garyneal

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Posts by garyneal

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  196

  The struggle against the immediae danger from false teachers

  by mrsjones5 in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  golly, i feel like a householder.

  you're counting time here, aren't ya?

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  garyneal

  ATJ said to PJS: Thank you PJS, you reminded me of all that I miss about being a JW. My feelings have certainly been changed, and I can see the error of my ways. Thus, the next time I play werewolf, I will insist on not being the werewolf. See YOU at the meetings.

  PJS:

  You have won a brother! (Sorry, couldn't resist.)
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  196

  The struggle against the immediae danger from false teachers

  by mrsjones5 in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  golly, i feel like a householder.

  you're counting time here, aren't ya?

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  garyneal

  PJS:

  You're just telling me the same things the elder of my wife's KH told me. He printed a lot of information where the society quoted many secular sources confirming that something changed in 1914. But none of that references any Bible verses. If you're trying to tell me that there are clear signs that we are living in the last days all I have to say is you're preaching to the choir. I do not disagree with you at all on that.

  I just want to know how the Society can claim that Jesus Christ returned invisibly in 1914? Many preachers and the Watchtower society has tried to predict when Jesus will return, even setting dates, and they all proved false. I believe Jesus is coming again, but I don't see how the Society claims that he came invisibly in 1914. I think I brought this subject up somewhere else before.
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  196

  The struggle against the immediae danger from false teachers

  by mrsjones5 in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  golly, i feel like a householder.

  you're counting time here, aren't ya?

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  garyneal

  cyberjesus:

  You're right in that her beliefs can impact our family in a big way, especially concerning the blood issue. I posted a topic on this very issue a few weeks or so ago, so yes it is very much a concern of mine. But at the same time, I try not to let it eat me up because if I did, then I am not placing enough faith in God for as Jesus said (paraphrasing) 'to not take thought for tomorrow for sufficient for today is the evil thereof.'

  I am very mindful of the church I attend now. I too was 'burned' by religious teachers who are legalistic and dogmatic (like the Watchtower). I've left many churches because they would teach (or do) things that I did not agree with and sometimes I would leave church because I would wonder what's the use. But I've been sticking to a church I started attending recently and I check their teachings and practices against the Bible. In fact, I called them out on something they did that I did not agree with. But unlike the Watchtower, this is allowed for we are required to check all things and hold fast to what is good. I don't know if I will eventually leave this church because of this issue or not, but I do know that if we are looking for the 'perfect' church, we will never find it.

  You are very correct in that we should question everything (1 Thessalonians 5:21) and validate it against what the Bible says. I see you are new to the forum (welcome) and it is my sincerest hope that you do not abandon God due to the teachings of the Watchtower. A link I like to read concerning the differences between a religion and a relationship with Christ can be found here. (http://www.4jehovah.org/help-jw-why-religion.php)
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  22

  A few questions concerning Jehovah's Witnesses doctrines

  by garyneal in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  for those familiar with my postings already know, i am a christian who is married to an active jehovah's witness (though not yet baptized).

  we discuss issues concerning the witnesses and their doctrines and have had "bible studies" with one of the elders.

  i've asked her about some of these things and i would like to share her responses and see if it lines up with watchtower teachings.. can a police officer become a jehovah's witness?.

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  garyneal

  cawshun:

  I think with it being football season, they (or the brother who gave the talk) must have figured this would be a good topic to bring up. From what my wife said, she referred to people who go all out for their team, dressing in team colors or painting themselves in team colors and chearing from the stands.

  This sounds eerily similar to what I use to hear from that old Independent Fundamental Baptist church I use to attend. I remember the preacher would tell his people not to miss church on Sunday night because you want to stay home and watch the superbowl. God expects us to be in His house whenever the doors are open. I can understand the commitment we're suppose to have towards God and it is hard to argue with that point, but I don't know. I just feel like sometimes we (Christian teachers not me personally) walk a fine line between being a moral compass, guide, and bringing the good news to others, and being controlling and abusive though unintentional. The Watchtower has certainly overstepped this bound and has done lots of damage and hurt lots of people in this regard.

