Hey Cantleave, let me ask you, does your daughter, or kids, ever question why they're celebrating holidays now? What's their general attitude since your family got away from the WTS? Was it a smooth transition in regards to holidays, social events, etc?
miseryloveselders
JoinedPosts by miseryloveselders
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21
Progress Report ...
by cantleave inour daughter has been a part in the school easter play.. she will be celbrating her 1st 10th birthday on the 22nd.. she is adjusting so well to life without wts restrictions.
unlesss you have been a witness you won't understand how important these steps are.. i am delighted, so glad we are no longer indoctrinating our kids with the cult philosophy..
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Response to the Argument that Jehovah's Witnesses are not Cult Members
by bluecanary inthis is in response to the ezine article the argument that jehovah's witnesses are not cult members:.
this article is dangerously misinformed about (a) what constitutes a cult and (b) that the jws do in fact fit this category.
there is ample evidence of mind control, manipulation and cult tactics in this group, but you will not see it by casually chatting with a witness.
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miseryloveselders
well done.
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Possible Blood Doctrine Change: A Hypothetical Conversation with all JWs
by daniel-p injw>"but you lived anyway!".
jw>"...".
jw>"well, they'll be ressurected.".
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miseryloveselders
If they do, indeed, change it to being a conscience matter, than their previous interpretation of scripture was wrong. If it is just a "refinement", well, I touch on that above.
This was discussed in the other thread.....I tend to think this would send shockwaves throughout the JW world. This is a lot bigger than a refinement. This isnt the same as 1874, 1875, 1913, 1914, 1975, etc.. I understand you're hypothetical conversation, and how many JWs would downplay a change as major as this. However I believe firmly that there is a significant portion of unbelieving JWs looking for the smoking gun to walk away from this organization with dignity. My personal family situation would benefit if this rumour were to come to a realization. The powers that be in NY realize this, which is why i don't see this rumour as being true. Personally, I feel anyone believing this rumour is deluding themselves.
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What's your favorite Canadian band?
by lepermessiah insince we have a lot of canadian friends on this board, i have to ask - who are your favorite canadian bands?.
mine is rush.
they have been one of my favorite bands ever since i can remember.. they totally rule........the music and lyrics are all top notch.. the other one is the tea party - jeff martin is a genius.
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1 Corinthians 7:12, Paul states, "I, not the Lord", vs. 2 Timothy 3:16-17 and "all scripture" being inspired.
by miseryloveselders inthere's different translations regarding the corinthian text, but i pasted the new living translation 2007" version as its the most colorful.. now, i will speak to the rest of you, though i do not have a direct command from the lord.
if a christian man has a wife who is not a believer and she is willing to continue living with him, he must not leave her.. so paul highlights the fact that he's speaking from his view in this letter.
on the other hand we have paul's letter to timothy which goes, "all scripture is god-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness, 17so that the man of god may be thoroughly equipped for every good work.
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miseryloveselders
There's different translations regarding the Corinthian text, but I pasted the New Living Translation 2007" version as its the most colorful.
Now, I will speak to the rest of you, though I do not have a direct command from the Lord. If a Christian man has a wife who is not a believer and she is willing to continue living with him, he must not leave her.
So Paul highlights the fact that he's speaking from his view in this letter. On the other hand we have Paul's letter to Timothy which goes, "All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness, 17 so that the man of God may be thoroughly equipped for every good work. ".
So I'm curious as to your views on this. The verse in 2 Timothy is often used as a blank check to justify anything and everything as being substantial and worth our consideration if found in the Canon. However on the other hand, Paul admits in the letter to the Corinthians that he was speaking from "his own" views, and not that of the Christ. To me at least, this raises a couple questions. Should I consider all scripture as inspired, and use all of it, as a law in my life as if God directly spoke it? Should I discard certain things, considering Jesus put an end to the way things were done, and the way people thought prior to His life and death?
There's other questions related to these that can be raised, please share them if I missed them. Share your thoughts, as I'm curious.
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Scientology Down to 25,000 Members?
by cameo-d inhttp://www.nytimes.com/2010/03/07/us/07scientology.html.
quotes:.
it was all built on lies, mr. collbran said.
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miseryloveselders
This article creeps me out. The similarities between them and JWs is insane.
They signed a contract for a billion years — in keeping with the church’s belief that Scientologists are immortal. They worked seven days a week, often on little sleep, for sporadic paychecks of $50 a week, at most. Whats Bethel's hours and pay scale like nowadays? Not to mention they're expected to keep up with their individual congregation's meetings and field service.
“Why did we work so hard for this organization,” Ms. Collbran said, “and why did it feel so wrong in the end? We just didn’t understand.” Sounds like the average new poster on here.
They soon discovered others who felt the same. Searching for Web sites about Scientology that are not sponsored by the church (an activity prohibited when they were in the Sea Org), they discovered that hundreds of other Scientologists were also defecting — including high-ranking executives who had served for decades. Its amazing when you come on forums like JWN or find out about Ray Franz, how exciting it feels to know you were never alone in your thoughts.
