garyneal
JoinedPosts by garyneal
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86
Merry Pantsmas Everyone!
by Billy the Ex-Bethelite inokay, i posted this in a thread that got locked and buried.
since then i've been really busy and have overdosed on christmas music in the past week.
so, i'm resurrecting this "holy day" holiday that most people will unknowingly be celebrating tomorrow.
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86
Merry Pantsmas Everyone!
by Billy the Ex-Bethelite inokay, i posted this in a thread that got locked and buried.
since then i've been really busy and have overdosed on christmas music in the past week.
so, i'm resurrecting this "holy day" holiday that most people will unknowingly be celebrating tomorrow.
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garyneal
Merry Pantsless
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Scientific explanation of how spirit creatures could materialize
by EndofMysteries inin my science class book i was just reading about particles and antiparticles.. i'll just quote a few parts, "every type of particle in nature must also have an alter ego, an antiparticle........one fascinating property of particle-antiparticles pairs is that if you bring such a pair together, the two particles will annihilate each other......when the pair annihilates, the mass of the two particles is converted into energy which is carried away by a pair of photons.....the reverse is also possible, two photons may collide to produce a particle and it's antiparticle-by a process called pair production.. so assuming spirit creatures are made of energy, there is a scientific explanation of how energy can become physical mass, and physical mass to energy.
whether you believe they exist or not, i thought that was an interesting read and a way to explain how they could materialize and de-materialize.. .
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garyneal
Oh wow, you should preach like Bro Russell.
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PLEASE don't read this . . . if you have O.C.D. tendencies or are superstitious
by Terry inwhat if there were no such things as arabic numerals (0123456789)?.
what if you only had your alphabet?.
you could use letters as numerical values.
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garyneal
Caesar Nero's value was 666. Ring a bell?
No, NO, it is Ronald Wilson Reagan. According to my childhood friend who preached a lot, he preached it like this...
You have Ronald-ha, Wilson Reagan-ha.
You have R-O-N-A-L-D, you have 6-ha.
You have W-I-L-S-O-N, you have 6-ha.
You have R-E-A-G-A-N, you have 6-ha.
I want to let you knoooow!!!
Of course, the beast is now dead. Unless you count that super computer in Belgium. That was what my old IFB pastor said.
Of course, 666 could also mean "to prick" as in implant a microchip under the skin of your right hand or forehead. According to Jack Van Impe.
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do religious believers have too many privileges
by WildeLover ini am sure that jws will use this as an impending sign that the beast will turn on babylon and ban all religions.
it will feed thier persecution complex quite a lot!.
http://www.voice-online.co.uk/article/do-religious-believers-have-too-many-privileges.
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garyneal
If the wild beast is the UN then the WTS rode it for approximately 9 years. Were (are) they part of the harlot?
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CAN WE BE BETTER THAN THE GOD WE SERVE?
by Terry inbe careful what you say god is and what he wants; you may be saying more about yourself than you realize.. it may well be our personal taste in religion is revelatory of our basic character.. _____.
look at the devout islamist whose worship consists of blowing people up or cutting off heads.. contrast that to those hindi who sit with legs folded in their own lap contemplating bliss.. now contrast both the above to somebody who believes service to god is visiting the sick in hospitals.. _____.
instead of there being 3 different gods served--there might only be an extraordinary unveiling of each person's heart and mind!.
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garyneal
Well when you look at the personality of the OT Jehovah, he displays all the traits of a spoiled adolesent male, with a huge egocentricity problem causing all sorts of narcisstic behaivior.
The documentation hypothesis of the Old Testament makes a lot of sense when you look at the Bible from the 4 (or 5) anonymous authors who did it for various agendas.
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CAN WE BE BETTER THAN THE GOD WE SERVE?
by Terry inbe careful what you say god is and what he wants; you may be saying more about yourself than you realize.. it may well be our personal taste in religion is revelatory of our basic character.. _____.
look at the devout islamist whose worship consists of blowing people up or cutting off heads.. contrast that to those hindi who sit with legs folded in their own lap contemplating bliss.. now contrast both the above to somebody who believes service to god is visiting the sick in hospitals.. _____.
instead of there being 3 different gods served--there might only be an extraordinary unveiling of each person's heart and mind!.
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garyneal
An exerpt from my conversation with my oldest daughter.
... On our way there, we talked about Halloween and the holidays and why mommy does not celebrate. "She chooses not to celebrate because she believes that by not celebrating she is pleasing God," I said. Of course I do celebrate and so I told her that I did not feel the same way.