  I can remember back when I was in those Independent Fundamental Baptist churches feeling at times very depressed thinking that no matter what I did, it was never good enough. I can clearly see this attitude exhibited amongst the witnesses (both current and former). I just don't believe that God wants us to feel this way from the one place that is suppose to be our sanctuary (the church).
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  196

  The struggle against the immediae danger from false teachers

  by mrsjones5 in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  golly, i feel like a householder.

  you're counting time here, aren't ya?

  .

  1. 
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  garyneal

  PJS:

  I hear what you are saying and you are right, God does call us to do things that we do not understand just make sure that it is truly God and not the Society for we must 'test the Spirits' against what the Bible teaches. As I heard one preacher put, there are no prophets in the world today for we have the written word of God. So make sure you test every spirit (inspired expression) against the word of God and you will do well.

  I also agree that for many things it really is a matter of concious. If you feel that celebrating birthdays, taking in blood, etc is a sin then do not do those things. There are some things the Bible clearly speaks out against (adultery, fornications, murder, blasphemy) and are not matters of concious but for other things where the Bible is not so clear (birthday celebrations) we cannot be dogmatic about it. While the Society tend to use this term more frequently than most Christians, make sure you are mindful not to cause others to stumble.

  It is difficult in my household for I want to respect my wife's concious concerning the holidays but I don't want to totally deny myself or my daughter of them too. I'm thinking maybe I could do something special just for her that is allowed by the Society but I am not yet sure of what. Since you are the witness, do you have any suggestions?
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  196

  The struggle against the immediae danger from false teachers

  by mrsjones5 in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  golly, i feel like a householder.

  you're counting time here, aren't ya?

  .

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  garyneal

  cyberjesus:

  Since I am not in the religion (just my wife) it does not really matter if they change or not. In regards to 1914, the change will be subtle, but I think they will eventually sweep it under the rug. I base this off how they covered up their previous dates, few Jehovah's Witnesses will speak of 1975 and some of the newer ones do not even know about it. Oh, they will still preach that we are living in the last days but to a Christian, they're preaching to the choir for we too believe that.

  In regards to birthdays, all I can say to that is that there are some individual witnesses who are wondering why the Society took such a stance on it. I doubt this change will happen any time soon, but maybe in 50 years. Again, I am just guessing and I could be wrong. As far as blood is concerned, medical science will probably need to catch up with them for it would not be wise to all of a sudden make it a concious matter. Still, I would not be surprised if the society allows more and more blood fractions. If they do change at all it will most likely just strongly discourage its use but stop making it so that if a witness takes the blood, he or she will not be considered disassociating from the organization.
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  196

  The struggle against the immediae danger from false teachers

  by mrsjones5 in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  golly, i feel like a householder.

  you're counting time here, aren't ya?

  .

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
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  garyneal

  PJS:

  Your willingness to stand up for your faith is admirable. We Christians must do the same thing but remember that we must follow 1 Peter 3:15-16 "...But do this with gentleness and respect, 16 keeping a clear conscience, so that those who speak maliciously against your good behavior in Christ may be ashamed of their slander."

  Remember attacks against you personally are 'ad hominem' attacks and the attacker has lost the battle if he or she resorts to this. It cuts both ways as we are all imperfect but we must strive not to resort to these types of attacks ourselves. If the attacker is sincere and humble, he or she will eventually regret the ad hominem attack and apologize. If not, you've done your part and stood firm on your foundation so there is nothing else you need to prove.

  May the Lord bless you in your chosen path, I recall your making a good observation on the issue of the Society's stance on blood. Maybe there are enough people like you on the inside who will be able to influence the organization from within.

  Here are some issues that I feel that the Society will officially change on (though nothing is certain).

  Celebrating Birthdays will become a concious matter. Why? Because their reasoning is faulty and if they try to use the blowing out of the birthday candle to ward off demons or allow some spirit to grant wishes, then they must see the hypocrisy of them allowing wedding rituals.

