The main reason JWs 'need' to shun 'apostates' is about information control.
Well, yeah, obviously. I guess it's not really an intentional implication, more so part of the ad hominem attack, to attribute this sort of quality to apostates.
--sd-7
Posts by sd-7
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26'Apostates want to draw people after themselves'--what are they really implying?
by sd-7 inwhen jws say this, what are they really saying?
i was pondering this recently, and i was thinking...what they're really trying to imply is simple:.
apostates are thus accused of attempting to be cult leaders.. because the idea is that since they're not getting people to follow christ, but follow themselves, then they want their 'victims'' belief system to be centered around an individual, following that person's directions.
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43
"Worldly people don't love the same as Jehovah's Witnesses"
by Comatose inin a conversation with my mum she said, "son the friends love you and care about you so much.
they would die for you.
that's something you don't find in the world.
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sd-7
The situation that really impressed this upon me was right as I was heading to my judicial committee three years ago. My car was stuck in the snow, and I didn't have a shovel as I'd just moved in and hadn't given that much thought. A total stranger let me borrow a shovel, and ANOTHER total stranger took over shoveling and got me out of my space!
All of this to go meet with three elders who are preparing to DF me. I'd already gotten more love from two people in the outside world in that simple act of kindness than I could get from three JWs in prominent positions.
For some reason they believe that by default their apparent 'accurate knowledge' makes them superior in practically all possible expressions of good. For them it doesn't really matter if they show compassion, all that matters is if they show up at meetings and turn in their time.
--sd-7
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26
'Apostates want to draw people after themselves'--what are they really implying?
by sd-7 inwhen jws say this, what are they really saying?
i was pondering this recently, and i was thinking...what they're really trying to imply is simple:.
apostates are thus accused of attempting to be cult leaders.. because the idea is that since they're not getting people to follow christ, but follow themselves, then they want their 'victims'' belief system to be centered around an individual, following that person's directions.
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sd-7
When JWs say this, what are they really saying? I was pondering this recently, and I was thinking...what they're really trying to imply is simple:
Apostates are thus accused of attempting to be cult leaders.
Because the idea is that since they're not getting people to follow Christ, but follow themselves, then they want their 'victims'' belief system to be centered around an individual, following that person's directions. In other words, a cult.
While of course the WT is projecting when it says this, it's an interesting thought. Christ and even God become their sock puppets for whatever the teaching is. Shunning relatives is a matter of loyalty to "God's commands" and not merely a shunning policy that is quite different from what the Bible actually says. Obeying the GB is the same as obeying Christ and accepting 'God's way of ruling'.
Maybe I'm going out on a limb here, but to me, follow that line of thought to its logical conclusion. If the idea is to draw people away from Christ so they can follow me, then I must be running a cult.
Personally, I don't want people following me. I want people to follow their own path. Waking up from the WT's spell is a very personal, individual path and while I don't mind helping as I have the ability (which is mostly by writing stuff on one website, which isn't exactly a lot), I know that people need to go their own way. It's the only way they'll become mature human beings instead of just dependent on someone else who may or may not be benevolent. Even if they were benevolent, it would still not help the person become mature. They have to grow by the choices they make on their own without anyone's undue influence.
If you choose to follow Christ, I wouldn't want to hinder you. Because the goal, in my opinion, is freedom, the freedom to choose your own belief system rather than being bound by any authority to believe some particular thing. Freedom is the real treasure. It has to be spent wisely or it can seriously harm you. Whatever you do, make sure you spend it in such a way that you get a rewarding return on your investment.
--sd-7
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25
How does TTATT affect your marriage??
by Crazyguy injust wondering of those of you that have left or are fading and have married ones still in, how is it going, is there hope or is the marriage doomed?
wondering what are the percentages.
i'm fading fast but wife is zealous as ever and we don't talk spiritual things at all anymore.
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sd-7
Well, some of that depends on who you married. For me, I'd say the relationship was irrevocably damaged by TTATT and has limped along so long as I have held onto a belief that it's only proper to honor my vows. Others have been able to get their spouses out. My wife has come to see it as a crutch and she probably feels she can't consider leaving for fear of returning to her old way of life. Thinking critically seems to frighten her.
