yknot:
Yeah, my research never uncovered whether or not Russell was actually a freemason but like you said he clearly used masonic stuff. His pyramid memorial is the most visible example of this.
garyneal
JoinedPosts by garyneal
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My First Kingdom Hall Wedding
by garyneal induring our last "bible study" session with the elder and his wife, we were invited to attend a wedding of a dear and close 'brother' and 'sister' of thiers at their hall.
my wife made me where a suit .
the wedding overall was nice.
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Dearest pjschipper...
by AGuest inmay you have peace!
because you have not made any responsive comment in issues where i have adressed you, i am thinking that perhaps we should take this particular issue to its own thread, if you will accommodate me.
in the thread entitled, "are we following men?
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garyneal
Homer, I agree to a certain extent, the brother's should not be making decisions for other's to make and then enforcing them with the threat of being DF'd. It is up to every christian to decide for themselves with their scriptural view and their conscience of their own descision how it would affect their relationship with God Well said and precisely the point I tried to make with my wife earlier today. A Jehovah's Witness should be allowed to make a decision based on his or her concious concerning medical matters. There are some Christians who would agree with the Watchtower concerning blood transfusions but I don't think this represents the majority. Let each person decide for himself or herself what they should do. Even though the Watchtower does not ban vaccines any longer many individuals (such as the elder and his wife we are studying with, along with some Christian zealots) disapprove of the Gardisil vaccine (for one reason or another). Let each person make the call is all I can say. The Watchtower (or any other religious leader) should not be overly pushy in this regard. I just hope and pray for their sakes (and especially their children's sake) that they make good choices.
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My First Kingdom Hall Wedding
by garyneal induring our last "bible study" session with the elder and his wife, we were invited to attend a wedding of a dear and close 'brother' and 'sister' of thiers at their hall.
my wife made me where a suit .
the wedding overall was nice.
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garyneal
During our last "Bible Study" session with the elder and his wife, we were invited to attend a wedding of a dear and close 'brother' and 'sister' of thiers at their hall. My wife made me where a suit to that wedding and of course I had lots of questions. For most Jehovah's Witnesses (current or former) this is all old hat but it was a new experience for me as I have only been to church weddings and justice of the peace weddings (which by the way was the type of wedding she and I had).
The wedding overall was nice. People marched down the ailse two bytwo, finally the groom march down the ailse with his best man, followed by the bride with her father. I did note that they did not play "Here comes the bride" as she walked down the ailse but no biggie. The bride, groom, best man, and maid (matron) of honor all sat down in front of someone (elder or ministerial servant perhaps) who gave a talk. I found it peculiar that they all sat down but about half way during the talk, I began to understand why (boy that was long). Finally, the ordained minister came up, asked them to stand and recited the wedding vows for them to answer and repeat. The marraige vows were a little different but not much (they mostly inserted Jehovah where they could and reworded the questions a little bit).
Afterwards, we talked about the wedding and my impressions of it. I just said that the wedding did not seem too unusual, different, but not unusual to the point of being strange. I doubt very seriously people who are as conservative as the witnesses would every agree to bongo drums playing and people dancing with masks on or anything (that would be unusual for me).
We did however, discuss other things. She somehow has it in her head that I am learning so much about the witnesses because I want to become one (albeit secretly). After trying to contain my laughter, I told her that as a Christian I would become a witness right after I become a freemason. (We passed by a masonic lodge on the way to the wedding and I told her about the freemasons, apparently she never heard of them before.) Just in case you're wondering, yes I did tell her that Charles Russell was a freemason.
Then I relented and said that I may become a witness if the following occurred:
Drop the teaching of 1914 (bonus if they admitted that it was an erroroneous teaching).
Drop the extreme shunning policies of the Watchtower concerning disfellowshipped members.
Drop the murderous blood doctrine.There's more but that was enough for her and I to have another discussion concerning their practices. We spent about ten minutes on 1914 and how she insists that the society is right on this teaching.
Then she told me that the extreme shunning practices are not supported by the Watchtower. She even gave me some examples of people she knew. One of them was a woman disfellowshipped for sexual immorality. When she became pregnant, her JW mom took her in her home so she could help take care of the unborn child. All with the support of her congregation. I was surprised to hear this when it seems so much I hear about how they should treat disfellowshipped ones would talk about how people just shun. Is this a normal experience for most witnesses or is this an exception to the rule?
The last one concerning blood was talked about but her final response was for her to give me a Watchtower brochure concerning blood and asked me to read it. I told her I would because it seems like she does not know all of the doctrine concerning blood herself.
