Aw, come on, I'm throwing you gold, man! Back to the top, baby! Back to the Top!
--sd-7
Posts by sd-7
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15'Obey the organization like Moses'--why this is wrong
by sd-7 ini was just thinking about how the watchtower often compares the organization's position to that of moses.
challenging moses, in their retelling of the biblical account, equated challenging god's authority, as korah, dathan, and abiram did, to their own peril.
the conclusion we are to gain from this is not to challenge, question, or disagree with the watchtower society's teachings even in our private thoughts.
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21
"we need to help that brother"
by TimeBandit inat the last district convention i went to (2010) i was sitting in my seat during the lunch break.
i was listening to two brothers sitting together chatting in the row in front of me.
they were talking about brother 'so and so'.
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sd-7
Just like a dubious parent, the JWs tend to pay you the most attention if you've done something wrong. And then that's only to spank you. Gotta love 'em.
--sd-7
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29
"You are so Focussed on The Past that you can't see the Blessings in front of your Eyes!"
by BluesBrother inthat statement has been made to me recently - i think it is a sound-bite from the new dvd about jerusalem's fall.. hmm.. i need to reflect on a reply .
several thoughts come to mind but it has to be constructive and form a reasoned argument rather than a smart answer.. what blessings?
are we unreasonably obsessed with the past?
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sd-7
The Society doesn't forget what we do--if the late Ray Franz is to be believed, files on the DF'd are kept even after they're dead. And I'M obsessed with the past?
How about recent Watchtower articles praising the early 20th century preaching activities? Why so focused on the past if there are so many current blessings happening in the organization today?
Either way, this is an attempt at thought control. Erase a person's past and make sure they are focused on the busy work of the present, and eventually, the present becomes the past, and the past that was before that fades into nothing. The authentic person is wiped away and replaced with the cult persona.
Oh. You were looking for a reasoned answer...one that won't make a JW bristle, you mean?
Hmm. "We are encouraged to be balanced in all things. Just as we look forward to the future, it makes sense to remember things that are in our past so that we can successfully learn from our mistakes and improve in the present. God gave us the ability to remember things that have happened previously; I hope you're not telling me that he is forbidding us to use it. How would we remember all the marvelous things we have been taught before? What joyous treasures and deep instruction can be found in meditating on past events! Have you considered doing so in your spare time? Such meditation can be rewarding."
--sd-7
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15
'Obey the organization like Moses'--why this is wrong
by sd-7 ini was just thinking about how the watchtower often compares the organization's position to that of moses.
challenging moses, in their retelling of the biblical account, equated challenging god's authority, as korah, dathan, and abiram did, to their own peril.
the conclusion we are to gain from this is not to challenge, question, or disagree with the watchtower society's teachings even in our private thoughts.
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sd-7
I was just thinking about how the Watchtower often compares the organization's position to that of Moses. Challenging Moses, in their retelling of the Biblical account, equated challenging God's authority, as Korah, Dathan, and Abiram did, to their own peril. The conclusion we are to gain from this is not to challenge, question, or disagree with the Watchtower Society's teachings even in our private thoughts. I was thinking just yesterday of how problematic their logic is on this issue. Let me explain my take on why that is.
You see, Korah, Dathan, and Abiram, when they first challenged Moses, made the assertion that the entire assembly was holy and that Jehovah was in their midst. Well, the thing is, they were wrong. The entire assembly was, in fact, far from holy, and huge swaths of them were being culled from the ranks repeatedly by God himself, so clearly that wasn't true. In fact, I'll take it a step further and say that not even Moses and Aaron were all that holy; God also culled them from the ranks and prevented them from entering the Promised Land.
I'll say that again, Moses and Aaron died in the wilderness by God's direct order. They died in the wilderness, just the same as those who worshipped the golden calf, the Israelite who was brutally stabbed through his genitals for immorality, those who ate the quail without first giving thanks, and so on. So how could it be said that they were holier? More obedient, perhaps, more patient, but not holier.