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I asked her if she remembered the invitation she got from her Mormon friend to attend her baptism. She did so I told her that Mormons feel that they please God by not drinking coffee or sodas because of the caffeine nor do they smoke. They feel that by abstaining from these things, they keep their bodies clean and please God. "So you mean no more Dr Pepper's?" she asked. "If you and mom were Mormons I could not drink Dr Pepper?" "That's right," I said, "if mom and I were to try to raise you up as a Mormon, no soft drinks for us and no coffee for mom."
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On our way out the store, we passed by this muslim couple and my child, being 8 and naturally inquisitive began asking, "Why is that lady wearing a mask and only her eyes can be seen?" To which I replied, "Well, remember what we talked about concerning rules and pleasing God? People of the Islam or Muslim religion believe that women should remain covered from head to toe so as to show respect to their husbands or fathers and in so doing, please God." "Mom does not do that," she said. "I know, same God different rules," I replied.
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She questioned about how different people's religions have different rules when they are all trying to serve the same God to which I responded, "Yeah, it does all seem a little man made, doesn't it."
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Interview with an Unbelieving Mate (UBM): Frazzled
by Frazzled UBM inin honour of jgnat i have completed her template:.
is your wife still an active witness?
no thankfuly - she has only been to the memorail, a convention and the kh once this year and has done none of that for at least 6 months.
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garyneal
Interesting read, Fraz. So far it appears that we are the only UBMs to do the interviews.
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garyneal
blondie: Thanks, I read portions of it to my wife and she laughed at the part that said, "...as I currently love my wife and adore our kids." She said, "I am glad that you currently love me." I said, "Ooops, that was not what I meant by that." She was a sport about it.
arwen: Agreed
MissFit: Thank you for your kind words. May I ask what woke you up?
Simon: Thanks for the response. In regards to your question I did encounter a few circumstances where they seemed like they were trying to convince me to accept the TRUTH. Once, when it became apparent that she and I had something going on between us back when we first met to her parents her father met me at the Walmart where she and I worked and went on to tell me about how he expected me to attend meetings at the Kingdom Hall. Later on when we began seeing each other, her father handed me a brochure entitled, "What does God require of us," and told me that he wanted his daughter to be involved with a Christian. I thought it was cute and I figured that I was a Christian man so I did not see the problem. He insisted on a study and I play the 'obedient' student by answering the Jesus was the Son of God while not letting on that I was a trinitarian since I had known the witnesses take on it.
I also recall that her hall had an annointed brother who insisted on meeting me to discuss the Bible. I did learn that the KJV used LORD in a different font to illustrate the devine name from him but not much else. He later went back to my then girlfriend's mom to say that I was not interested in the TRUTH but only in her. I just did not understand at the time since I considered myself Christian and saw no big deal in it.
Later after my girlfriend and I left out home town and moved in together, her mother sent a letter to me saying that she regretted her daughter rejecting Jehovah for me. I remember thinking, "How was I competing with a deity?" Especially considering that she and I both worshipped Him and we even married shortly after moving in together because neither of us felt right due to our religious beliefs. As I pointed out earlier, I never understood why they could not accept other Christians until I began learning TTATT.
Apognophos: I suppose deist is pretty close. I no longer consider the Bible to be the inerrant word of God and see no proof of His existence. Funny thing is, even back when I was an IFB I recall my pastor saying that nature and man was proof of God's existence. I later, still as a Bible believer, revised it to say that it only proves A GOD, not the one true God I believed in. My views began leaning agnostic even back when I met my wife when I examined the religions based purely on empirical evidence and logic but still retained a faith in the biblical god. I tell you, I could easily convince myself that Christianity was the correct religion even though I had to push aside the dissonance from the fact that there are many non christians that were going to hell based on its teachings. Back around 2010, I decided that I was not going to just accept any answer anymore and that the reasoning had to be sound to prove my beliefs correct. Well, no such reasoning could be found so I guess I have to render a verdict of "not guilty" to the existense of God. I guess that makes me a weak atheist.
talesin: Thanks, I think my wife and I are doing okay for the moment. Most of our problems actually surround money more than religion. I guess quite typical but that is subsiding as we are both making decent money. Good thing she did not take the WT too seriously when came to her getting her education. I also like your answer to Simon concerning JW girls, my wife also told me that she did not get too much attention from the witness guys and wound up dating outside the religion. I could relate as I too had a difficult time finding girls in the church because as I said earlier, they were after bad boys.