The church has responded to the bad publicity by denying the accusations and calling attention to a worldwide building campaign that showcases its wealth and industriousness. Last year, it built or renovated opulent Scientology churches, which it calls Ideal Orgs, in Rome; Malmo, Sweden; Dallas; Nashville; and Washington. And at its base here on the Gulf Coast of Florida, it continued buying hotels and office buildings (54 in all) and constructing a 380,000-square-foot mecca that looks like a convention center. This is how the WTS pats itself on the back bragging about KH construction, Assembly Hall construction, their latest plans for moving operations out of Brooklyn, etc..
As for the defectors, Mr. Davis called them “apostates” and said that contrary to their claims of having left the church in protest, they were expelled. Are Scientologists even a religion? Shouldnt they have their own term for those that "stand away from"?
Scientology is an esoteric religion in which the faith is revealed gradually to those who invest their time and money to master Mr. Hubbard’s teachings. The light gets brighter and brighter. Jehovah reveals His truth gradually.
They may spend hundreds of hours in one-on-one “auditing” sessions, holding the slim silver-colored handles of an e-meter while an auditor asks them questions and takes notes on what they say and on the e-meter’s readings. We spend hours upon hours studying, at meetings going over what we've studied. For some thats not enough, and they have recreational outing where they study some more.
Her parents were dedicated church members in Los Angeles, and she attended full-time Scientology schools for several years. When she was 8 or 9, she took the basic communications course, which teaches techniques for persuasive public speaking and improving self-confidence and has served as a major recruiting tool. The Theocratic Ministry School, The Service Meeting. Gillead, The Ministerial Training School, the rumoured upcoming Elder's school, etc..
By 16, she was recruited into the Sea Org, so named because it once operated from ships, wearing a Navy-like uniform with epaulets on the shoulders for work. She fully believed in the mission: to “clear the planet” of negative influences by bringing Scientology to its inhabitants. Her mindset then, Ms. Collbran said, was: “This planet needs our help, and people are suffering. And we have the answers.” We fully believe, or believed our mission that people needed to know "the Truth." We could care less about any practical help when someone needed it, the only thing we were concerned about was our hours and leaving magazines and books that would benefit people's lives.
It was in Johannesburg, where the couple had gone to supervise the building of a new Scientology organization, that Mr. Collbran, who is 29, began to have doubts. He had spent months at church headquarters in Clearwater revising the design for the Johannesburg site to meet Mr. Miscavige’s demands. This is how it happens I bet for many. When I got appointed, thats when something went off in my head that something was wrong. Reading other's stories on this forum, it seems to be the same for them.
The church acknowledges that Sea Org members are not allowed to have babies, but denies that it pressures people into having abortions. On the pay issue, it says that Sea Org members expect to sacrifice their material well-being to devote their lives to the church. Same with the WTS as they'll never admit to having actual rules banning college, or discouraging marriage, community work, articles that promoted selling of homes, articles that promoted not having children as the end was so close, etc.. Its classic doublespeak and dishonesty.
The Collbrans, despite their efforts to remain in good standing in the church, were declared suppressive persons last year. The church discovered that Mr. Collbran had traveled to Texas to talk with Mr. Rathbun, the defector who runs a Web site that has become an online community for what he calls “independent Scientologists.” The church immediately sent emissaries to Ms. Collbran’s parents’ house in Los Angeles to inform them that their daughter was “suppressive,” Ms. Collbran said. They have refused to speak to her ever since. Recently, Ms. Collbran received an e-mail message from her mother calling her a “snake in the grass.” How many on here have lost the relationship they had with their parents over the WTS? How many are in fear of losing that relationship?
Ms. Collbran says she still believes in Scientology — not in the church as it is now constituted, but in its teachings. She still gets auditing, from other Scientologists who have defected, like Mr. Rathbun. Mr. Davis said there is no such thing: “One can’t be a Scientologist and not be part of the church.” We see that here on this board, and I'm guilty of it too. I believe JWs have nailed certain things. Certain things I agree with them on 100%. I still have guilt trips from lurking and posting on this forum periodically. I feel like a traitor some days, sometimes get the urge to do more for the WTS as in more field service amongst other things.
Mr. Collbran, for his part, wants nothing to do with his former church. “Eventually I realized I was part of a con,” he said, “and I have to leave it and get on with my life.” Sounds like plenty on this forum who've been hurt and burned by the WTS.
Despite all they have been through together, Ms. and Mr. Collbran are getting a divorce. The reason, they agree sadly, is that they no longer see eye to eye on Scientology. This is how it goes with current and former JWs. I guess this is what Jesus meant when he talked about how he would divide families.
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35
How Much are Your Conditional Friends Worth?
by leavingwt inupon learning that wt was not "god's organization", i was devastated.
for two decades i had spent valuable time building friendships, mostly with jws.
during my stay at bethel, i made many fine friends, some of them very close.
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miseryloveselders
What about family? That one's tougher...and harder to deal with. Even there, they may be a point when we have to make a decision in order to be at peace with ourselves. But that's up to each person and their particular set of circumstances.
