It is an irony, isn't it, that the articles written to keep people in line actually serve to squeeze them right out of the organization.
Oh, right, my mistake--that's called "testing and sifting from within". What a "weed" I've proven to be!
--sd-7
Posts by sd-7
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16An article on shunning that really started the wheels turning
by sd-7 init was the september 1, 2006 watchtower, page 17, "when a loved one leaves jehovah".
it was this quote i found upsetting:.
it has become harder and harder to sit at christian meetings and see parents laughing and talking with their children, says louise.
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sd-7
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16
An article on shunning that really started the wheels turning
by sd-7 init was the september 1, 2006 watchtower, page 17, "when a loved one leaves jehovah".
it was this quote i found upsetting:.
it has become harder and harder to sit at christian meetings and see parents laughing and talking with their children, says louise.
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sd-7
What SD has pointed out is that 99% of them will read an article like this and think to themselves, poor parents, their child is shunning them. The very few thinkers will get it.
Excellent point, there. Been trying to read more on propaganda techniques. This one is called "reversal of reality", I believe. Or it could be a "lie by omission", as it could be that their daughter very much wanted to talk to them but they shunned her. We don't have enough details to know for sure. Come to think of it, we don't even know if these people are real. But since when does that matter, right?
Truth be told, I was as much a zealot for the doctrine and rules as any of them, with some exceptions, but I was at least aware enough even as a Witness that I thought the shunning thing was rather harsh. I at least liked to make eye contact with people I'd trusted or liked who got DF'd and in some cases I even mouthed a greeting.
No doubt to her chagrin now, the woman I loved and eventually married was the wake-up call for me. She was the beginning; when she got DF'd, it made me start to rethink the rules. The more I talked to the elders about my feelings on the matter, you know, without being confrontational or challenging the ruling or anything, the more callous I realized they really were. They expressed in no uncertain terms that even if she got reinstated she wouldn't be worth dating again. Apparently, her sins were so evil that even repentance would not erase them, I guess. (At most, she got drunk/high and had sex with someone? Truly, the unforgivable sins! In hindsight, I still say that even though we're not exactly that compatible and have had our problems, she's a good woman and a good person, hardly deserving of the stuff the shepherds who were supposed to be trying to heal her were saying about her to me in private.)
This article came maybe seven months after I ceased contact with her. It just drove the knife in further for me. When even her reinstatement wasn't good enough as far as resuming our friendship (which is what it was when we parted ways anyhow), that was the final straw for me and I knew I needed answers the elders couldn't give me. Because I knew that this level of regulating the personal lives of adults was not found in the Bible. And as the Reasoning book so kindly reminds us, Jehovah's Witnesses adhere to the Bible as their final authority.
Wow, did that turn out to be a bad line to use for a guy like me, who took them at their word...and found it to be a lie. Clearly their rules go beyond the Bible, and that was my pet peeve about it all. I'd had serious doubts before, but it just wasn't time yet to pursue them fully until 3 years ago. It is an irony, isn't it, that the articles written to keep people in line actually serve to squeeze them right out of the organization. Go figure.
--sd-7
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16
An article on shunning that really started the wheels turning
by sd-7 init was the september 1, 2006 watchtower, page 17, "when a loved one leaves jehovah".
it was this quote i found upsetting:.
it has become harder and harder to sit at christian meetings and see parents laughing and talking with their children, says louise.
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sd-7
Aww, you're making me think about that Beast-Tower article I wrote not long ago on shun guns...I do hope they never take that idea too literally...
--sd-7
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6
Sound Familiar?
by Jack C. inhow the watchtower society brainwashes its members..... .
brainwashing & mind control techniques.
the term "brainwashing" came into common language through the work of american journalist edward hunter who was an expert of oriental issues; the very word being the direct translation of chinese "hsi-nao".
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sd-7
Here's the thread I made on this subject. That book was a very eye-opening read, I highly recommend it for anyone still trying to deconstruct the JW-related issues.
--sd-7
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6
Sound Familiar?
by Jack C. inhow the watchtower society brainwashes its members..... .
brainwashing & mind control techniques.
the term "brainwashing" came into common language through the work of american journalist edward hunter who was an expert of oriental issues; the very word being the direct translation of chinese "hsi-nao".
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sd-7
Two years ago, I was reading Dr. Robert Jay Lifton's work on this concept of brainwashing. It was frightening to see how identical those subjected to the mind control process in Chinese prisons were to the JWs. I remember bringing that up in a discussion with my JW brother back then. "What, are you a Communist now?" was his response. It seems he asked a question to distract from the actual issue, rather than attempting to answer the problem this reality presented for his belief system. Or even to actually demand some proof of what I'd just said would have been nice. But given the means of defense that a JW is taught--to avoid directly answering a question and find a way to distract from the real issue at hand--can't be too surprised.
But this is definitely more real than most people realize. I think the general public is woefully ignorant about it because when they hear 'mind control' or 'brainwashing' the mental image is that of a hypnotist or the conspiracy theorist with the tin foil hat or a torture chamber in some faraway country. They don't seem to get that even in small ways these techniques are being used in one form or another all over the place. And certainly they don't expect it from a couple of well-dressed, smiling people at their doors claiming to teach them about the Bible.
The music and the way the talks are given--wow, that's dead-on. The tone of voice used in the WT recordings of the literature is always the same. The pacing is always the same. Always. And the music...hmm. I wonder if that's why they have so many songs during the convention program. Well, I guess that, and maybe it helps keep the blood clots from forming...
I remember listening to the meeting over the phone, well, my wife had it on speaker and was listening to it at home, and it really did sound like the people were zombies. I had never noticed it before, until I just heard the voices by themselves over the phone. It was scary. How could all these different people sound exactly alike, the same monotone droning?