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garyneal
Tell us a little about yourself and your family.
I am (currently) 43 years old and married for 11 years to my JW spouse with two daughters between us. I also have a son from a previous relationship who does not live with us.
Are you the wife or husband?
I am the husband.
How did you come to have a spouse who is a JW? Were they a JW when you met, did they convert / return to it or did you leave?
My wife is a born in whose mother and father are both witnesses along with all of her aunts on her mom’s side. None of her uncles on her mom’s side are witnesses. This includes her mother’s only brother as well as her uncles related by marriage to her believing aunts. We know very little of her father’s side since they rarely ever got to see anyone from that side of the family but we do know that none of them are witnesses.
Her mother converted to the religion through one of her aunts and her father converted in order to date and later marry her mom. Her aunts converted later after her mom converted. Her grandmother on her mom’s side was never a witness and I believe that the only reason why all her aunts are is because her mom is the strongest sibling, besides her uncle, in the family.
Are you religious? Do you have a recognized faith?
Less so than I used to be but yes I would consider myself religious. Oddly enough, my mom and step-dad never took us to church growing up and I recall going only a few times with my dad and step-mom as they were not particularly religious either. Of all my siblings, I alone was most affected by religion having been introduced to it by my religious uncle on my dad’s side and a religious friend in my childhood. My own childhood experiences made me want to seek out and be associated with good people of a higher caliber than what I was accustomed to in my family and I thought that Christians were amongst the highest caliber of people throughout most of my young life.
As for the recognized faith, it is Christianity in case you have not figured it out yet. As I previously stated, I did attend a few church services with my dad and step-mom and remember going to vacation bible school during one of my summer vacations that I spent with them. During a regular Sunday service, there was an invitation given by the pastor to accept Jesus and become baptized. I went up and was first baptized at the age of 12 in a Southern Baptist church. The rest of my childhood was pretty uneventful as far as my faith is concerned but I had always wanted to be a part of a church. I later began attending another Southern Baptist church briefly in my home town at about the age of 20 until I met my step-dad’s brother and was invited by him to attend a youth conference event from his church. He and his family attended an Independent Fundamental Baptist (IFB) church and we went to Roanoke to watch a hockey game with a youth group. After the game, someone affiliated with the church gave the invitation to be saved and likened it to us being trapped in a burning building and Jesus waiting to catch us if only we would jump. In my mind, I “jumped” and stepped out to be saved as I felt I had lost my salvation from back when I was 12 at the Southern Baptist church I mentioned earlier. Of course, I later learned that Baptists (including IFBs) do not believe that you can lose your salvation as they believe once saved always saved. Never-the-less, I took my dedication more seriously this time and I began attending his IFB church regularly with his family and took a lot of what was being preached from the pulpit very seriously. I wanted to truly follow God and I clung to the teachings of the pastor and went to my IFB uncle for advice on religious matters. They were indeed kind people and I very much enjoyed the Sundays I spent at their house between the Sunday morning and Sunday evening services.
At Christmas time, the IFB church had placed on their church sign that it was CHRISTmas, not Xmas. This was based on the theme of the church to put Christ back into Christmas. I remember my Jehovah’s Witness friend telling me that Jesus was not born on December 25 th and I remember asking my IFB uncle and his wife about it. They did confirm that it was not known what day Jesus was born but the whole point of celebrating the holiday by giving gifts is because Jesus gave us so much by dying for us on the cross. That satisfied me at the time so I gave it no more thought. They had an awesome Christmas Eve service and my uncle gave me my own Bible for Christmas, a KJV study Bible. Being IFBs, they believe that only the KJV Bible is the most accurate translation of the Holy Scriptures as this translation was the only translation to be perceived as the Word of God. I think many IFBs of today will ‘accept’ other translations but ‘prefer’ the KJV but by accept I mean in a similar vein that witnesses ‘accept’ other translations but prefer their NWT translation. Back when I was attending this particular IFB church it was apparent that other translations were look upon at best with suspicion and at worst with contempt. Only the KJV was the inerrant Word of God and some IFBs considered promoting other translations as promoting Satan.
