qualities like loyalty, trust..."

"Look at how loving the faithful slave was in consolidating meetings to give us time for family worship."

"Ministry is a career with a real future...Ministry has no layoffs."--Tell that to the people who got laid off from Bethel...

"World says we should have university training, but Paul said it was garbage."--Paul was also a lawyer who had the skill of tentmaking. And wrote much of the NT. A doctor wrote two other books of the NT. Well, I guess all that garbage training must have helped Paul somehow, right? If he was a lamebrain he couldn't have reasoned with anyone about the scriptures.

See? It's fun. Try it. Just don't let the hypnosis take over. After that, you'll start feelin' guilt.

SD-7