In fact, she tells me that I seem to know more about their doctrines than she does. Personally, I think if she had her choice, she would not be a JW but she feels that there is no better place for her. Honestly, when she and I talked about God and the Bible last night, she sounded a lot like some of the people on this message board who have left the 'truth' and become atheists. I think she feels like she is 'going through the motions' attending meetings, going out in field service, and studying with the elder. She told me that she wanted to have a Christmas celebration this year at our house and invite my family and put presents under the tree for my daughter. Then she said, "Knowing my luck, Armegeddon will happen on the 26th and I will be destroyed." Then I said, you mean when Jesus executes judgement from heaven and sends meteorites to destroy the world, bridges will collapse, and people will be killed? She and I laughed about it but she said, yeah even though we laugh I can see that happening to me. I told her about the following cartoon.
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Dearest pjschipper...
by AGuest inmay you have peace!
because you have not made any responsive comment in issues where i have adressed you, i am thinking that perhaps we should take this particular issue to its own thread, if you will accommodate me.
in the thread entitled, "are we following men?
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garyneal
Now I just discovered something real interesting as I reread my post.
8 So those who are in harmony with the flesh cannot please God. 9 However, YOU are in harmony, not with the flesh, but with the spirit, if God’s spirit truly dwells in YOU . But if anyone does not have Christ’s spirit, this one does not belong to him. -- Romans 8:8-9 (NWT) Note that those versus come from Jehovah's Witnesses own Bible. Note how verse 9 speaks of God's spirit first then speaks of Christ's spirit in the same context. What conclusions can one draw from this verse?
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Dearest pjschipper...
by AGuest inmay you have peace!
because you have not made any responsive comment in issues where i have adressed you, i am thinking that perhaps we should take this particular issue to its own thread, if you will accommodate me.
in the thread entitled, "are we following men?
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garyneal
Wt. 4/1/06 we can see Jehovah's spirit at work... "the whole association of brothers." 2 Peter 2:17 "Honor [men] of all sorts, have love for the whole association of brothers, be in fear of God, have honor for the king." 1 Cor. 12:13 "For truly by one spirit we were all baptized into one body, whether Jews or Greeks, whether slaves or free and we were all made to drink one spirit." How can you say only the annointed have spirit?
I'm surprised you can ask that question, but lets look at what the Bible says and compare it to the Watchtower. Jesus said that you must be born again when He was speaking to Nicodemus.
"In reply Jesus declared, 'I tell you the truth, no one can see the kingdom of God unless he is born again.'" John 3:3 (NIV)
This ultimately speaks of spiritual adoption, becoming the sons and daughters of God. How do you get born again? Compare this verse:
Jesus answered, "I tell you the truth, no one can enter the kingdom of God unless he is born of water and the Spirit. 6 Flesh gives birth to flesh, but the Spirit gives birth to spirit." -- John 3:5,6 (NIV)
And what happens when you are born again of the Spirit? The following verse says:
But when the time had fully come, God sent his Son, born of a woman, born under law, 5to redeem those under law, that we might receive the full rights of sons. 6Because you are sons, God sent the Spirit of his Son into our hearts, the Spirit who calls out, "Abba, Father" -- Galatians 4:4-6 (NIV)
Therefore you must be born again of the Spirit to enter the Kingdom of God and receive the Holy Spirit. Now who according to the Watchtower who can enter the Kingdom of God? Is it the everyone or only the ones with the heavenly hope?
It is interesting that the Watchtower sometime this past year (don't know the exact month and year) published an article about the subject of being born again. I would strongly recommend that you find and read that Watchtower article and see what the society says about who can be born again. It is vitally important that you understand the consequences of not being born again because the following verse says:
8 So those who are in harmony with the flesh cannot please God. 9 However, YOU are in harmony, not with the flesh, but with the spirit, if God’s spirit truly dwells in YOU . But if anyone does not have Christ’s spirit, this one does not belong to him. -- Romans 8:8-9 (NWT)
So you see, you must be born again to get the Holy Spirit for without it you cannot become the sons and daughters of God because you do not belong to Him.
Check out this link for more details and find that Watchtower article discussing being born again to see who can be born again. If you believe you can be and / or are born again, good. If you want to ensure that you check all things, find that Watchtower article.
My fear is that you are going to be like my wife and agree with the Christian teaching until you find that it contradicts the Watchtower, then favor the Watchtower teaching instead. It is interesting to note that the society just published an article concerning the Holy Spirit. What is more interesting is how the Watchtower can teach two opposing things at once. On the one hand (in this article) they can teach that we can be guided by the Holy Spirit, but on the other hand... I will let you read that Watchtower article that talks about being born again. Compare it with the Bible and decide for yourself.