My uncle was also aware of my issues with the hypocrisy that I would see within the church as he wrote a note in my KJV study Bible that basically told me that even though people will let me down God will never let me down. They were indeed a very nice family and I really tried to get into the whole walk with God thing at this church but the distance from the church and my home did not permit me to do more than attend every Sunday morning, Sunday night, and Wednesday night service. That was still quite a bit considering that the drive was 30 to 45 minutes from my house and yes I tithed as much as I could in spite of my working restaurant jobs for minimum wage but I did not give the ten percent as expected. My secular upbringing did shield me some from the over the top stuff I would come across in the church and plus I made some close friends in that church that did not take everything too seriously but I did try to follow the church’s teachings as close as possible in order to please God.
After about a year or so, I decided that I needed to find another church closer to home and because I was convinced by this church that an IFB church is the only safe church I asked the pastor and my uncle to recommend a church. I began attending the church they recommended and began taking my walk with Christ even more seriously. With the church being closer to home, I attended services whenever the doors were opened. Sunday morning, Sunday night, Wednesday night and I regularly went out soul winning going door to door spreading the gospel to win souls for Christ. The IFB denomination stressed soul winning as the most important reason for being a Christian and my pastor in particular was adamant about it. I would always enjoy going out soul winning with the pastor as I felt that he and I had a great relationship. I remember we had a conversation about dating and he and I agreed that dating was only for meeting your future wife. Yes, I believed this and finding a Christian wife and raising a Christian family was one of my biggest desires. I remember having a crush on his daughter but I did not feel right trying to approach her since I was so close to the pastor and did not want to do anything that may harm our friendship.
I also recall the pastor frequently calling out other churches as false and warning us that the devil was using any means necessary to turn us away from God. He criticized the Teletubbies, the Smurfs, and the Captain Planet cartoon as being tools Satan used to get to our minds and lead us astray. The pastor at the previous IFB church where my uncle attended would criticize rock and rap music and would even throw in Christian rock and rap and would criticize secular college and would recommend Christian college. He also would advise parents that they should pray for their daughters to go to Bible colleges and become preachers’ wives. I even recall that pastor calling out secular counselors as not being as good as Christian ones. Of course, he also preached against homosexuality while there were incidents of child molestation going on with members of the church. One such incident involved my cousin on my mom’s side that led to my aunt leaving her husband and taking the kids. He became a born again Christian shortly after that and began attending that same church at about the same time I did. Some of the people at the church would tell me that I should tell my aunt to return to her husband as God did not like divorce. My response was, “You do not understand, he abused his wife and molested his oldest daughter.” He ultimately called some of the members of the church as character witnesses in court and was found not guilty of the charges. Not too long afterwards, he stopped attending church.
The pastor at my new church began becoming too over the top when he started preaching that the BEAST revealed in Revelations was a super computer in Belgium. One thing that pastor would often do is attempt to explain Bible prophesy and tell us what he thinks the symbolism refers to in our modern age. The mark of the beast is a barcode, the beast is a supercomputer in Belgium, and our society will become a cashless one. Real Left Behind type of stuff was being preached regarding Bible prophecy that rings of stuff you’d see on Jack Van Impe Presents. Incidentally, I began watching Jack Van Impe very regularly during that period. The ultimate embarrassment for me was when he circulated copies of a letter stating that the people who ran Proctor and Gamble were Satanists and that we needed to stop buying their products. We were encouraged by the pastor to spread the word and I did so by posting it on a Fidonet group through a local BBS. The feedback was educational with most of it negative and the moderators pointing out that it was an urban legend with one of them threatening to submit a copy of it to P&G for evidence in a defamation lawsuit against me. I apologized profusely to everyone who read and responded to it as I realized that I had been duped and feared being sued for propagating a lie.
Eventually, the pastor’s constant barrage of rules began to wear me down and I became depressed almost to the point of suicidal. It seemed that I would never measure up to God’s requirements no matter how hard I tried and my mom even recommended that I leave the church. That, of course, set off warning bells in my head as we were taught that messages like that came from Satan and I felt that she just did not understand the true requirements for a Christian since I was the only church going member of my family and wanted to win their souls for Christ also. I left that church and went to yet another IFB church that was just as rigid as the other two and I found myself teetering between the two churches. I never considered going back to the Southern Baptist church except out of rebellion as I believed that only the IFB churches had the right beliefs. I eventually grew tired of it all and began drawing away from church altogether.
