A picture I snapshoot off my computer from the book Millennial DawnPlan of the Ages Vol. 1, 1886 in C.T. Russell's era off the http://www.a2z.org/wtarchive/archive.htm#magazines
Butterflyleia85
JoinedPosts by Butterflyleia85
-
11
Christmas Origins VS. Watchtower's 1914
by Butterflyleia85 inok sooo this of course has nothing to do with each other but the reasoning is beneficial for critical thinkers.
christmas is one of the most popular holidays that has spread throughout the world.
what one can think is that this holiday must have its significance, yes greatly influenced but in order for something to be so influenced it has to have ground of truth and honesty behind it.
-
-
-
8
Catching the Manipulation in Sundays Watchtower Article
by Butterflyleia85 ininspired by many on jwn board, my goal is to every sunday study the article and find the manipulative parts.
if you would like to join me that would be great!
we can then find them together and then find what the scriptures or insights truly means with research, our own understanding, or maybe how it should be interpreted to ones self.
-
-
Butterflyleia85
Haha funny punkof nice, thanks for your comment!
I know what you mean Diana! Ugh they always ruined everthing for sure. They would say ok yes with a big Buuuutt...
I remember one Overseer making a comment at our meeting he was saying how God favored this brother that worked a part time job and was a full pineer over another brother that went to college for four years and became a doctor.... wow how rude, they were both their while their parents were bragging to the overseer about this at a convention. He brought this up at his talk to exclaim how he felt that this brother stored more treasures in heaven, etc.
I was thinking wow well regardless I want to go to school and become a Architect or at least get into a good career where I am doing what I enjoy... Design Technology.
-
8
Catching the Manipulation in Sundays Watchtower Article
by Butterflyleia85 ininspired by many on jwn board, my goal is to every sunday study the article and find the manipulative parts.
if you would like to join me that would be great!
we can then find them together and then find what the scriptures or insights truly means with research, our own understanding, or maybe how it should be interpreted to ones self.
-
-
Butterflyleia85
Ok so I forgot to change the right source that was last weeks article source I posted... obviously if you look at the date you would be like... "ummm I think that was last weeks hun" lol
Study Article is for November 28 - December 4
from the October 15, 2011 Watchtower!
-
8
Catching the Manipulation in Sundays Watchtower Article
by Butterflyleia85 ininspired by many on jwn board, my goal is to every sunday study the article and find the manipulative parts.
if you would like to join me that would be great!
we can then find them together and then find what the scriptures or insights truly means with research, our own understanding, or maybe how it should be interpreted to ones self.
-
-
Butterflyleia85
Inspired by many on JWN board, my goal is to every Sunday study the article and find the manipulative parts. If you would like to join me that would be great! We can then find them together and then find what the scriptures or insights truly means with research, our own understanding, or maybe how it should be interpreted to one’s self. The benefit here is yes we have Critical Thinking Skills and/or we have the power of Holy Spirit.
Please ALL comments are welcome, for example:
For ones believing in God who uses prayer and Holy Spirit, others scriptures or interpretations are welcome!
For ones who don’t believe in God but enjoy theology using the scripture insight for their ethical principles, other sources, quotes, or words of wisdom are welcome!
Watchtower (Study) — September 15, 2011 for November 21-27
Is Your Recreation Beneficial
{paragraph 3, 4, 5} 3 Those who have a balanced view of recreation allow for diversity yet also recognize the need for limitations. Why so? To answer, let us compare entertainment with food. Popular dishes differ from one part of the world to another. In fact, what people in one area relish may be unappetizing to people elsewhere. In a similar manner, what Christians in one part of the world view as pleasant recreation may not be appealing to Christians elsewhere. Even among Christians living in the same area, what one may view as relaxing (perhaps curling up with a good book), another may view as boring; what one may view as refreshing (perhaps sightseeing on a bicycle), another may view as exhausting. Still, we accept that in such matters as food and recreation, there is room for diversity and personal preference.—Rom.14:2-4.