It becomes the elephant in the room. For her I'm not sure if she's conscious of the elephant and the fact that it bothers me a lot, or at least of how much it bothers me every second; if anything she probably hopes I'll go back someday or something.
But for me, the way she treated me in the aftermath of it, it destroyed my love and respect for her. It's only because I'm a decent enough person to keep trying to save it all that it has survived. There's still hope of a greater peace someday. But not all that much.
--sd-7
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9
Watchtower's fortune without any audit and given account
by Gorbatchov inthe society has hit the jackpot with selling most of it's property in brooklyn, and some other prominent buildings outside the us.. so, they got an estimated $ 700 million dollar income and getting even more when they sell 124 columbia heights etc.. in total they will have then some $1 billion dollar on their bank and investment funds.. in the past questions about audit and giving account by the society about their finance, were answered "the brothers trust each other".. but now, the society has become a mayor financial player, this answer about trust is not enough anymore.. i asked my father about this and he told me "the money get a tag "world wide work and will be used only for good things, don't worry, trust them".. i told him that i don't trust them, because they act like a financial institute.
he told me "we are getting big, it's all part of fore told the publishing work".. so, speaking with jw family and friends is allways a dead end... :(.
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Do the WTS actually destroy all of your records if requested?
by Thoughtless inhello, sorry for the multiple posts, but this has also been a question of mine to ask.. .
does the wts actually destroy your files if you request them to after you get df'd?
i honestly do not believe so, yet i feel as if you cannot call them on their bs if you do.
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sd-7
sd-7 The scripture you quoted "he who dies has been acquitted from his sin" is talking about the former life of one who has now experienced the "new birth" in Christ.
Well of course it doesn't mean what the WT would say it means. I was just quoting it as an example of the logic they might use to justify 'reinstating' a resurrected DF'd person. They'd probably meet with him and read that scripture and then admonish him to sin no more or something...
--sd-7
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73
Bitter apostates
by Laika inwitnesses often go on about apostates being spiteful and bitter.
when you get cut off, shunned, or threatened with shunning just for the audacity of thinking differently, it's not surprising that getting angry at the witnesses is the reaction - it's like a self fulfilling prophecy.. but also, i recently posted an email from a 'friend' on this board who told me that everyone he'd spoken to about me said i had changed, become like another person.
it didn't occur to him that the day before i told my parents i'd quit the religion just 3 weeks ago, i met him for lunch, we had a good time and he didn't know anything was up.
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sd-7
Same meat, different gravy.
LOL, that is hilarious!
Hey, speaking as one who has actually read the Book of Mormon and D&C and the Pearl of Great Price, I don't think I could ever believe that. I was going to get into a detailed discussion of why I don't believe that, but I only read the books and talked to their missionaries for awhile maybe 11 or 12 years ago, so...far from an expert on the details. But the concepts and structure are too similar to JWs to be a coincidence.
Returning to the original post, yeah, I'm absolutely angry about having decades of my life stolen from me by a cult. I should be, anyone who was in that situation should be. There are days when the anger is too much to handle and it messes things up at home with the Mrs. But I'm not so much angry at the people as the fact that a handful of people are responsible for this much evil and no one can touch them. People going along with that is just too much to bear.
But I understand that most JWs are just trying to do the right thing. I don't like the condescending attitudes and the hate speech in the literature, or being shunned by people I once broke bread with. It's a bitter thing to taste, knowing that these same people rode in your car, laughed with you, maybe even listened to your problems at one time. But I get it. I know in their shoes I would've done the same thing, not knowing any better. I try to forgive as much as the pain will allow me to. But they're still on the side of the enemy, and if I have to engage them in a battle for the mind, I will. Otherwise, let 'em mind their business and I'll mind mine. Not in the mood for making disciples, just want to be left alone and not invited to any of their meetings or conventions, just want to be able to enjoy my life free of their judgments and their issues.