The tragedy is that all I ever wanted most was to meet a Christian girl in the church, marry her, and raise children in a Christian family. The frustration was that no matter how hard I tried to be a good Christian God would not grant me so much as even a girlfriend within the church. I tried to say to myself that it was about serving God and I truly believed that I was doing that. However, I could never understand why Christian guys in the church who were not as ‘on fire’ as I was and was even doing things like drinking, doing drugs, and even getting in trouble with the law finding all the nice pretty girls in the church who really loved them. I guess nice guys always finished last and my IFB uncle’s wife told me one time that “he who was last shall be first in the kingdom of God,” in response to that statement. I guess it provided me some comfort.
I was still attending the IFB churches irregularly when I started attending college. I had hit the lowest point in my life when after I was dumped by a girl I liked, I took a whole bottle of Inderal and was taken to the hospital to have my stomach pumped when I came to my senses and told my mom about it. The counselor that I was ordered to see recognized that if I were attending college and if I had had a girlfriend then I would’ve felt like I was living on top of world. I decided to start attending college in the fall of 1993 and had met my first girlfriend shortly after. I began to realize that I had everything I wanted without church and without God. Therefore, I had no more use for Him or the church and eventually stopped attending altogether shortly after landing my first real job two years later.
That all changed at around 1997 when I was 26 years old. My career turned out to be less than expected, my undergrad studies were taking much longer than expected as most of my Associate’s Degree classes did not transfer to my Bachelor’s Degree program forcing me to pretty much start all over, and my girlfriend and I broke up after four years of being in a serious relationship. I was at another low point and during this time I saw a flyer on one of the bulletin boards in college that said that going to college should be more than just going to classes. It was a flyer for the Christian Student Fellowship program and I started attending their meetings. At first, I was shy about meeting people but after I began getting to know the students and especially after our first Christian retreat I was hooked. My faith and my relationship with God were renewed and I had established some close friendships there with people who I still remain friends with today. I was having the time of my life and for the first time ever I felt really close to God. I had also shaken some of my IFB beliefs in them being the only real Christians and began accepting other interpretations of the Bible as well as other translations of the Bible as valid. I did, however, retain some of their beliefs such as the need to witness to others but I felt that I should let my life be a witness rather than go door to door soul winning. In essence, I was becoming more like a Southern Baptist which was the organization behind CSF whose sister organization was BSU (Baptist Student Union).
After finishing college, I later met my Jehovah’s Witness wife and that caused me to later go down a different path that ultimately led me away from Christianity.
Did you know anything about the JW religion before you got together?
A little, I had a close friend who was a JW who I have known since I was 20 years old. Also, there was this one girl I dated who I later learned whose mom was also a witness but she never really let it be known that she was a witness. I also learned some more about the religion from the pastor at the IFB who I went soul winning with though I found out later that I could not put much trust in a lot of the things he said since he also denounced practically every other religion outside the IFBs but he probably wasn’t too far off concerning the witnesses.
Do you see your partners faith as a positive attribute or a negative and if so why?
At first very positive as I had always wanted a wife who believed in God and enjoyed going to church. That was one of the things that frustrated me so much when I attended church in my early twenties as it seemed like the guys who weren’t really “on fire for the Lord” and who even did things like drink, smoke, curse, etc. were getting all the nice girls in church. I guess it was like they say, nice guys always finish last and even God could not fix that. As for my wife, she was the woman who I said that I wish I had met when I was 18. In a way, I felt that the Lord had finally provided. Of course, I knew little about the witnesses at the time so I had no idea what I was getting myself into. The truth is, I knew of some of their ‘weird’ doctrines but figured to each his/her own and that we were still all brothers and sisters in Christ regardless.
That was the attitude we had in our campus student ministries in college as some of us would even want to invite Jehovah’s Witnesses in the fold. This attitude in college was a refreshing change from the attitudes I had encountered at the IFB churches and I readily embraced it and continued to maintain this attitude even during the days of my “Bible study” with the witnesses. Of course, this attitude was not shared by either my wife or the other witnesses I met as they would often criticize and berate other churches to almost the same fervor as I remembered back in my old IFB days. That raised a red flag in my mind and I decided that as nice as they were, I could not identify as a witness since my prior experience with the IFBs taught me how to see through their fallacious reasoning over they alone possessing the truth. Plus, my experience with the Christian students on campus showed me that there was room in the Christian faith for different interpretations of scripture that allowed all of us to be brothers and sisters in Christ.