Hmm. Well, thanks for keeping this fresh in our minds. It's important for lurkers especially to be aware of this stuff.
--sd-7
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37
Watchtower admits, "We are like the Catholic Church"
by Juan Viejo2 incalvin rouse describes himself as "general counsel for the national organization of jehovah's witnesses out of brooklyn, new york.".
while representing one of the defendants during a trial held in san mateo county court in redwood city, california, on february 22, 2012, rouse made this amazing statement:.
"ordinarily, i wouldn't be here, but this is one our 13,000 congregations in the united states.
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sd-7
Well, they'll say anything in court. As long as it was said and not written, it can be dismissed as "apostate propaganda" if someone brings it up. And if it was written, it can always be rewritten or you can always be DF'd for pointing it out. Maybe you just don't know how it works around heah, son. I be de sheriff, and you be de lahw-ahbidin' citizen. If you be likin' dat head on dem dere shoulders, that is.
--sd-7
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13
Meet the next generation of American men
by kurtbethel inand the helicopter moms who love them.. .
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sd-7
Hey, in the end, you just go from one woman's breast to the other's. Frankly, I think this cover's kind of a turn-on. But then again, I do get to watch the Mrs. breastfeed regularly, so...I'm a little biased.
I mean, it's a natural process. And I hardly think every woman in America is going to be breastfeeding until their kid is in elementary school. Once they get teeth, it's even more painful than it already was. I can think of a number of magazine covers more shocking than this one. Though I can also think of a number of other hot moms who should similarly pose for this cover...I think we need the devil smirk here. There it goes.
--sd-7
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10
Jehovah's Witnesses - Faith In Action Part 2 - thoughts?
by Captain Obvious inmost of us remember the thread last month about the video that was supposed to be watched in prep for discussion at the meeting.
well at the end of this month, there is a discussion on part 2. .
part 1 had at least that one big glaring lie, about what the bible students were expecting in 1914. it then went on in the usual fashion, blaming the students themselves for having made up their own expectations.... .
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sd-7
I think the thing that struck me as odd was that the literature and the ability to sell it was apparently more important than preaching the good news. They could have either offered the literature for free or simply and discreetly used their Bibles alone to preach. Instead, they make sure they put themselves in the crosshairs and get arrested, etc. The times when they wore placards reminded me an awful lot of the Civil Rights Movement. Just coincidence, I guess. Again, I may be mistaken. Nobody deserved to get the beatings some of those poor brothers received. I find that a terrible reflection on freedom and on the USA. But Rutherford could have handled that differently. He was smart enough to know better. Which is what makes me think he put those folks in harm's way on purpose.
--sd-7
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10
Jehovah's Witnesses - Faith In Action Part 2 - thoughts?
by Captain Obvious inmost of us remember the thread last month about the video that was supposed to be watched in prep for discussion at the meeting.
well at the end of this month, there is a discussion on part 2. .
part 1 had at least that one big glaring lie, about what the bible students were expecting in 1914. it then went on in the usual fashion, blaming the students themselves for having made up their own expectations.... .
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sd-7
Well, what was glaring about Part 2 of the series was its lack of actual details about significant portions of the organization's history. Much of it focused on persecution (with a rather violent reenactment in there) and pretty much showcasing their ability to use bluescreen and current Witnesses dressed up as '30s Witnesses for reenactments.
I mean, it's bare bones, if that; the Proclaimers book was more thorough by far. It actually makes me wonder why they bothered doing this? They seemed to have skipped over like 30 years' worth of organizational history with only a passing glance. With so much information out there, it would have been smart to actually address some of the real issues that say, apostates might bring up, just to have an official story that shuts down curiosity for the 'honest-hearted, loyal' types.
Did I see anything that stood out as a lie? No. I did note an interesting coincidence: as persecution and court cases increased, the number of new recruits started increasing. And what better way to get on the map than to, perhaps intentionally, I may be wrong, put your people in the positions of martyrs and victims? All Rutherford had to do to stop some of it was stop selling the literature, that way there'd be no need to worry about the issue of JWs needing a license from the state. But the money was apparently more important than keeping his followers out of jail and trouble. And being an expert in law himself, wouldn't it be easy to frame the situation so that his organization comes out on top? The man was nothing if not shrewd in business and law, so religion would be a piece of cake. A very rich piece of cake.
But they stayed out of danger zones, like Millions Now Living and all that. It was admittedly fun, albeit evil and vindictive, to look at now-dead Governing Body members talking in interviews. Just being able to say out loud, "You're dead," and, "Yeah, you're dead," was rather satisfying. I'm kind of glad I got to watch it alone, well, except my daughter popping in to look for a little while. I threw out snarky remarks and she said, "Yeah," not knowing what the heck I was talking about, of course. It was fun.
--sd-7
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32
Pioneers and Their Way of Counting "Time"
by Eiben Scrood inin the congregations in my area there was an expression to the effect that 'there's counting time and then there's the way pioneers count their time'.
the watchtower's guidelines were pretty strict on when time could be counted.
some pioneers followed it and others didn't.. on particularly motivated young man comes to mind, he would work full-time or close to it and pioneer.
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sd-7
Realistically, probably all of us were cheating. I think I would probably justify it by saying, the important thing is that I got out there and they saw me out there. Neither God nor man is likely to do an audit on my field service time as long as I start it when I get to the first door and end it whenever we're done or there's a stop at the store [that lasts for longer than 15 minutes]... Ultimately the counting of time had little to do with worship and more to do with keeping the elders off one's back. Which of course didn't work out being a male, 'cause then they'd be on your back to 'reach out', can you come up to the KH, can you do the accounting, can you substitute talk #X, how's that porn habit going?, etc., etc.
--sd-7