Moses lost his right to enter the Promised Land for not giving credit to God where credit was due. Aaron participated in idolatry by building the golden calf; when he was confronted about it, he went so far as to lie about the events that happened, describing the calf as walking out of the fire on its own (which would be a miracle for an inanimate object to do, right?). So, Aaron lost his right to enter the Promised Land, too.
But there is a parallel I see here between Moses, Aaron, and the Governing Body. Just as Moses failed to give credit to God for what was God's work, the Governing Body takes credit for providing spiritual 'food at the proper time', asserting that its Watchtower literature is from God and that those who seek to study even the Bible by itself are 'testing God' by saying 'his provisions' aren't enough. But God did not say he would provide additional books beyond the scriptures that would help people understand them better; holy spirit was supposed to make up for any lack of understanding a person might have.
Aaron made an idol and even built an altar in front of it and proclaimed a festival to Jehovah. The people began to say of the golden calf that it was the God who provided deliverance from Egypt. In a similar way, the Governing Body created 'God's organization' and has declared to all that belonging to the organization is the means God has provided for salvation. The organization's words are taken as God's words, and the Governing Body clearly considers itself beyond questioning and as essentially having authority to design laws in addition to those God made in the Bible whether there's a Biblical basis for it or not. It even says it will help Jesus apply the ransom to mankind in the future. Without a doubt, the concept of 'God's organization' has been fashioned into an idol, into a god in its own right, equal to Jesus, equal to holy spirit, and equal even to God.
So, if we are to obey 'God's organization' as the Israelites were to obey Moses and Aaron, the question remains: what will be the end outcome for this organization, if it is like Moses and Aaron? Wandering in a spiritual wilderness for decades, and eventually dying off without having partaken of the promises. If they want to drink the cup Moses and Aaron drank, then they may not like the taste of what's in it.
--sd-7
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38
William Osbeck-The CO that helped me get out of the borg.
by Sadie5 inafter reading cruzenheart's post on the letter about her father, and the treatment he received from the co, william osbeck, and the elders of his congregation, it brought back my own memories of this particular co and his treatment of people.
it was 1995 and one of the hardest years of my life.
in february of that year, i learned i was pregnant with our fifth child.
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sd-7
Wow, quite a story, and one I can at least partially identify with, being a relatively new dad and all. Glad everyone's hanging in there.
I can also relate to what seems to be a recurring pattern: the cold-hearted demeanor of the elders and overseers in the congregations seems to contribute to an extraordinary amount of disgust with the organization and causes people to start wondering if indeed it is 'the truth' after all. I felt that same chilly wind blow over me in my own life, though not with anything nearly so serious happening at the time.
The organization takes men and turns them into machines. And how many more must be ground beneath its wheels, I wonder?
--sd-7
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12
YPA 09/12 - What Can I Expect From Marriage? pt.1 (with snark)
by corpusdei inanother month, another ypa article just ripe for mocking.
(there's more snark here if you enjoy poking these articles as much as i do).
young people ask - what can i expect from marriage?
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sd-7
Not really. It's more like trying to piloting a sentient, megalomaniacal starship designed by an insane wizard who was hopped up on PCP and NyQuil.
That would be my experience with marriage. You aaaaare my starship, come and take me up toniiiiiiiight, and don't be late! And dooon't you coome toooo sooooooooooooooooooon!
--sd-7
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21
thirdwitness.com - JWs answer to apostate accusations
by Reality79 inthirdwitness.com (sorry i can't make it clickable on my browser).
has anyone seen this site?
the witnesses on jwtalk have been praising it..
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sd-7
After quoting a number of statements made in Watchtower literature about the need of reporting child abuse to the authorities (amongst other crimes), the author of this article regarding child abuse says the following:
No Watchtower publication has ever been found contradicting the above statements.
Off the top of my head I can think of some, and more than likely some of those statements (you can see them at the bottom of that web page if you want) are actually the opposite of what has been said in the past. There is most certainly a Watchtower article that said that even if a person confessed to murder, as long as he did it before he was baptized, the elders had no responsibility to contact the authorities.