My conclusions, according to the Watchtower we can certainly be guided by the Spirit when we follow the direction of the spirit directed organization and its faithful and discreet slave. However, we can never believe that for once we can be guided by the Holy Spirit outside of His organization and apart from the faithful and discreet slave.
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Learn From A Great Teacher (repost)
by garyneal insorry for repeating myself but it appears that i placed this topic in the wrong category.
since i cannot seem to edit it or change it's category, i figured i'd repost it here where it may be more appropriate.. the watchtower publishes a book for parents to read to their children called "learn from a great teacher.
" my wife has had copies of this book for years and has read them to my little girl in the past.
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garyneal
Blue's Brothers:
Yes, that was exactly the kind of content I was concerned about. I still believe that content like this is what has my wife so spooked about celebrating Holidays, going to other churches, and other things that I do not give much thought to.
I do remember my wife reading her this book one night and she was on the topic of armeggedon. My daughter asked a lot of questions and even my wife began to realize that maybe she should not be reading this to her.
Personally, I am very concerned that their narrow propaganda will cause my daughter to have unnecessary phobias. Those comments should go on the Amazon.com website. The public needs to know. Thank you
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Congregation "Bible Study" Comments - Week Commencing 21 September 2009
by LUKEWARM in*** lv chap.
10 pp.
110-120 marriage-a gift from a loving god ***.
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garyneal
lisavegas: Good question and no offense was taken. Am I happy? I would have to say on balance, yes. I'm happy with my choice of partner. I'd like to believe she is equally happy with hers. We from time to time say things that we should not have said. It hurts us both deeply at times. I know I am trying to become better at this. I think she is too. We feed off one another. If I go to church, she goes to the hall. If I don't read the Bible, she doesn't either. She loves the Lord and so do I. She thinks I am misled, I think she is misled.
I believe God has been trying to tell me to just love her and her JW associations regardless of their views of me. Not that I didn't love them, but I think He is trying to tell me to show it by being helpful, kind, friendly, maybe arrange to do fun things with them. I don't mind if they want to discuss theology as long as it is a two way street. I think it bothers my wife that I am now starting to form an opinion about their beliefs and practices. I used to be such a 'good Bible student', she would say. That was because I would just politely listen and nod when they performed their "Bible Study." Now she says I am trying to disprove the Bible. Upon asking for a specific example to back up that claim, she gets frustrated and wants to end the conversation.
Yes, I am happy, but at the same time discouraged. What drew me to this discussion board was the fact that there were other 'interfaith' marraiges partners posting here.
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Dearest pjschipper...
by AGuest inmay you have peace!
because you have not made any responsive comment in issues where i have adressed you, i am thinking that perhaps we should take this particular issue to its own thread, if you will accommodate me.
in the thread entitled, "are we following men?
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garyneal
PJS,
I respect your convictions but you still haven't answered my question. You said in your last post, "I would have to have holy spirit direct me somewhere else."
You must understand that if you are of the earthly class with the earthly hope, you do not have the Holy Spirit guiding and directing you, you have the spirit annointed ones doing that (primarily the GB).
Are you of the annointed class?
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Jesus' Role as Mediator
by sd-7 ini just had a thought--never a good sign, right, ladies?--about jesus' role as mediator, as defined by the watchtower society.
i personally experienced a particularly interesting moment with my mother back when i first started to lose faith in the borg.
(i'm actually going to use that term, borg, now because "organization" makes me cringe every time i hear it, even when it's used at work.
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garyneal
Just as my pastor said, people who embrace error come under a spiritual blindness that only the Holy Spirit can remove.
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Dearest pjschipper...
by AGuest inmay you have peace!
because you have not made any responsive comment in issues where i have adressed you, i am thinking that perhaps we should take this particular issue to its own thread, if you will accommodate me.
in the thread entitled, "are we following men?
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garyneal
PJS,
You're a JW apologist? (Sorry for jumping in the thread like this.) The reason why I ask is because I see a contradiction.
That is why we need holy spirit. Pray for it, and the scriptures will come alive for you. I believe AllTimeJeff put it best when he asked if you were for the Holy Spirit or the Watchtower Bible and Tract Society. I just had a "Bible Study" recently concerning the baptismal questions and from the answer I got in the 2006 Watchtower (April 1st), the one thing the Jehovah's Witness do not have is the Holy Spirit (unless the Jehovah's Witness has the heavenly hope).