I studied the “Bible” with the witnesses for six years to learn more about their teachings. While I was intrigued with some of their teachings I did not accept their claim to being the only true church as I still retained my beliefs that we could all be brothers and sisters in Christ. It later became apparent that they would never feel this way and my wife, though she did attend church with me, would never accept anything they preached either. When she decided to reject my faith for her own by deciding that she was going to quit celebrating the holidays and progress to becoming baptized, I had a crisis of faith and really began to wonder for the first time whether or not my beliefs were correct. I decided to begin to really study and read the Bible and test my beliefs as well as the witnesses to see which one was correct. That was back in May of 2009 and I expected it to be a long process but by June of 2009 I knew something was up with the witness’s religion and I had started attending another church as I began to believe that my beliefs were correct all along. By August of 2009, I had began posting here as a full on Bible believing Christian.
Do you discuss religion together or is it 'an elephant in the room'?
Quite a bit as we did comparative religious discussions but almost always it wound up being something along the lines of “We’re right, there is no possible way yours or others beliefs can be valid too,” type of attitude that I would get from the witnesses (my wife included). That and their demonizing practically every secular and religious activity (outside of the kingdom hall of course) was all too eerily reminiscent of my experiences at the IFB churches that I found it suffocating. As did my wife as she often (and still continues to) partake in activities condemned by the Watchtower Society such as joining the YMCA and enrolling our kids in sports and other activities. I guess so much for following the “truth.”
It became a different scenario when I later discovered the TTATT and began pointing out a lot of the Watchtower’s errors both scripturally and demonstrably. Queue the special pleading as now the vaunted Watchtower and the sacred Kingdom Halls were made of fallible men who are sincerely trying to follow God any way they can. Never mind the fact that the same could be said for Christians in other churches and I should know given how much time I spent in and around them by then. When backed into a corner, my wife ultimately comes back with, “Well where else can we go? Do you have someplace better?” Yeesh! When she gets into cult indoctrinated robot mode, it is best to leave it be.
How familiar are you with the JW doctrines or is it just 'your partners thing'?
Very familiar as I studied with them for six years and even began to think that they were indeed the one true religion. I had a crisis of faith back in 2009 and began doing a great deal of research on their beliefs and mine and compared it to the Bible. I thought it would take me years to learn the truth and in a way it did (as it is still ongoing) but I discovered very quickly , thanks to the Internet, that their religion is NOT the truth. The things that the society is hiding from their members are astounding and the level of ignorance to the history of the Watchtower by many witnesses, many of whom have been in ‘the truth’ for decades, is equally astounding.
Much more astounding still was the level of ignorance of Christianity by most Christians including myself back when I first began posting here. I was challenged on my beliefs of the Bible being the Truth (with a capital T) and saw many postings about the atrocious things that were found within its pages. I decided to read the Bible all the way through and managed to do so in 2012. A straight reading of the Bible without imposing your theology on the scriptures is very revealing. Most Christians do not read the Bible and those that do often do so through the lens of their personal theology and the same thing applies to the witnesses. When I watch some of the videos posted here concerning how scholars viewed the Bible and the early Christians and after seeing Randy Watters refer to the Bible as a collection of stories, myths, and facts I figured that my lack of knowledge of the Bible and Christianity far exceeded my knowledge. I began to dig more into accuracy and historicity of the Bible and the early church and as I did, the scales began to fall.
What is your view of the JWs as a close-but-still-outsider looking in?
For a while, I felt like an outsider trying to fit in as they would never accept me as a brother in Christ even though I believed in God and Jesus and the Bible. That bothered me a lot but their suffocating rules and strange doctrines discouraged me from even considering becoming one of them. I realized that I would always be an outsider and that I would never be considered a brother in Christ by even my wife. Considering that many of their doctrines and some of their practices actually made sense, I wondered why Christians of other churches had not considered them. I was even considering becoming a witness as I began having a crisis of faith and really wanted to be sure that I was doing right by God. Therefore I vowed to read the Bible and diligently look for the truth and compare it to their beliefs to see if it stood up. If it did, I would’ve suited up and become a witness. Obviously it did not so I could not in good conscious become one.