I generally don't discuss my beliefs about God and the Bible with JWs, with my wife, because I'm sure she wouldn't like it much. I'm not against the concept of there being a God, I just don't believe the Bible is or should be considered an accurate portrayal of such a being. If it is, there's just no way he wouldn't have obliterated us all over again by now. We've done stuff a lot worse than people in Noah's day or people like Nimrod. Either way, he seems pretty angry and arbitrary, and there are clear contradictions in the Bible that lead me to believe it is simply not of divine origin, but at best, a few dozen men's attempts at explaining their concept of God on paper, with some history as a backdrop. Just as JWs have a right to their beliefs, I have a right to mine. We can both call each other absurd or evil, but objective reality provides the proof of who is right and who is wrong. As long as reality is reality, how I feel about it is small change by comparison. I'll get over it eventually, but my life is richer by far than it was as a JW and I don't regret leaving at all, even with all the problems along the way. I'll take that over a lie any day of the week.
--sd-7
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District Convention and DF'd people
by Lynnie inso what was said at the latest dc about disfellowshipped people and how to treat them?
i've been df'd for 35+ years and of course it's been very difficult.
my mother is a diehard jw and is 83 years old, still pioneering etc.
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sd-7
I know I was watching a talk on YouTube about this issue, and I'm pretty sure they're trying to be really tough on this issue and making sure relatives are fully convinced that all of the fault and blame for not being able to communicate with a DF'd relative lies with the DF'd relative. So first they punish you by expelling you, then punish you again by saying it's your fault you can't communicate with your JW relatives (even though we would expel them for communicating with you). This is, of course, all done in the name of love. Prodigal son returns home and gets ignored for a year or more, then dear old dad sends three servants to meet with him to make sure he's not been out with harlots in the past year, then they ask him to write a letter confirming he hasn't been out with harlots blowing dad's cash, then dad warmly welcomes him back. What an amazing story.
--sd-7
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Sparlock and memories of childhood
by Laika inwhen i was about 6/7 there was a talk that made reference to the violence of teenage mutant ninja turtles.
when we got home, all my tmnj figures were packed up into a plastic bag and put away in the loft.
at least they weren't thrown in a wheelie bin.. when i was about 13 there was a local needs (yes, a whole talk) on the evils of pokemon, complete with the statement that pokemon was short for pocket demons (not true) no more pokemon blue for me.. i remember explaining to my pe (gym) teacher, in front of my whole class, that i could not play for the football (soccer!
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sd-7
When I was about 6/7 there was a talk that made reference to the violence of Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles. When we got home, all my TMNJ figures were packed up into a plastic bag and put away in the loft. At least they weren't thrown in a wheelie bin.
When I was about 13 there was a local needs (Yes, a WHOLE talk) on the evils of Pokemon, complete with the statement that Pokemon was short for pocket demons (not true) No more Pokemon Blue for me.
Wow, what a shame. We watched Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles all the time, had all the action figures, all of that. I played the heck out of Pokemon when I was in college and watched all the movies. Sorry to hear that.
I didn't feel much deprived of anything as far as entertainment. My mom was pretty liberal. She only recently figured out that Zelda had magic and demons in it, but we played those games for decades and I kinda always knew there was magic and demons in it, but it was a whole lot of fun because you got to use magic to kill demons. Talk about a paradox. Apparently Satan can expel Satan, so take that, Jesus!
Hmm. I didn't feel deprived in part because I went along with it out of fear and sincerely believed it was right if my mom made a choice about stuff like that for the most part. It was mostly on girls that we clashed, and even then very rarely, since I got rejected most of the time anyway.
Never knew what the holidays were like, vague memories at best. Never wanted to play on a sports team or join a club. Girls at school wanted me to consider going to the senior prom, but I knew my mom would never allow that so I didn't even broach the subject with her, much less try to go. Not that any girl asked me to take her to the prom--I was a pretty weird person back then, in my opinion--just sayin'.
I think the robbery was more so of my self-esteem and my ability to say no to people without feeling guilty about it. That's at least as bad as losing your favorite toy on account of the WT.
--sd-7