Thats what I'm struggling with now. I've got both of my Folks, and two siblings who have families all in the Truth. My mother is a 2nd generation JW, 2nd generation Pioneer, and her mother, my Grandmother is a old school die hard JW and still pioneering in her early 90s and not fudging her hours. I'm independent, but it would kill my folks and siblings, if I leave. The bad part is, me staying, is killing me. I'd just like to die some days. Just step off of the planet and yell, "Adios!"
As far as the conditional friends are concerned, AKA "The Friends", any more I spend only the bare minimum of time with them. After meetings, if I don't have to clean or sit in another meeting, or if someone doesnt need to talk with me about something...I leave pretty much immediately. Often I'm tired from work anyway and want some quiet time. I'm kind of an odd man out due to my age. Other guys in the Hall are married and older, and the younger guys in there are too young for me to relate to all that well. When I talk with the "older friends", I feel my brain slowing down to the point it hurts my head and my chest. Its like being at McDonalds to get breakfast to go, and your running late for work, and you picked the register with the special person taking orders. It can be hard talking with older people sometimes. There's a couple Elders who I'm not that fond of. They purchase their parts on Circuit Assemblies. Litterally purchase those parts by taking the CO/DO out to eat, giving them gifts, etc.. These are cowardly, gutless men who when they shake my hand, I have this urge to just dot their eye. Then there are other friends who just use you. They need a ride here, or there. They need help moving, but they have extended family, yet they call you cuz "your nice." These type of friends, when you see their name pop up on your cell phone, you cringe, or think of a four letter word that begins with the letter "S". This religion man, it just............words don't describe some days.
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To our children - your deaths are justifiable
by sd-7 in***w50 11/15 p.463 questions from readers***.
***w50 11/15 p.463 questions from readers***.
***w51 5/1 p.286 questions from readers***.
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miseryloveselders
The law, as stated at Deuteronomy 24:16, shows that fathers were not to be put to death for their sons nor were sons to be put to death for their fathers. In man’s administration of justice each was to die for his own sin, and not drag innocent relatives down with him. In this particular case of David and Bath-sheba neither of them had a right to the child and so there was no injustice in their being deprived of it. Besides, as an uncircumcised, unnamed infant it had not as yet developed any personality pattern or consciousness so as to appreciate life. Then again, Bath-sheba could have been stoned to death for her adultery, in which case the unborn child would also have perished.
That paragraph is contradictory..........so the child was uncircumcised and unnamed making its life irrelavent. If it lives or dies, so what......because its foreskin remained and it didnt have a personality yet. Hmmmm.....in the same paragraph, there's an anti-abortion stance because the life of an unborn child is precious so they couldnt stone the mother for fear of hurting the uncircumsizied and personality deprived unborn child. Hmmmmm . I have a headache now.
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Has Springtime Hit Home Yet?
by compound complex inis it spring or still winter where you live?
any photos to prove it?.
coco .
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miseryloveselders
We're getting over major snow storms where I'm at. The heaviest snow this area has recieved since the early 90's was about a month ago. For the past week, the Sun has been shining gloriously. It's melting all of this nasty stuff. There's 6 foot mounds of dirty snow/ice that people had shoveled to make room for parking. Every day, I notice they shrink just a little bit, and there's water flowing down certain streets from them melting. Some streets look like a minor water break took place. The sun was so bright this morning, that I had to close the blinds where i work, as the glare on my monitor made it impossible to work. Been a heck of a Winter, glad its almost over. I say almost, cuz this area can get snow in mid to late April.
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New light on blood?
by Mickey mouse inthis is prompted by barbara's new article at freeminds and a message someone sent to my youtube account a month ago.. there are rumours that there will be "new light" this year about blood transfusions.
if this happens, i for one will be speaking up and asking who is accountable for all the lives lost due to the wt's death dealing policy.
this is an opportunity for all those who still have some connections with jws to make people think..
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miseryloveselders
If, in the unlikely case, they do make this totally a "matter of consciense" - there might well be far more negative reaction by the witness rank & file than there was to the repeated stumbling on the "generation". This is too obvious to not make a big reaction.
I think the WTS just has too many chips into the "no blood transfusions" hand to fold it up now.
This is what I was thinking. I'm not even at the skeptical point. I don't have one bit of confidence in this rumour. Sometimes I wonder if we desire reform in this organization so much that we delude ourselves into thinking that someday things will change for the better. The WTS reversing their blood policy would be the equivalent of the Raiders going from Black and Silver, to Pink and Yellow. Can you imagine the shockwaves this would have? As you mentioned JWoods this isnt the same as a confusing "This Generation" which I don't believe the average JW gives a hoot about anyway. The Blood policy is more relavent. Them reversing this policy would be like giving those on the verge of leaving, or any having doubts, a blank check to walk away from the WTS with very little fallout. Not even one the most diehard of JW relatives could find a reason to argue against a family member being stumbled by a reversal of the blood policy. What would they say? What could they say? For the GB to admit even the slightest hint of having been wrong on blood all this time would be devestating to their control. We just had a 1/2 hour part on Blood a month ago during the Service Meeting. Brand new Blood DPAs. Only to have these DPAs become obsolete a few months to a year later? I doubt it.