Now, I look at witnesses and Christians as both being cut from that same cloth. It is amazing how much in common they have in terms of their anger when their beliefs are challenged with facts. They really should join forces as they look downright silly criticizing scientists and biblical scholars who do not view the Bible as inerrant while simultaneously criticizing each other. I am happy now to consider myself an outsider as I am not burdened by their rules. I used to criticize my parents for not taking me to church when I was younger in order for me to have had a much stronger Christian background. When I look at born-ins both here on this site, as well as my wife, and those raised in other churches and see how really screwed up some of their lives are and how screwed up I was when I was an IFB, I now thank my parents for having the foresight to avoid church. My step-dad actually did attend a church with his parents until he got married to my mom. He was kicked out because his marriage to a divorcee made him an adulterer. His dad stood by him by telling the church to piss off by saying, “If he can’t stay, neither can I.” Good man.
How 'active' a JW is your partner? How much time do they spend on the WTS?
My wife goes to the Sunday and Wednesday meetings and occasionally goes out in field service.
Do you feel any pressure to convert or to attend meetings? Do you ever attend with them?
I don’t recall ever feeling “pressured” to attend meetings or convert as I used to go fairly often and was willing to listen to their teachings. I still attend on occasion but very rarely now.
Have you ever considered becoming a JW? What puts you off or convinces you not to?
Yes, until I began to research their beliefs on the Internet. Freeminds, Jwfacts, and 4jehovah.org convinced me to change my mind.
Do you ever try to pressure your spouse to stop attending meetings or to attend your church?
Sadly, yes when I learned TTATT I thought I was doing my wife a favor by revealing the TRUTH about her religion to her and of course, she did not listen. As far as attending my church, yes, I tried to coax her into it too. Being challenged on my own beliefs by the people of this board helped me to see that Christianity was no better than the witnesses in a lot of ways. I read the Bible from cover to cover and boy did that open my eyes. Watching atheist youtube channels revealed a lot of things about the religion that I never knew existed. I basically jumped from the frying pan of “I wonder how we got here” to the fire of “Oh that’s how it all really works.”
Do you feel that your partners JW associations are friends with you as a couple or mostly just your spouse? Do you have the same group of friends?
Just my spouse as they really don’t do a lot of things together though I suppose that may have a lot to do with my wife being married to me.
How do you explain your partners faith and practices to outsiders? Do you bother?
If someone wants to know, I tell them. If it comes up in conversation, I tell them. Otherwise, I do not bother bringing it up. It is not because I am ashamed or anything as I will gladly tell anyone about it. Most people either do not know anything at all about the witnesses or they are somewhat fundamentalists themselves and/or have their own (and often wrong) opinions about them.
What strains has it put on your relationship? Do you feel the WTS imposes itself into your relationship with your spouse?
Our religious differences caused a lot of strain in the beginning when I was a true Bible believing Christian that had discovered TTATT but not so much now. The only thing that I am currently concerned about is their murderous blood doctrine.
How does the differing view of the future affect your goals and plans for retirement together?
Difficult to say, we seldom talk about future goals except that I urge her to save for retirement and I continue to do so.
Does your spouse contribute monetarily to the WTS? Do you resent the expenditure?
I don’t notice it if she does so I don’t really know.
Are either of your immediate families also JWs?
Her mom, dad, and all her aunts on her mom’s side of the family are of the few closest relatives of hers that are witnesses. Also on her mom’s side one of her cousins is a baptized publisher; her sister doesn’t attend the meetings and leads a ‘worldly’ life style but still believes in the religion. Another one of her cousins adopted Islam and yet another left the religion and became an IFB. There are no witnesses in my immediate family but my mom does have cousins who are witnesses.
Do you have children? How involved are they with the religion?
We have two girls between us, with the oldest being more into God and religion than the youngest which is perhaps due to my being more religious in her early years. My wife and I do not force the children to attend religious services though if given the choice they prefer church to the hall. My wife feels guilty every once in a while, especially when the witnesses have their revivals, I mean, assemblies and annual meetings (like the one they had recently). My son, incidentally, is a deist as is his family.
Do you object to your children being taught the religion or spending so much time in it?
Yes and no, as long as I can teach them critical thinking skills and what others believe. I find that my doing so offends my wife and she will feel the need to “buckle down” on the studying to try to inoculate them from becoming atheists. I told her that I had no desire to make them an atheist and that if she really wants to ensure that they maintain a faith then it can only be done by love. She must win them, win us, by love not by trying to prove others wrong because most people don’t care about doctrine.
Do you feel your children are negatively affected at all by their parents religious differences?
Perhaps but it is my sincere hope that they will benefit from an expanded world view. My oldest daughter also has a close Jewish and Mormon friend. There is plenty of opportunity to teach comparative religious beliefs to her.
Would you support or object to restrictions on any medical treatment for your spouse or children based on the religion?