4 However, we also realize that allowing for diversity in recreation is not a license to indulge oneself. To illustrate, consider again the example of food. Though we may be willing to eat a variety of foods, we would not deliberately consume food that is rotten.
Eating such food would go against common sense and could endanger our health. Similarly, though we may be open to a variety of forms of wholesome entertainment, we would not pursue leisure activities that are life-threatening, violent, or morally rotten. Engaging in such activities would go against Bible principles and would endanger our physical or spiritual health. To make sure that we stay within reasonable limits, we do well to determine in advance whether some recreation that appeals to us is beneficial or not. (Eph. 5:10) How can we do so?
5 For recreation to benefit us and be pleasing in Jehovah’s eyes, it needs to meet specific standards set out in God’s Word. (Ps. 86:11) To determine whether that is the case regarding a type of recreation you may like, you might consult a simple checklist. The list is made up of three questions that can be summed up in the words what, when, and who. Let us consider them one at a time.
My examination is: If you just read this article alone not knowing what Jehovah’s Witness believe you would agree but when you do farther investigation on what they truly mean you would be surprised of the limitations they truly are referring too and accustom too. With all the studying and service meetings they do they really don’t have much time to pursue much to begin with.
Ah but in this article the Jehovah’s Witnesses are given a break for once, but still want to tell them there are limitations. This is article I found is focusing on the youth… or is it really? What Jehovah’s Witnesses don’t realize is that they are sheltering themselves from reality. Yes we don’t want to numb ourselves to what is wicked and horrible but we don’t want to be ignorant to what is out there and what we can learn from them. Ok now as far as entertainment and recreation, where will we be if we didn’t have athletics, musicians, actors, and folktale. Using imagination and creativity, the gift given by God. Perusing such things makes it greater in its development! Yes we can still be good Christians too.
{paragraph 8} 8 For instance, you may like sports, and that attraction is easily understood. Sports can be fun and exciting. What, though, if you are attracted to certain sports because of their aggressive competitiveness, excessive risk taking, high rates of injury, riotous celebrations, nationalistic fervor, or similar “ingredients”? After examining what is involved, you would likely decide that it would be hard to harmonize your thinking with Jehovah’s way of thinking and with the message of peace and love that we preach to others. (Isa. 61:1; Gal. 5:19-21) On the other hand, if a certain leisure activity is made up of “ingredients” that are wholesome in Jehovah’s eyes, then such recreation may well be beneficial and refreshing to you.—Gal. 5:22, 23; read Philippians 4:8.
My examination is: “Aggressive competitiveness” ok yeah but what about a balanced view of competiveness. Looking at the term:
Competition is a contest between individuals, groups, animals, etc. for territory, a niche, or a location of resources. It arises whenever two and only two strive for a goal which cannot be shared. Competition occurs naturally between living organisms which co-exist in the same environment. For example, animals compete over water supplies, food, mates, and other biological resources. Humans compete for water, food, and mates, though when these needs are met deep rivalries often arise over the pursuit of wealth, prestige, and fame. Business is often associated with competition as most companies are in competition with at least one other firm over the same group of customers.
{Paragraph 12} 12 So, then, when it comes to spending time on recreation, we do well to count the cost in advance. (Luke 14:28)We need to determine how much of our time a certain leisure activity will cost. Next, we must decide how much of our time it is worth. If pursuing a form of recreation will mean neglecting such important activities as personal Bible study, family worship, attending Christian meetings, or sharing in Kingdom preaching, it is not worth the price. (Mark 8:36) But if an occasional leisure activity energizes us to keep on pursuing Kingdom interests, we may well decide that the time we spend on that type of recreation is worthwhile.
My examination is: If you read the other articles they already guilt them into pursuing “Kingdom interest” first (Jehovah’s Witnesses or Governing Body work that keeps there organization rolling) and now they are reminding them of the cost. What is the cost? The cost of disfellowshipment and being exposed to “apostate” or thinking for themselves when they pursue a normal life.