  1914 will be quietly "swept under the rug." Why? Because it is not really supported in Scripture nor is it supported by documented evidence and the Society knows this. Any Jehovah's Witness who is truly honest about this will have to conclude this too. The Society will never officially declare new light on the teaching as it will cause too many witnesses to stumble. They will just simply let it fade in the minds of the Jehovah's Witnesses and talk about it less and less.

  I doubt they will completely drop the blood issue but they may allow more and more blood fractions to be allowed. I feel the medical community will need to catch up with the Society and be able to provide an alternative. That will be the most likely thing to happen. Perhaps they will not be so dogmatic to their followers concerning the 'take blood and lose your everlasting life' stance. But they will strongly recommend against taking it.

  Love In Christ
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  21

  The Watchtower Society owns businesses?

  by garyneal in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  in my previous topic alwayshere said the following:.

  you asked "can a jw join the military?

  " her answer "no all the military is good for is killing people and destroying things.

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  garyneal

  In my previous topic alwayshere said the following:

  You asked "Can a JW join the Military?" Her answer "No all the Military is good for is Killing people and destroying things." The Watchtower Society owns 50% of a company that makes war weapons that kill and destroy. All you have to do is go to your "search" and type in "Watchtower and warfare technology." That organization is guilty of everything they say "do not do." Hypocrites and Liers run that organizations.

  I am not here to actually 'throw stones' for I am sure that many large Christian groups 'owns' things too. I would not be at all surprised to find out that Pat Robertson's, Jimmy Swaggert's, or the late Jerry Falwell's ministries owns and controls businesses. I am somewhat surprised though given the Watchtower's "we cannot be part of the world" stance. I would think that most not-for-profit businesses are more interested in pushing a greater good (such as the Watchtower and its spreading spiritual food to its Kingdom Halls). I grew up in the 1980's and am very familiar with the PTO and other televangelist scandals. The way the Watchtower points to certain leaders within the Christian communities as villianous while covering its own spots seems a little disingenuous.

  What are your thoughts? Can any of this be verified?
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  22

  A few questions concerning Jehovah's Witnesses doctrines

  by garyneal in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  for those familiar with my postings already know, i am a christian who is married to an active jehovah's witness (though not yet baptized).

  we discuss issues concerning the witnesses and their doctrines and have had "bible studies" with one of the elders.

  i've asked her about some of these things and i would like to share her responses and see if it lines up with watchtower teachings.. can a police officer become a jehovah's witness?.

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  garyneal

  Thanks for the replies everyone. I especially thank Blondie for posting the answers straight from the source of my wife's belief's (the Watchtower). My wife gives me flack concerning how I "twist" the scriptures to suit my own ends. But I keep trying to tell her it is not the Bible, or God, that I disagree with, it is the Watchtower's interpretations of it that I find questionable. Adding things to scripture which isn't really there. I cited one example that I took issue with back when I became a Christian, the Southern (and Independent Fundamental) Baptist teachings on 'thou shalt not dance.' The Independent Fundamental Baptists went further stating that one cannot listen to rock music, including Christian Rock, Country music, Rap music, etc.. While I will admit that some of that stuff isn't wholesome, to make a blanket statement like that is a bit draconian. The Independent Fundamental Baptists were the church I associated with for the first few year of my new Christian life. They rival the Watchtower in their legalism.

  Making statements like the following:

  IFB: You can play the piano but how many souls have you won for Christ? Christ commands us to go out soul winning (ie. door to door preaching).
  WT: We must continue to go out door to door preaching the Kingdom.

  IFB: If you are a member of a church and you attend another church, that is the same as committing adultery against the home church!
  WT: Witnesses do not attend other churches as this is the same as spiritual fornication.

  IFB: Rearrange the letters of Santa, and you have Satan. Can you see how Satan infiltrated the Lord's Holiday? It's CHRISTmas, not XMAS!
  WT: Satan is influencing the world to partake in holiday traditions like Christmas which is not really Jesus' birthday. This is a pagan teaching.

  I can go on, but you get the idea....