I mainly oppose their blood doctrine when life is hanging in the balance but beyond that, no.
Are you aware that your partner and children believe you will be killed at armageddon? How does it make you feel?
Don’t think too much about it at the moment. I cared more when I was trying to be accepted by them for who I am. I guess if I am dying at Armageddon then so is approximately 99.9% of the whole world’s population. I can’t imagine how a witness can handle that as even I had dissonance in my mind when I had to deal with the idea that good individuals who practiced other religions are bound for hell according to Christian beliefs.
Do you feel you or your spouse are ever included or excluded from family events just because of your status?
Perhaps, her mom is a religious person but her aunts are not so religious. Fortunately, we live hundreds of miles away from them all so their influence and behavior have a marginal effect on our family.
Are you or your families activities negatively affected because of your partners religion? (e.g. xmas, birthdays)
I’ve got to hand it to my wife for right now she allows the kids and I to participate in xmas and birthday celebrations and even participates somewhat. It does bother her from time to time due to her trying to play to both sides in her mind but as long as she is not willing to look at facts concerning her beliefs she will continued to be shackled by them.
Do you want your spouse to leave the religion? (Or have they already left)
Not sure. As long as she is not too gung ho in her beliefs we can get along. Not sure if her leaving the religion would change much.
What did / would you most look forward to doing when / if your partner left the religion?
Don’t know. She does not care to look too deeply in religion the way that I do. I guess it would be nice for her to be able to appreciate celebrating the holidays without too much regret or shame.
How do you feel about religion in general?
As of now, I see some good things in religion but I feel that it serves more to divide people than it does to unite them. Still, though, religions serve people by enabling camaraderie amongst the people and by giving those people ways to serve the community and help the poor. I do not see any secular or humanist groups that are like this.
How has your life been impacted by your partners involvement with the WTS?
Well, I am married to a witness who has irrational fears of being destroyed by God for not holding fast to their rigid rules.
Are there things in your life you blame the WTS for?
Perhaps for a wife who has irrational fears of dying and who is afraid to examine the WTS critically. Can I hardly get mad at that when all religions (or at least Christianity and Islam) instill similar irrational fears and unwillingness to critically examine them?
Have you attended any face-to-face meetups of ex-JWs?
No
What do you think of the ex-JW community? Why did you seek it out? Are there things you think they should do differently?
At first I sought them out for support of my situation. I do not know what to think of the ex JW community except that they are not that much different than any other ex religious community. There is even an ex IFB community that I was once a part of. I cannot think of what the community should do differently.
What are your plans for the future?
Get a master’s degree, watch my kids grow up, maybe teach at a public college, and grow old with my wife.
What advice would you give to anyone who is in a relationship with a JW?
Think seriously about what you want out of life and out of your relationship. Do you want to get married and attend the same church? Are you willing to become a witness to do that? If not, is your partner willing to leave the JW faith? Do you want marriage and kids with this person? If so, how are you going to handle xmas, birthdays, and whether or not your kids cannot participate in certain activities in schools due to your partner’s faith? If you are a woman, are you aware that their beliefs place the men in charge of the spiritual upbringing of the household? How do you feel about their position on blood and how will you two handle situations where a blood transfusion may be necessary? Think long and hard about these things and discuss them with your partner before marrying that person. If you do not feel good about the answers you receive then it is best to cut your losses and let the person go. Life is too short to play the game of ‘maybe I can get him or her to see things my way and do things more my way.’
What would you change in your life if you could go back and talk to yourself?
Not sure if I want to as I currently love my wife and adore our kids. Besides, who’s to say that my life would turn out much better if I had met and married someone different? If I had of met and married a Christian girl within the church back in my early years, who’s to say we’d still be married today? Especially given that more marriages amongst the evangelical Christians end in divorce than in other faiths. I think my wife also recognizes that witnesses marrying within the faith are not guaranteed lifelong marital bliss as she has noticed several people within her old congregation who she thought would never get divorced wound up divorced.
Do you have any regrets about your life with your partner due to their faith?
I did for a while but managed to work past it. I think my examining my own faith as critically as I did the witness faith made me realize that in many ways we really are the same.
Can we read your life-story anywhere? (links to online or books)
I wrote a blog about why I am not a witness here . I need to add more to my blog or consider making YouTube videos about my own personal journey. I try to respect my wife by not saying too much about her faith publicly so I am kind of reluctant to do so.
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