{Paragraph 14} 14 Following Jesus’ example in choosing companions will be very helpful. From creation onward, Jesus had a love for humans. (Prov. 8:31) While on earth,
he showed loving consideration for all kinds of people. (Matt. 15:29-37) However, Jesus drew a line between being friendly and being a close friend. While he was friendly toward people in general, he was a close friend only to those who met specific requirements. Speaking to his 11 faithful apostles, Jesus stated: “You are my friends if you do what I am commanding you.” (John 15:14; see also John 13:27, 30.) The only individuals whom Jesus embraced as friends were those who followed him and served Jehovah.
My examination is: So does Jehovah’s Witnesses compare themselves perfect now? In righteous standing equal to Jesus? That they have the better judgment to choose their friends based on their obedience to their command? I think not. Don’t buy into the wording, for Jesus loves us all, that he died for us!! Let Jesus be are guide alone! Yes we do need to be careful of our friendships but we are nothing like Jesus who was perfect and neither are our friends. Look at what friendships are for and different types here- http://plato.stanford.edu/entries/friendship/
If you think about your life some friends hold a different portion in your life. I personally have girlfriends, work friends, mom friends, workout friends, my family friends… each one holding a special place in my life but I don’t expect them to hold the same morals or values as I do and yes I consider them my friends.
-
11
Christmas Origins VS. Watchtower's 1914
by Butterflyleia85 inok sooo this of course has nothing to do with each other but the reasoning is beneficial for critical thinkers.
christmas is one of the most popular holidays that has spread throughout the world.
what one can think is that this holiday must have its significance, yes greatly influenced but in order for something to be so influenced it has to have ground of truth and honesty behind it.
-
-
Butterflyleia85
http://4witness.org/jwquestions/qjw-christmas.php
this is also something I read conserning Pagan and Holidays.
pyramid prediction
http://mmoutreachinc.com/jehovahs_witnesses/586_607.html
more on 1914
-
11
Christmas Origins VS. Watchtower's 1914
by Butterflyleia85 inok sooo this of course has nothing to do with each other but the reasoning is beneficial for critical thinkers.
christmas is one of the most popular holidays that has spread throughout the world.
what one can think is that this holiday must have its significance, yes greatly influenced but in order for something to be so influenced it has to have ground of truth and honesty behind it.
-
-
Butterflyleia85
Ok Sooo this of course has nothing to do with each other but the reasoning is beneficial for critical thinkers. Christmas is one of the most popular holidays that has spread throughout the world. What one can think is that this holiday must have its significance, yes greatly influenced but in order for something to be so influenced it has to have ground of truth and honesty behind it. Over the years one can expect the celebration in each person’s culture to be made into their own but the very root of the celebration is what is most important. Now let’s in turn look at 1914 where did it originate, not many know it dates back further then the Jehovah’s Witness claim. This date and its significance to them marks the time of the coming of the Christ in heaven as king. The comparison is that 1914 is believe and held the most important date of our time. This is proof or a sign to the Jehovah Witnesses that we are closer to the end and that this was a start of God’s righteous rule to the earth! It gave Jehovah Witnesses ground for their very existence, what millions truly believe and mark in their time in history. More times than anything they mention this date over and over as a sign. Still don’t see the comparison well let save that for the end and get into the history of each that I am comparing for this will show some vital information in the end.
Christmas I found had more, farther roots then the 3rd and 4th Century. Its origin dates back to 202 C. E! That is farther back then when paganism came into the picture dating 275 C. E. So the original beliefs and intentions were of good celebration and purely for Jesus Christ! The claims that this is a pagan holiday can be dismissed and now shows proof this is a Christian holiday that has pagan attachments in attempt to paganize the holiday.
Evidence: “The earliest mention of such a feast comes from St. Hippolytus of Rome’s Commentary on Daniel, written in about 202 CE”
Evidence: “In the early fourth century, Constantine the Great became the first Roman emperor to convert to Christianity. As a result of his conversion, a number of innovations derived from paganism were introduced into Christian practice and belief, Christmas amongst them.”