  TD says: As the unbelieving husband of an active JW

  I find it funny how people on both sides of the aisle call each other the unbeliever. To a Jehovah's Witness, the Christians are the unbelievers. The reverse it true to the Christians. My wife's KH sits right next door to a Baptist church. I made a comment on multiple occasions and to multiple people that I can imagine the Baptists on one side of the yard, pointing to the witnesses on the other side while the witnesses are pointing to the Baptists. Both groups saying, "We have the Truth and YOU'RE living a lie!"

  diamondiiz said: When athiests hear religious people speak no wonder they roll their eyes and are glad they are no part of religion as most religious people repeat what they've learned from their religious leaders and that's what they follow but hopefully their religions are not so controlling that they can't reject at least some of the crap that is thaught by their religious leaders.

  I would agree that religious zealots (though well meaning and intentioned) make Christianity look bad. Jesus railed against the religious leaders of His day and we should all do well to examine ourselves to ensure that we are not becoming religious. I must point out that I had realized how the Jehovah's Witnesses seemed to "idolized" the Watchtower a few months ago but I did not point this out until my wife made it a point to make Christians out to look like they idolized the cross. I guess we should be quick to remind ourselves that before we try to remove the specs out of someone else's eye, that we make sure their are no logs in our own. Approach people with kindness and love if you find them doing something that disagrees with the Bible. We walk a fine line between being totally non-judgemental, allowing anarchy and confusion to enter the body of Christ, and becoming legalistic and controlling.

  black sheep says: Round and round and round and round and round and round and round and round and round and round and round and round and round and round and round and round and round and round and round and round and round and round and round and round you go.

  I know and sometimes it is discouraging. I'm afraid she is going to have to see for herself from within her own group in order to realize it.

  It's hard to present the good news of Christian freedom to someone like this. She either has to cut out the things she enjoys completely (holidays, birthdays, etc.) or partake in them and face Jehovah's wrath. No balanced view of such things at all.
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  22

  A few questions concerning Jehovah's Witnesses doctrines

  by garyneal in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  for those familiar with my postings already know, i am a christian who is married to an active jehovah's witness (though not yet baptized).

  we discuss issues concerning the witnesses and their doctrines and have had "bible studies" with one of the elders.

  i've asked her about some of these things and i would like to share her responses and see if it lines up with watchtower teachings.. can a police officer become a jehovah's witness?.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  garyneal

  For those familiar with my postings already know, I am a Christian who is married to an active Jehovah's Witness (though not yet baptized). We discuss issues concerning the witnesses and their doctrines and have had "Bible Studies" with one of the elders. I've asked her about some of these things and I would like to share her responses and see if it lines up with Watchtower teachings.

  Can a police officer become a Jehovah's Witness?
  My wife and I passed a lot of state troopers on the way to the state fair in Richmond, VA and I told her that I had heard that police officers are not allowed to become witnesses. Her response, "Why not?" I said that I think it has something to do with them carrying a gun. She said, "If that is the case, Jehovah's Witnesses cannot be hunters either since hunters carry guns." So police officers can be Jehovah's Witnesses. "Sure they can," she said.

  To the group I ask, is this true? Can police officers be Jehovah's Witnesses?

  My follow up, "Can a Jehovah's Witness join the military?" "No they cannot," she replied. "Why not? Do they not carry guns also just like the police force?" Her reply, "The police force serves to protect the citizens. All the military is good for is killing people and destroying things." I replied, "What if another country tries to attack or invade us, our police officers would not be equiped to handle their military." Her response, "Well if no country had a military, we would not have to worry about war or anything like that and we would not need our military." My response, "Well according to that reasoning, if everyone was peaceful and law abiding, we would not need a police force either."

  Conclusions: You can be a police officer or a hunter and be one of the Jehovah's Witnesses, but you cannot be in the military. According to my wife that is. But I thought the Watchtower did not allow neither police officers nor people in the military to become Jehovah's Witnesses.

  My wife buys lottery tickets. I thought that too was not allowed by the society but I never say anything when she buys them.

  The multiple choice questionaire...

  One of the booths at the state fair was passing out questionaires asking people theological questions concerning salvation.