For one, this person quotes "a 1997 letter to the elders", but I'd have to see a scanned copy of it to know it was actually legitimate (and indeed it may be). For two, this person is quoting only one side of the story; the Society likes to sound very upstanding and clean, but also says some pretty terrible things as well.
How about all those articles where rape is equated to fornication? Even in 'My Book of Bible Stories', a Watchtower book written for children, what Shechem did to Dinah was considered wrong because they weren't married, not because it was rape. That hasn't been changed even though a revision of the book was done just a few years ago. That says all I need to know.
The author of this page clearly hasn't done a lot of research. He clearly wants to believe the Society's hands are clean in this because of the DF'ing arrangement and these published statements. But there are so many loopholes present in their system, and plenty of things that aren't actually written down but merely spoken instructions that could totally debunk all that.
In short, his kung fu is weak.
--sd-7
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31
DC Ramblings: A non-comprehensive review of some lowlights
by sir82 inrecently attended the dc.
there have been mny threads already on this, but here are some random thoughts giving my take on what i saw & heard.... .
-- attendance was about the same as last year, averaging around 8000 per session.
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sd-7
Jehovah provides all the spiritual food that is needed - but some feel it is not enough. Some are studying the original Hebrew and Greek that the Bible was written in, as if to check the accuracy of the New World Translation, then discussing their findings in private groups and online. You should read the foreward to the New World Translation. The New World Translation Committee had Jehovah's backing, these other groups do not."
So I wonder what this says about people who read Watchtower literature? Obviously, the Bible "is not enough", by their logic. The other thing is, having God's approval and being able to translate ancient Hebrew and Greek into English are two very different things--unless the speaker/the Society is claiming to have the ability to translate tongues by means of holy spirit. Otherwise, some academic credentials might be worth mentioning, you know?
The other thing is, the Watchtower itself routinely quotes from scholarly research on the original Hebrew and Greek themselves. Aren't they essentially indicating by doing so that they don't feel what Jehovah has provided is enough? The only difference between their research and private findings and mine is that one of us can publish said research in a magazine distributed worldwide and have it accepted as gospel, and the other is branded as a heretic and shunned.
So...are we really surprised that 1,000 people left at lunchtime? It was the only time you could sneak out without anyone wondering where you were going, so...why not? I, uh, left my cooler in the car. I'll...go see if it's okay....
--sd-7
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44
The JW's have far to much time on their hands LMAO!
by watersprout inmy sister sent me this link this morning and listed on there are names of ''known'' apostates!
i made the list yey!
so did my nine year old daughter lol!
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sd-7
The other surprise for me was that so many people from the Marvel universe are apostates! Spider-Man, Uncle Ben, Aunt May, Mary Jane, Green Goblin, the Fantastic Four, and Iron Man all made the list. Looks like there's going to be a major Marvel event: MARVEL HEROES VS. THE WATCHTOWER. I need to head over to the comic book store.
This is truly a bizarre website, man! Wow! It is actually creepy that this person spent this much time finding and making a list of all these names. And once again, repeats the Society's mistake of telling people not to think about elephants.
And in typical doublethink fashion, creates a website to remind people that the Society doesn't want people...to create websites...
--sd-7
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67
The Great Tribulation is picking up speed!!!!!!!!!!!!
by unbaptized inthe tribulation is really starting to speed up it's pace.
i just read that atleast 3 types of animal and plant life go extinct every hour.
global warming threatens the entire planet, crimes against women and children are at a all time high, honeybees dying off for unexplained reasons, the threat of nuclear war, the ravage of infectious disease.
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sd-7
The great stone 'not cut out by hands' has been hurtling towards all the kingdoms of this wicked system since 1914. Evidently, the great distance between heaven and earth is surely the explanation for what that stone has been doing the last 98 years--travelling at speeds beyond our comprehension towards this wicked system of things!
--sd-7