Evidence: “Yet, in the first few centuries C.E., the persecuted Christian minority was greatly concerned with distancing itself from the larger, public pagan religious observances, such as sacrifices, games and holidays. This was still true as late as the violent persecutions of the Christians conducted by the Roman emperor Diocletian between 303 and 312 C.E.”
How they figured the date, December 25, makes perfect sense if you lay it all out and take a look at what was all in play, what was inherited in their culture like the Jewish influences and that of the Roman influences, and the calendars used in each region.
-Jewish calendar
-Julian calendar – started by Julius Caesar in 45 BCE (before Christ era)
-Revised Julian calendar
-Western roman Empire
-and East (especially in Egypt and Asia Minor)
Evidence: “According to Clement of Alexandria, several different days had been proposed by various Christian groups. Surprising as it may seem, Clement doesn’t mention December 25 at all. Clement writes: “There are those who have determined not only the year of our Lord’s birth, but also the day; and they say that it took place in the 28th year of Augustus, and in the 25th day of [the Egyptian month] Pachon [May 20 in our calendar]... And treating of His Passion, with very great accuracy, some say that it took place in the 16th year of Tiberius, on the 25th of Phamenoth [March 21]; and others on the 25th of Pharmuthi [April 21] and others say that on the 19th of Pharmuthi [April 15] the Savior suffered. Further, others say that He was born on the 24th or 25th of Pharmuthi [April 20 or 21].”
There are different calendars that were in picture when figuring out the dates and scholars had limited information from the bible as to what the exact birth of Christ was.
Evidence: “However, as the early Church was forcibly separated from Judaism, it entered into a world with different calendars, and had to devise its own time to celebrate the Lord’s Passion, not least so as to be independent of the rabbinic calculations of the date of Passover. Also, since the Jewish calendar was a lunar calendar consisting of twelve months of thirty days each, every few years a thirteenth month had to be added by a decree of the Sanhedrin to keep the calendar in synchronization with the equinoxes and solstices, as well as to prevent the seasons from “straying” into inappropriate months.
Apart from the difficulty Christians would have had in following—or perhaps even being accurately informed about—the dating of Passover in any given year, to follow a lunar calendar of their own devising would have set them at odds with both Jews and pagans, and very likely embroiled them in endless disputes among themselves. (The second century saw severe disputes about whether Pascha had always to fall on a Sunday or on whatever weekday followed two days after 14 Artemision/Nisan, but to have followed a lunar calendar would have made such problems much worse.)”
Read more: http://www.touchstonemag.com/archives/article.php?id=16-10-012-v#ixzz1fkflqMob
Side Note: This calendars used by Christians ALL around have roots of what is considered pagan today, if anyone actually looked up the term pagan and look at what brought on this festivals, it will give further evidence as to how overly exaggerated the term is used.
Keep in mind though; their motive for celebrating Jesus Christ birth was in fact to honor his life and the ransom sacrifice he made in his death!
They know of all the scriptures or scrolls that mentioned certain dates: claiming his age when he was baptized, people he grew up with, and foretelling of the Christ himself.
Evidence: “Jesus began to be about thirty years of age” (Luke 3:23)
They also had inspiration from the scripture for their methods of calculating the date.
What brought on the Claims that this was a pagan holiday Christianized is very important to know. Two particular individuals to blame as well as others:
Evidence: “In 1743, a German Protestant named Paul Ernst Jablonski, in an effort to discredit the Roman Catholic Church, claimed that the celebration of Christmas was one of the numerous “paganizations” of Christianity which had occurred in the fourth century.8 His grand thesis was that paganizations like the adoption of Christmas had degenerated Christianity from its original purity and led to the creation of the Roman Catholic Church.”
“In the late 17th and early 18th centuries, Dom Jean Hardouin, himself a Roman Catholic monk, in an attempt to counter the claims of Protestants that the Roman Catholic Church was the result of paganization of Christianity, unintentionally contributed to the myths about Christmas.9 He attempted, in his writings on the subject, to demonstrate that the Roman Church had adopted pagan festivals and Christianized them without corrupting the Christian gospel.”