  Question 1: I believe I am: a) a good person, b) a religious person, c) a sinner, d) too bad to get to heaven.
  She picked A, the correct answer is C (we are all sinners for there is none righteous).

  Question 2: Jesus Christ loves and cares for: a) good people, b) only people who attend church, c) sinners, d) only innocent children.
  She picked B, the correct answer is C (Romans 5:8).

  Question 3: To get to heaven you must: a) follow the Golden Rule or obey the Ten Commandments, b) do good, be water baptized, attend church, c) ask Jesus into your heart, d) do nothing -- there is no hell.
  This question I will admit is tricky for a witness since most believe they are not going to Heaven and of course she did make this point. All Jehovah's Witnesses also believe in no literal hell (mentioned in choice d). For Christians, the correct answer is C (John 3:16). She ultimately said all of the above which certainly illustrates the need for a witness to keep working to obtain his or her salvation (a), get baptized and attend all meetings (b), believe in the ransom sacrifice of Jesus (c), and (leaving out the 'do nothing' part) deny the teaching of hell fire (d).

  Question 4: Jesus Christ is: a) one of several great teachers, b) someone to imitate as a way to heaven, c) the only way to heaven, d) a myth.
  I forgot her answer but since she did not believe she is going to heaven I don't think B and C were her choices. For Christians the correct answer is C (John 14:6).

  Question 5: If we do not believe in Jesus Christ we can: a) do good and hope for the best, b) believe in a mystical, higher power, c) be sure we will go to hell, d) believe in Muhammed, Buddha, or the Pope.
  I don't recall her answer but again since witnesses do not believe in hell, the correct answer of C would make no sense to them.

  The talk on idolatry...

  Apparently the Kingdom Hall had a talk today concerning idolatry. The usual line up of idols: the cross, money, and sports. Christians worship the cross, sports fanatics will attend games and even miss their meetings to attend them, and people go after the almighty dollar and not put Kingdom interest first.

  My main point of contention was the cross. So Christians worship the cross, I've never seen anyone call a cross God and do acts of worship to it. I've seen people in church come to an altar (which may or may not have a cross displayed above it) and pray on their hands and knees to God, but are they worshipping the altar? If so, then are children and adults who pray on their knees beside their beds at night worshipping their beds? She said, "Well you know people would carry crosses around as if it is their 'good luck' charm." Okay, I will agree that neither the cross or any other symbol has power to bring good fortunes (like the way one mail order company was selling the 'Our Lady of Medjugorje' charm or the 'Rub the Buddha for Money' charm). I also agree that God is not to be found in a building or an image. The Bible says that 'whereever two or more are gathered together', God is there with us.

  Then I asked her to not take offense to what I was about to say next but I've noted that whenever I disagree with a Watchtower teaching I am either trying to 'disprove the Bible' or 'disprove God.' I told her that I try to live my life in accords with the Bible and believe in God. However, at what point did the Watchtower get to be exalted to God? "The Watchtower follows the Bible as closely as they can and the Bible is inspired by God," she says, "Therefore if you disagree with the Watchtower, you disagree with God." "Is that so?", I asked, "Then how come the Watchtower changes its teachings so often. As we saw at the booth at the State Fair, God cannot change, so how come the Watchtower changes?" "It is all new light and them refining their teachings," she replied. I followed up with, "If the Watchtower teaches that one can get blood transfusion, then teach that blood transfusions are not allowed, then later says allows for blood fractions, it is all new light? How can new light contradict old light? If the Watchtower teaches that immunizations are not allowed, then teach that they are, how can this be? How can the Watchtower teach that organ transplants are not allowed (cannibalism) then later allow them? These are opposing teachings and they can't both be true, so either the Watchtower is teaching false teachings now or was teaching false teachings then, which one is it? If the Watchtower is God's sole channel on the Earth, how can their teachings change so much if God cannot change?"

  Silence...

  So tell me something, by equating disagreements with the Watchtower to being disagreements with God, does this not sound like some form of idolatry?

  She disagrees but of course at this point she thinks I am 'once again' misguided and trying to disprove the Bible and reject God.