Evidence: “It’s not until the 12th century that we find the first suggestion that Jesus’ birth celebration was deliberately set at the time of pagan feasts. A marginal note on a manuscript of the writings of the Syriac biblical commentator Dionysius bar-Salibi states that in ancient times the Christmas holiday was actually shifted from January 6 to December 25 so that it fell on the same date as the pagan Sol Invictus holiday.”
Evidence: A famous proponent of this practice was Pope Gregory the Great, who, in a letter written in 601 C.E. to a Christian missionary in Britain, recommended that local pagan temples not be destroyed but be converted into churches, and that pagan festivals be celebrated as feasts of Christian martyrs. At this late point, Christmas may well have acquired some pagan trappings. But we don’t have evidence of Christians adopting pagan festivals in the third century, at which point dates for Christmas were established. Thus, it seems unlikely that the date was simply selected to correspond with pagan solar festivals.
Side Note: And don’t be as naive as to the Governing Body using this against them even though they also have proof of errors in their history.
http://orthocath.wordpress.com/2010/11/30/christmas-and-pagan-origins/
http://www.bib-arch.org/e-features/christmas.asp
Ok now look at the Watchtower or Governing Body (claim their own scholarly title) and how they reason or claim the date 1914 as the coming of Jesus Christ. Their evidence is based on calculations from the scripture. Wrong, the calculations dates back further then that! It comes from astrologist who calculated the dates using pyramids and stars. The founder of Jehovah Witness used this and transformed it into saying it came from the scriptures. (Pagan influences) One way we can say this is true is that the actual scriptural calculation bringing to the date 1914 is not entirely calculated accurately. The formula they use is not at all a true formula. 1914 when using the formula backwards as to test and see if it came to the right date, comes to 586 B. C. not what it’s supposed to come to which is 607 B. C. (Refer to http://carm.org/1914-ad-607-bc-586-bc-and-jehovahs-witnesses , )
Now look at the comparison people believe what they want to believe. When digging up the past and looking at the influence and history, the beginning starts out so differently and thus can change ones thinking, ones very belief! It makes one wonder does the actual event matter? What we held so important and so true, does it change who we are and what we will become? What was actually important is what was there in front of our face all along: Family, Friends, Togetherness, Joy, Peace of mind, Hope, Happiness…Love!
Side Note: They are tons more evidence when one does research. But from when I read the information and decide to write this I didn’t save the sources along the way so I have to quickly go back and find the evidence which isn’t very many. If you would like to add to further proof that would be great!
Another Side Note: Jehovah’s Witnesses use to believe and celebrate Christmas at one point in time.
-
40
'Tis the Season: Christmas and "Pagan Origins"
by cabasilas insome thoughts on the so-called "pagan origins" of christmas:.
christmas and "pagan origins".
.
-
-
Butterflyleia85
Wow Leolaia How do you know all that stuff?! lol Isn't Enoch part of the bible though according to Wikipedia:
The Book of Enoch (also 1 Enoch [ 1 ] ) is an ancient Jewish religious work, traditionally ascribed to Enoch, the great-grandfather of Noah. It is not part of the biblical canon as used by Jews, apart from Beta Israel. It is regarded as canonical by the Ethiopian Orthodox Church and Eritrean Orthodox Church, but no other Christian group.
Interesting though did you find the connection of it's originality!
-
-
-
Butterflyleia85
Yes and I PMed you back! :)
-
86
Merry Pantsmas Everyone!
by Billy the Ex-Bethelite inokay, i posted this in a thread that got locked and buried.
since then i've been really busy and have overdosed on christmas music in the past week.
so, i'm resurrecting this "holy day" holiday that most people will unknowingly be celebrating tomorrow.
-
-
Butterflyleia85
hahaha awesome
-
40
'Tis the Season: Christmas and "Pagan Origins"
by cabasilas insome thoughts on the so-called "pagan origins" of christmas:.
christmas and "pagan origins".
.
-
-